MR. DARGAVILLE, M.H.R., AT THE THEATRE ROYAL.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XX, Issue 6827, 4 October 1883, Page 6

MR. DARGAVILLE, M.H.R., AT THE THEATRE ROYAL.

THE SESSION AND ITS INCIDENTS. Is responseWo an advertisement convening a meeting of his constituents and others to hear Mr. J. M. Dargaville, M.H.B. for City West, at tfie Theatre Koyal, a very large number assembled last night, and at the time for commencing the house vras well filled. There was also a fair sprinkling of the fair sex amongst the audience, and on the stage were a number of gentlemen who took a keen interest in the proceedings.

' Major Br/XNS said it afforded him great pleasure to propose that Councillor Waddel take the chair at this meeting,. where they were met to hear the member for City West explain what he had done fin the past and what he proposed to do in this future.

Mr. Waddel on taking the chair was received with applause. He read thuadvertisement convening the meeting, including the requisition to Mr. Dargaville to have the meeting held in the Theatre Roj*l, and ki 3 'acquiescence. He was glad to nee such a laree response to that advertisemont. When he was waited on, and asked to accept the position and duties of Chakmin, he felt iome diffidence, but he was sure they would make his duties light by according an attentive hearing to the member lor City West At the close of the meeting any gentleman desirous of asking questions of the member could do so, and he would answer them. Without further remark, he would simply call on Mr. DargaviUe to address the meet-

fir Dargaville said: Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen,—l feel that the Chairman was quite warranted in his remark that I have reason to feel highly complimented at so Urge a meeting and such a meeting of gentlemen as I see here in response to my advertisement. This indicates to me that I was quite right in adopting the suggestion of my friends, and holding the meeting here—in this large theatre, instead of in the hall where I usually have addressed my constituents, and I thank you very much for your attendance. I am afraid, however, that the address that I am to have the honour to deliver to you will hardly be commensurate with the importance of this assemblage. I am quite sure that the length of it will bes.r' no comparison whatever to the large attendance that is here. I have one difficulty, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, to contend with in addressing you this evening, and it is this : A large portion of what I have to say to you, particularly at the outset must be in the nature of personal remarks. It is not my fault. The reason is sircply this: In Auckland at the present time the Press is all on one side. (Laughter and applause.) I unfortunately happan to be on the other side. (Laughter.) I do not for a moment mean to say that those gentlemeu who have charge of the newspapers in Auckland are not actuated by the very beat and highest motives. I am quite willing to give them credit for that. In politics all over the world everything is considered to be fair, as in love and war, and my opponents on this occasion have taken advantage of their great power here, and unfairly represented my actions and my attitude in regard to the colonial politics in Wellington. Therefore it is that I say to you that, my remarks at the outset must to some extent be of a personal character, because before we go into any general questions of policy. I wish to remove altogether from your minds any lurking prejudices that may exist there as to whether I did, or as to whether I did not, perform my duty in a straightforward and conscientious manner as your representative. (Ciieera, and a voice, "We wish everyone did the same.") When I last had the honour of addressing my constituents here, I told them that I felt some hesitancy as to what attitude I should take—as to what section of the Honae I should identify myself with— that I was entirely free and entirely independent, and when I went to Wellington I would be guided by the circumstances ther->. In face of that feeling you were good enoueh to accord me a vote of confidence shortly after 1 got to Wellington, although I still found the Opposition in the same disorganised condition in which it was during the previous session; although the so-called leader, Mr. Montgomery, had proved himself no more entitled to my loyal feeling than ever he had; although, there was no more pronounced policy than before was laid before the country by the Opposition, yet 1 was reluctant to separate myself trom them. I had a suspicion that yet my proper sphere would be found on that side of the House; and, although there was no organization, no recognised leader-although there may have been one, two, three, or six leaders—and no cohesion in the party, yet 1 felt I had found my proper place in the Parliament. Therefore, I reluctantly separated myself from them. Tbat was the position of affairs I found on my arrival in Wellington. Shortly afterward, you are aware, I became involved in a very not to put too fine a point on it—warm i controversy with the leader of the Government in that House. Before we go further, perhaps it is a3 well, seeing that Major Atkinson now occupies the honourable and distinguished position of Premier of the colony, that I ehould describe him to some extent to you, because perhaps very few of you know anything about him. That gentleman is a politician, a professional politician of IODg experience, who has been at least twenty years, and perhaps a little more, a member, and during tho greater part of that time the holder of office. He is a great favourite among the governing families-in fact, he is a relative of most of them — (laughter),—and he feels—as it appears to me and to many others—as if he had a natural and prescriptive right to govern this country, (laughter),—conscious, no doubt, as he is that the golden wings of agreat political bank envelopes, him, snrronnds him, and shields him ; conscious tbat two-thirda if not threefourths of the newspapers of the colony find it to their advantage to promote hie interests and extend hie fame (applause); conscious that the 10,000 Government employed—becanse there are no fewer than that throughont New Zealand from end to end —are at his beck and nod, and dare not go against him, openly at all events ; conscious that his connection and relationship with the long established governing families and officials have given an almost incontestable right. Feeling conscious of all these things, I say, when he stinds up in that House to defend no matter what cause or what plea, it is a daring man that will take a hostile line to him. (Applause.) I say this, that his insolence in the Hoase—and I have said it to his face, and am not telling you anything I was not garae,to say to him and his friends—(cheers)— his iosolence, his overbearing demeanour are such that members of that House —even members of Her Majesty's Opposition—hardly dare to get up and speak without doing it in fear and trembling, knowing that he is to follow them. That is the state of affairs. His weapons in that House are coarse invective and vulgar raillery. These with reasonable men at a distance may perhaps be of little weight; but ridicnle, sarcasm, raillery, and invective in that House at times make even the etouteot-hearted members feel exceedingly email indeed. I have to some extent described to you my opponent in this qcarrel. You will at once understand that mealy-mouthed sentimentalism, milk-and-water platitudes, will be wasted on such a man as that. Even the refined courtesies o£ debate when observed towards EUch a man as that would be almost as incongruous as if one were to take off one'e hat to a mastiff. • (Laughter.) Gentlemen, you know me and my proclivities ; yon know my weaknesses and failings, and it is quite right you should know my opponent in order to enable you to j arrive at a proper estimate of the merits of the case I am going to submit to you. I told you my attitude and feelings on my arrival in Wellington in regard to the relative position of parties in the House. Before I go on I think I will describe to you the nature and the functions of the Public Accounts Committee in that Parliament. There are a large number of committees wliich are called sessional committees. Each committee has its own separate duties to attend te. There are the Natives Affairs Committee, the Public Petitions Committee, the Waste Lands Committee, the Local Bills Committee, and various others.. ' These are all fiessional committees—that is to say appointed at the beginning of the session, and their period of existence is determined ipso facto by the end of the session. There is, however, one committee quite distinct from all the others called the Public Accounts Committee. Thetis recognised in this Parliament, in the British' Parliament, and in every Parliament throughout the world, so far as I know," as the: most important committee. It is a Parliamentary Committee,— tbat is to say, instead of ceasing at the «nd of the session it exists and has ita duties to perform as long as the

Parliament lasts—be it two, three, five, or ten years. The ordinary practice ia for.that committee to last as long as the Parliament.; I hope I may be permitted to say without, nattering myself, or appearing to do so in any way, that the members of that committee are selected because of their experience in reference to public affairs andl especially in reference to financial inatteni. I have the honour to be a member of that committee during the present Parliament. The duties of that committee, I must tell you, are a kind of extra audit of public accounts ; not only that, but if anything oat of the ordinary course occur in the Hoase as to the propriety or otherwise oE a particular financial transaction—the matter i» always referred to that committee to investigate and report upon. It is usual for that committee to be "set up," as it is called, almost immediately after its appointment, and carry on its duties from day to day—or anyhow, every two or three days to have a 'meeting. You will ba astonished, however, when I tell you that such an important committee as that, having sueh important duties to perform throughout the whele of one session—that is to say, the first session of the present Parliament—was never once convened, it was never called into operation, never set up by the person whose particular duty it was to call it into existence, namely, the Colonial Treasurer, Major Atkinsan. During that session of Parliament I was a novice ; it wa3 the first time you did me the honour to send me down there, and I was reluctant to press the matter forward ; but during the session, two or three times I did remonstrate with the Treasurer, and I was put off from day to day, and tho whole session passed and not once was that committee called on to perform its duty. At the outset of this last session, through myself and one or two other Opposition membera of that committio, we resolved not to be choked off, and insisted that the committee should be sot up and perform its duties, or <;lse that the matter should be explained to the House. The result was that the committee was set up, and entered upon its duties ; and, gentlemen, had I had any doubt as to what side of the House I belonged to, the disclosures made

before that committee as to the manner and administration of the Government would have decided me. Further than that, they would have at all events alienated me from the Government absolutely; and later on, when the financial statement was made, the disclosures in that would have absolutely confirmed my hostility to them; for there it was told us that although tho revenue for the past year—the ordinary revenue—was deficient, that the expenditure had exceeded it by some £160,000; that .although the permanent addition to the debt of the colony amounted to some £50,000 peranum for interest aud sinking fund on tbe million to be borrowed annually; although that increase was to take place; although the extravagant sum of £26,000 was paid to the Bank of New Zealand as commission and exchange, as compared with £6000 or £7000 in previous years ; and this £26,000 was paid for some unexplained and mysterious reason; although a sura of £600,000 or £700,000 was the average balance of the Government in the bank, to their great advantage no doubt, but to the cost of the people of this colony, at high interest. Although these things took place, and although they were stated, and although we are the most heavily burdened and severely tixed of any British community in the world ; yet in that financial statementthere is no proposal, no pretence, no semblance whatever of the slightest intention either to retrench or to reduce the expenditure. So far from that being the case we are simply told it will be necessary for us—us, the people—not the Civil Servants, not the Government employe's—it will be necessary for us to cut our coats according to our means, to observe the goad old plan of living within our income, in order that we may be able to do what ? To pay an additional tax, an income tax of a farthing in tho pound, representing from £80,000 to £100,000, which is what the Colonial Treasurer wishss to impose upon us. (Applause.) By the time I got to the end of that financial statement, if anyone had come to me and said, " What side of the House do you belong to, Dargaville?" I would have answered him in the language of that Hibernian who recently arrived in the States, and who, when asked by someone what political party he favoured, said without hesitation, " I am against the Government." (Laughter.) There was no opportunity at tfcat particular juncture to discuss the financial statement, but later on, when the property tax was before the House, I took the opportunity of relieving my feelings. (Laughter.) It may be that I spoko warmly,—l believe I did, — and so far from being sorry, I am rather pleased than otherwise. (Cheers.) I think, perhaps, I might not have had so large a meeting here this evening if I had gone to work in a. mealy-mouthed way. (A Voice : Speak your mind, no matter what you do.) I spoke my mand on that occasion. It was my second speech in Wellington. I made one the session before. I went straight home to the root of the matter at once—(A Voice : Quite right)—and indicated not only the reasons why I objected to the policy I of the Government, but I had the temerity to express my opinions as to the motives that influeced them. There was the rub. I did not say, probably it will be found so-and-so is th» ease; or, in my opinion, eo-and-so is the case; but after thinking fthe matter over for weeks, after reading up the prosancl cons, after carefully studying and turning it over in my mind, and being con. vinced that soand-so was the case, I said, so-and-so is the case, and I will prove it. (Cheers.) I said, amonest other things, that the great governing powers cif this colony were in the hands of a few ; that tho present Government and their friends were actuated by a desire not to benefit the country at large, but to benefit their immediate friends and supporters. I said that for years the various acts of legislation, and the various financial operations and schemes of taxation,—l said, you have done all these things in the interests of the few, and not for the good of the many. (Cheers.) Amongst other things, I referred to tho consolidation of tho provincial loans in 1867, when an Act ■yas passed at the instigation of certain persons whose head-quarters are in Auckland, — an Act was pasised at their instigation which imposed additional burdens on the country, but put large sums of money,—£loo,ooo if not £200,000—into the pockets of those gentlemen. I explained that so grateful were they, ajiid so thoroughly did they appreciate this act on the part of their friends and supporters and advisers, that they wera enabled to pay £10,000 to the gentlemen who were instrumental ia carrying it through. (Cheers.) I said that, and a number of other things, and presently sat down, and went into the lobbies. I had not been in the lobby many minutes, before I began to feel, exceedingly pleased with myself, and as proud as I had ever felt in my life, because Opposition members and Government supporters followed me out, and took me by the hands, and said : " Darpaville, you have hit tho nail on the head: We are with you ; our hearts are with you. It is the first time that the Government have been tackled in this House as you have tackled them." (Cheers.) That was very gratifying to a young politician. However, after the dinner adjournment, the leader of the House got up. A cloud was on his brow, the sound of war was in his tone— combat, resolution, defiance. After a long and violent spuech, he said that I dare not move for a Seleut Committee to prove what ' I insinuated. Presently he sat down. I got up and said : "Mr. Speaker,—l &ccopt with great pleasure the honourable gentleman's challenge!, and I shall take the earliest opportunity of moving for a Select Committee, composed fairly of members of both sides of the House, to inquire into this matter. (Applause,) I immed intely put a notice on the order paper for the first private members' day. I wrote that notice of motion out, and walked up to the Speaker's chair with it. I passed the Government Benches, which are on the right hand of the Speaker, and as I was pa33irjg, Major Atkinson said to me rather too loud: "I will see you don't get that motion on. It is on a piece with the whole of your conduct throughout the matter." (A Voice: Shame.) I turned round to him, and spoke loud enough for his colleagues and the reporters in the gallery overhead to hear—but not very loudly. I said: " I am the wrong man for you to bully—(loud cheers) —you must try that with somebody else." An account of that little episode you have seen in the papers. It shows what his views and intentions were. My notice of motion was to thie effect:—To move on such a day for the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into the circumstances under which toe sum of £10,000 wbei paid by the Bank of New Zealand to Memsrs. Whitaker and Russell, or either of them, in connection with the passage of certain Bills through this House in or about the year 1367. I should think that this was definite enough and

clear enough. I assumed that that was the particular matter in my speech" which had stung the Treasurer. I was fairly entitled to assume that it could not be the ordinary general charges of political corruption which are bandied from mouth to mouth in the House on almost every occasion when an Opposition member gets up to speak against the Government. I was quite prepared to. go into the charges I made—l have been always, and am now. (Applause.) But my notice of motion never say daylight. The Treasurer brought forward a notice of motion in self-defence, or defiance apparently, appointing a Select Committee of his own choosing to enquire into hia own and his colleague's conduct, and into certain allegations which he himself had prepared. It is, as I said in the House, the same as if a prisoner charged with an offence were to say, I will appoint the jndge and the iury; I will frame the indictment; and then ask that it shall be decided whether lam guilty or not guilty. The circumstances were exactly similar, except with this aggravation that the colleague of the accused person in this instance happened to a wise and experienced lawyer, (Hear, hear.) Therefore, yon will at once see that the result of such a trial as that, absolutely valueless, no matter what the evidence may be, the point to arrive at is this—not guilty, the accused leaves the Court without a stain upon his character. My . committee was entirely set aside and also my accusation. The other committee was appointed. All this time, I wish you to understand, I was repsatedly receiving overtures from the Government side of the House. They said to me: "This matter ought to be dropped ; withdraw ; express the slightest regret; we do not want to be bothered with it; we do not want to waste the time of the House and country. The Government whip, Government supporters, and members -of the very Select Committee that were appointed, said to me : " Dargaville, if you are wrong, why haven't you the manliness to come forward and say it ?" Well, gentlemen, I did not feel that I was in the wrong. I do not feel now that I was wrong. I felt that you sent me there to do my duty. I should be sorry to rake up these unpleasant matters. But I was there as your representative. I had taken an oath hefore that House that I would perform my duty, and I was determined to do it. (Cheers.) Feeling that I was right, I could not and I would not either express regret or withdraw a single word. Then comes the question whether I should acknowledge a Select Committee appointed by my opponents—consisting professedly of foui . Government supporters and three members on the Opposition side of the House. The four Government supporters were indeed Government supporters. They were like myself—thorough. (Laughter and cheers.) The three Opposition members however, did not belong to my party—in fact, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, my party is called " The Dargaville Party." (Laughter.) It consists of " one." (Laughter and cheers.) There are two or three other parties in the House. But at all events, it is well known to the Southern section of the Opposition, that I had. persistently refused to acknowledge Mr. Montgomery as my leader in that House. I wanted as my leader in that House a better man than myself—a man who should be bold, vigilant, staunch to his friends, and uncompromising to his foes. When I find such a man in Parliament he shall be my leader, andnocuntilthen (Cheers.) Well, then there was Mr. Mauandrew, who is really Mr. Montgomery's mentor (a laugh), and there was also Mr. Steward, who is the whip for the other two. These then were the three gentlemen appointed Oα that Select Committee, in addition to the fonr Government supporters. Such was the jury which was to find whether the Treasurer was guilty or Dot guilty. I was asked whether I would appear before the committee—whether, as they call it, I would deny "the jurisdiction of the Court." I answered: "I shall do nothing that can be considered cowardice or flinching. I shall go before the committee, even though constituted as it is." I went before them. Day by day pasied for several days before anything was doi:e. I think it was ten days after the appointment of the committee that the first regular meeting was held for business. All this time I had received overtures in terms like these—" Dargaville, let the matter drop—apologise—withdraw—express even the slightest regret, and nothing more will be said about it." Well, I did not feel inclined to do that. I appeared before that committee for this reason—that, no matter what its decision might be, no matter what report they might briug up, I would have an opportunity of placing on record certain evidence—no matter how the committee might construe it according to their ideas—which should go before the House itself in the first instance, and before the people of the whole colony afterwards, and I should then ask whether or not I was warranted in saying that that transaction, to which I referred, was a corrupt and an illegal one. (Cheers.) I had a Urge number of charges to prefer, but one only at that time could be dealt with. By good generalship, it would appear, on the part of the committee, my action was so circumscribed that 1 could only have one charge thoroughly investigated, and reported upon before the prorogation. It was, therefore only at the very last moment of the session that the matter could be brought up. for discussion in the House. The charge I began with was this one—"that the Government lent a sura of £22,500 of the trust funds of the colony, over which the Treasurer had control, to the Bank of New Zealand, without security, for a term of years, in a manner not contemplated by law, by which action undue advantages were given to one of tho banking establishments in the colony, and closely allied with the present Administration," and further, "that Parliament has not been informed of this transaction." Such was tho first allegation, as it was called. The evidence of course, in my opinion, conclusively established that charge. I am not going to ask you, on such an occasion as this, to follow me in wading through the whole of it. I shall restrict myself to one or two salient points in connection with it. Having done so I shall then ask you to jurlge whether or not the decision of that Select Committee was warranted. You must know that there is an express provision by law for the investment of trust funds, viz., the accumulations of Government Savings Banks, amounting to one million and five or six hundred thousand pounds; the moneys of the Insurance Department, amounting to £600,000 or £700,000 more. Clause 20 of the Public Revenues Act of 1878 expressly provides the manner in which such moneys should be inveatcd. I shall read you this clause. It is as follows:—"All securities for public moneys so invested (i.e., by authority of an Order in Council), and all securities held by or on behalf of the Commissioned of the Public Debt Sinking Funds, the Postmaster-General, the Government Insurance Commissioner, or the Publio Trustee, shall be held in the joint custody of the Audit Office, the Secretary to the Treasury, and one or other of the abovementioned officers, and shall be secured under three keys, one of which shall be held by_ each of the officere having custody of the said securities. All such securities shall be inspected by the officers in whose custody they are, or by three officers of their respective departments on their behalf, at least once in each year, and a return of all the securities found on such inspection shall be laid before Parliament within 30 days after the opening of each session." On that clause I spoke as follows :—" That is the provision made by law for the investment of these moneys, and the terms of which have in no respect been complied with either by the Treasurer or Commissioner in this matter. Tnere has been no Ordor-in-Cauncil authorising the investment. No return laid before Parliament. Nor have the securities been held in the custody of the throe officers required by law to hold them. Mr. Luckie, however, in his evidence, claimed to rest hie authority for the investment of these moneys on clduse 10 of this Act, which I will now read, aud I will leave honourable gentlemen to infer whether this clause authorises him or the Treasurer to do what they have done. It says: " Moneys received under any Act for the time being in force relating to the Governmant Insurance and Annuities, together with all iotest accuring from such money?, shall be deemed to be publio moneys within the meaning of this Act, and shall, anything in any such first-mentioned Act notwithstanding, be kept in a separate account at the bautc, called ' The Government Insurance Account, 1 which x ehall be operated on only by cheque of the Government Insurance Commissioner, counter-signed by the Controller and Auditor-General." Under that clause the Commissioner claimed that he was entitled to take this balance whatever it might be and lend it for any term of years without security to the bank. But the opinions of the law officers of the Crown were dead against him. Anybody will see who has any correct ideas on this

subjects-that this is a provision for operating on the account in thetraneaction of ordinary business, in the same Way as in every joint stock bank provision io made to anthorise certain peraons to sign cheques 'or make disbursements. On a "provision such as that the Treasurer, with the Commissioner of Insurance at his back, pretended that he felt warranted to lend a quarter of a million v of money, locking it up in the bank without any security whatever to the public. (A voice : Shame.) I told you that I would not go into the evidence, but I will now read to you tbe opinions of "law officers of the Crown," namely, Mr. Stout, late Attorney-General, and Mr. W. S. Reid, the present Solicitor-General, on this particular matter. This is it, and let me tell yon that it is an opinion which the Treasurer must have known at the time he consented to make this loan and when he authorised the Commissioner of Insurance to make the above statement. The Treasurer must have had it in his possession, for it is dated as far back as 1873. This loan was made in the present year 1883. Here is the opinion of the law officers : —" We are clearly of opinion that, where an Act specifies a particnlar mode of investment there is no power to go outside its terms. JEven where a general power of investment is given, we do not think placing money on fixed deposit at a bank could be termed 'investment.'" I therefore say that here is an express and distinct opinion of the' highest authority that these moneys were lent in a manner not contemplated by law. (Cheers.) I might have gone further and said that they were lent in violation of law, and in disregard of law. Seeing, however, that 1 would have to establish my case, step by step, by evidence, I thought I would go as far as necessary, and not any further. But what happened? When this dispute between myself and the Treasurer was going on, Major Atkinson went again to the Solicitor-General and asked him for an opinion on the same subject. I do not know what particular object tbe Treasurer bad in view. He might have thought that Mr. fieid, although an eminent legal gentleman, might, as others have done, altered his previous views? There is auoh a thing as very competent authority altering' its views to suit gentlemen in the position of Treasurer. But on this occasion Mr. JReid was impervious to any such overture if it were made to him. On the 27th of August last, while my dispute with the Treasurer was, going on, the Treasurer endeavouring to get" some means of explaining the matter away again, got an opinion from the Solioi-tor-General. Here it is :—"Fixed deposits in a bank are usually made upon a voucher signed by the person making deposit, in exchange for which he gets a receipt from the bank, stating the period of deposit, rate of interest, &c. Both these documeuts must be looked at and read together to see what is the actual contract; but, as in the present case, there is no legal authority for making such a contract." That is dated 27th August, 1883, notwithstanding the Select Committee—a very Select Committee indeed, I must not call them a " packed" committee, because tho Speaker, when I made use of the word "packed" in the House, called me to order. It was the first time in Parliament that I was eo called, and t withdrew the word. If I had said a " picked" committee, I might be in order, being strictly within the meaning of the description of this very "select committee," nominated by the Treasurer and his majority. (Cheers.) While some members were asking me to withdraw the matter, there were many others who suggested a fairer committee, composed, say, of members of both sides of the House, and they expressed the opinion that such a committee should have been appointed. Well," after some time the committee came to its finding. That said that " Dirgaville failed to substantiate his allegation, and that there was no foundation for it." The report was laid on the table of the House. Presently it came up for decision, and the House adopted it. No, not the House, I decline to put such an affront upon the House as to say so. A section of the House adopted it— the Government supporters adopted it. In my speech on this subject, a portion of which 1 will take the liberty of reading to you—although speaker after speaker got up and said, " Wo do bpg and trust that the hon. member for Auckland City West will put an end to this painful business ;" "Even if he will express the slightest regret, and withdraw his charge ;" " We hope he will enable us to proceed;" " The eyes of the country are upon us ;" "It makes us contemptible;" "We will be the laughing stock of the colony." Yet Government supporters and even Ministers, at an earlier stage got up and said that what I had said was an "outrage" on their principles; that their dignity was insulted, and it was necessary that either Mr. Dargavilloshould be expelled the House —or the Ministry would resign. I accept this result.. (Loud cheers.) However, gentlemen, as the matter proceeded the evidence was piled up, and these views became considerably toned down. At last I was requested by g> well known political gentlemau to express the .slightest regret and apologise " so far as I could conscientiously do so?' My reply was that I epoke uuder a strong conviction that I was right. I have that conviction now, and I have performed my duty. No more, no less. (Cheers.) I said further, " You have a majority in this House; do ss you like with me." These are the exact words used in Parliament, and assuredly I am not going to be debarred from expressing my opinion on this or any other matter through the fear of a Select Committee appointed by my opponents. If that is to be so I would not give much for the liberty of the people of this country a few years hence, seeing that it can only result in silencing all expression of opinion whatever in that House." (Cheers.) £ told them that if they stopped with that report I would regard their act as an act of pusillanimity." I said, "Let them declare the seat of the member for Auckland West vacant, and then I should have a fair tribunal to appeal to." (Cheers.) I said they had the very dregs of the Government supporters there that night. Those only were there whom the Treaeurer could compel to stop behind. I challenged and dared the Treasurer to declare the seat for Auckland City West vacant. I reminded them of what the colony had suffered by means of public works and money grants—maladministration and gross favouritism in clandestine native land transactions, and the politically corrupt proceedings of tho present Government. I refused to withdraw a single word, and I absolutely refused to express regret. I concluded by saying, " But, Sir, as for the decision of the Government party now in the House, consisting of some twenty or thirty members of their strongest partisans from out of a House of ninety-five members, let them, impelled by gratitude for past favours, and a lively sense of favours to come, at the bidding of their leader, adopt this wretched report, if they so will, but I shall treat any such act of theirs with the contempt that it deserves." The reason I have read from that speech is because I am here to explain my views, and I can do it in no other way than by referring to the Hansard reports. The division took place. It was made a party question. Members were not allowed to vote on the merits of the question itself. Government supporters were required to vote with the Government. Even in the case of absent Government supporters had their rights disregarded. The Government whips insisted on the Opposition members furnishing themselves with pairs. When the matter came at last to the time for division, I said to a friend, a member of the Opposition, " Let us show our contempt of the action of tbe Government in the most emphatic way we can; let us leave the House in a body. I spoke to Sir G. Grey on the subject, and it was agreed that should be done ; but it was necessary, according to Parliamentary practice, that two members should remain behind to take the division. Every othei; member of the Opposition but these two walked out of the House. And the division list should ever be regarded as one of the most remarkable in the colony, showing 29 for the Government to 2 oc the other side, of which two Dargaville was one. (Cheers.) Let me analyse this division for you: there are five Ministers in the majority, which [reduces the number to 24; thero were fourteen or fifteen gentlemen pecuniarily interested in the Bank of New Zealand and the Loan Company ; some five or six were gentlemen who had several thousand substantial reasons on behalf of their constituents for voting for the Government, and two or three had ambitions expectations of the vacant portfolio for the Minister of Agriculture. (Laughter and cheers). I now think you will agree with me that 1 was warranted in saying that only the " dregs" of the Government supporters were in the House. But most of you are probably not aware, notwithstanding the finding of the Select Committee and the adoption of its report by the House, notwithstanding that the Treasurer repu-

diated the idea of doing anything wrong, that a little bird told him thao the legality or the illegality of this transaction would be tested in the Supreme Court; that legal opinion had already been taken upon the subject; and that these legal opinions were very distinct in their character. What did he do.? In the very last hours of the session, on the very last clay, almost at the last boar in which business was to be done in that House, he (the Treasurer) by the force of his majority brought in a Bill, hurried it through its first, second, third reading, and pissed it, legalising tbe whole transaction. I do not ask you to acceptmy statement for this. I have the Bill in my hand. I shall read this particular clause. The second clause (marginal note) provides that trnst funds may be deposited ia banks. It is in effect: —" Deposits of moneys for a fixed period with an incorporated bank carrying on business within the colony shall be deemed security within the meaning of the section of the aforesaid Act (1878). wherein any money in the said section mentioned may be in vested." There i« an Act passed in the last hours of the session to give force and effect to a law for covering and whitewashing the Treasurer for hia misdeeds m this respect, notwithstanding the report of his Select Committee. While all this was going on one of the Auckland newspapers came out regularly. I may tell you at once that I am more afraid of a newspaper than I am of a Treasurer, Premier, or anyone elae. No one knows, until he has become a public man, the terror which the Press has for him, I am ambitious, and hope to be a public man—l trust, a useful public man. I know I never can become so if I have the unrelenting hostility of the Press. But I have not been used fairly by the two Auckland papers. But I eay now that I forgive them. (Laughter and cheers.) Specially do I forgive the Star for their manly way of writing about the vacant portfolio. I have no doubt it will tell you in some time to come what an excellent Minister Dargaville would make. (Loud laughter and cheers.) Before I go on to the next part of my address I will tell you of a circumstance which occurred when coming up the other day in the Waihora. I obtained from the library of the ship a book called the " Life of Garfield," the late President of the United States. Amongst other things I came across this passage in his life. He had been doing something similar to what I have been doing (laughter), and he had to appear before a number of delegates, who were or were not to nominate him again for a seat in Congress. When he went upon the platform the delegates expected to hear an apology from him, but instead he boldly defended his course and gave the reason for his action, adding, "I have nothing whatever to retract, and I cannot change my honest convictions for the the a.ike of a seat in Congress. I have great respect for the opinions of my constituent?, but I have greater regard for my own conscience. If I can serve you as an independent representative, acting upon my own judgment and convictions, I would be glad to do so, but if not, I don't waot your nomination, I prefer to be an independent private citizen." (Cheers.) Gentlemen, these words, as you may suppose, went straight to my heart. I immediately determined to get a copy of that book, and read that passage to my constituents. No;v, what happened? Why, the delegates unanimously resolved to nominate General Garfield ; and I have no doubt that at the next general elections, when I present myself to you again for City West a eimilar resolution will follow. (Cheers.) Now, I have done with that matter as between myself and Major Atkinson. I will now come to the Public Works Committee. Certain disclosures . were made which revealed an improper state of things. Tho word "improper " is a mild word. In reference to insurance matters an extraordinary transaction took place. Mr. Hutchison, one of the Wellington members, had given notice for a return of the moniea paid in salaries, commissions, &c, to the employee of the Insurance department. It was notorious that Mr. Thorna was 'enjoying an income of something like £3000, while subordinate officials were very badly paid indeed. Before that return was produced, knowing that Parliament was about to deal with the matter, what happened ? Mr. Luckie, the Commiuaioner, who was at the head of the Department, deliberately entered into a contract with Mr. Thome, his colleague, extending Mr. Thorne'e engagement for a period of 2J years from that date. To all persone who reflect upon this, it will appear something outrageous. There is the Parliament of the country about to put its finger upon and remedy a gross abuse, and yet an official, under the sheltering aegis of the Treasurer, who was the supreme head. of the Department, and in defiance of the obvious intention of Parliament, exercises his power to perpetuate that very wrDng which Parliament was about to grapple with. Well, the Public Accounts Committee had that matter up amongst other things, and prepared a report to submit to the House, but the Treasurer came down to the House and hearing of the matter, he got a resolution passed prohibiting the Public Accounts Committee front laying that report on the table. I see the chairman of that committee here tonight, and I expect him," when addressing his constituents, in the faithful performance of his duty to corroborate every word of what I have told yon now. (Cheers.) We find also that the Controller-General was perfectly right in the letters he had sent to the House protesting against the illegal transaction of withdrawing, by imprest, £192,000 without lawful warrant fop so doing, and the manner in which the sum of £18,000 had been dealt with, it having been paid into the account of the Minister for Public Works inetead of into the public account. On these things the Public Accounts Committee had also prepared reports, but they were absolutely expunged and prevented from being brought before the House. You will remember an elaborate report in the Herald of what was described as an unfair report brought up by myself and Mr. Barron in reference to this particular transaction. Now, the Public Accounts Committee consisted of ten peraons—fonr Opposition members, five Government members, and the Chairman. The five Government members, including three Ministers, of course voted to declare that the Controller was too officious and need not have interfered in matters of that kind. The Opposition members said, We insist that the Controller was performing his duty. We were outvoted, however, and a report brought up. Another meeting was called to place on record the opinion of the Ministry, and it was resolved " that the evidence taken yesterday on the charge brought against the Treasurer showed clearly that the law had been broken., and the decision then arrived at by the committee was only carried on division by six to four, and there voted three Ministers who were practically on their defence. The committee desire to record their disagreement with the decision reported to the House,, as it was not warranted by the facts disclosed." That was the effort of a weak, minority to inform the House and the country of what was going on. But directly the report was brought up in the House Major Atkinson got wind of it, and said : " I object to this. An unfair advantage has been taken, and I move that the report, without being read, be referred back to the committee." Of course he carried it. He can carry anything in that House. He has now a majority of twelvo or fifteen, so you know that when that report was referred back it was done by Major Atkinson and his majority. Every record of these transactions —these insurance transactions—which I have mentioned to you, is absolutely expunged. On the motion of Major Atkinson, the committee —a thing withoutprecedentin any Parliament in the world. In the middle of our work we were annihilated, our proceedings expunged and cancelled, and a new committee will be appointed at tho beginning of the next session to begin the work de novo. The object of this was to prevent the House and the country being informed, and I don't know but what I am committing a breach of privilege in telling you what I have, (Laughter.) But there are no secrets between you and me, though whatever I tell you must be regarded in the strictest confidence. (Renewed laughter.) I find I have talked to you for an hour, but I have not half finished yet. ("Go on.") However, I will be brief. Certain Acta were passed during the session—not many, and only few of general interest. The Bankruptcy Act will be exceedingly useful to the trading community. There are one or two objectionable features in it, but it passed. One of these objectionable features is that it favours the creditors and places the debtor at a disadvantage, and throws the cost of prosecuting a , debtor upon the country instead of upon the creditors. The Charitable Gifts Exemption Act ,waa' another Act which passed, the object of which is to exempt charitable gifts from the payment of 10 per cent. duty. That wait introduced by Sir

G. Grey, and carried through both Bouses, and is now law. (Cheers.) Another Act of interest to us here is the Federation and Annexation Act, which provides that any of the peoples of the Pacific Islands may, if so disposed, become confederated with tho colony of New Zealand. Another Act of interest to all of you is called the Auckland Additional Loan Act, by which £200,000 is authorised to be borrowed by the Borough Council. The ratepayers were appealed to, and thsre was no very stroogobjeotion to it, and therefore I was not warranted in offering any opposition to it, and therefore it became law. (Laughter, at which the hon. member seemed somewhat perplexed, and held a conanltatjon with the Chairman.) Well, the Chairman has given me the cue, bat I really don't see where the joke cornea in. (Renewed laughter.) The hon. member then proceeded to review several of the other measures passed during the aession or introduced, and continued :—At the eloae of the session three policy Billi were laid on the table. They were these :—The National Insurance Bill of Major Atkinson, Legislative Council Reform Bill, and the Railways Improved Land Bill. These are the three Bills which indicate to the people of this country what the future intentions of the Government are. Take the Legislative Council Reform Bill. That provides that the Counoil shall be elective, the North Island electing eleven members of the South Island ths eame number. I object to the Bill, and will do what I can to defeat it. I think the constituencies are too large. What man, except a very prominent and wealthy man, would be elected by such an enormous constituency as the North Island ? He wonld j require at the least 15 or 20 newspapers at his back. Another objection I have to the Bill.is the length of time (ten years) for which members arc elected. Tea years is too long. It is wonderful when a man is elected how independent he becomes of his constituents if his term of office is a long one. When elected for three years only, he is extremely anxious, as I am now, to please his constituents. But put a man in for ten years and he can perform such antics as would make the angels weep. (Laughter.) With regard to the Railways Improved Lands Bill, it provides that the land benefitted by the construction of a new railway may be taxed to pay interest and working expenses of the new line, but it altogether ignores the lands benefitted by the construction of existing lines. I think that a most unfair thing. I don't see why those who have been benefitted by railways already constructed should be allowed to go scot free. As to the Insurance Bill, I think Major Atkinson has a good deal of hardihood in submitting it as a policy Bill in the manner he has dope. I am satisfied that' the intention of it is to relieve property and wealth of its due obligations, and to impose a burden upon the rest of the community. It provides this : that a msn, no matter how humble his position in life, he and his sons and daughters will have to contribute towards the charitable-aid institutions of the country in the future in exactly the same proportion as the millioonaire There is no distinction. The very men who are now enacting laws in this country to enrich the rich and cheapen labour, and thereby keep down the poor, are to be relieved of their natural and ordinary responsibility to the community, and that responsibility is to be placed upon the shonlders of those who are least able to bear it. (Shame.) That is my opinion of the Bill, which I hope will never be law in this country. (Cheers.) I say at once that the present administration is not satisfactory. I see in the hands of a few people a wealthy oligarchy. I see in their hands the power to influence the legislation of this country. They can not only regulate the legislation but the taxation, they can control the financial operations, the borrowings of this country, they can regulate the expenditure, the rate at which these monies shall be expended on public works, an<i the direction in which they are to be carried out. We have this influence in the hands of a few people, and, therefore, abuses are constantly arising, and dissatisfaction and discontent exist in every part of the colrJny. I have recently been South, and they are as much dissatisfied there as wo here. I have come to this conclusion, that the present form of government is not the best adapted to the requirements of this country. (Cheers.) I think, in order to prevent separation, which I cannot but regard as a misfortune, a public misfortune should it ever occur, it is absolutely necessary that some reform of the constitution should take place. For instance, what sympathy have the people of Otago or Canterbury with the people of Auckland? What do we care or know about the proposed Otago central line of railway, to cost 'two millions, or what do they in Otago care about the Auokland-Taranaki railway? Nothing at all. There is no united, healthy public opinion to guide, and govern, and control pnblic matters of that kind under the present form of government. What, therefore, is the way out of this difficulty ? I think that, in matters relating to either of these Islands, the people of that particular Island should alone have the control. (Cheers.) I think there ought to be what is called political autonomy for each of the two Islands, with a central Government in WeWngton having charge of all matters of geueial colonial con -em—?uch matters, for instance, as tho public debt, the administration of Justice, external and internal defence, customs revenue, marriage laws, bankruptcy laws, and matters of that kind, which are of i j qual interest to the two Islands. I tSink that the island governments should have the control of their own railways and telegraphs, own main roads, own public schools, gaols, hospitals, harbonrs, charitable aids, and all matters of that kind. ["That's provincialism again."] It is not provincialism. If you have this, public opinion will be brought to bear directly upon the administration of the • Government, economy will be insured and the power will be taken out of the hands of the few men who now exercise it. The newspapers in Auckland are onlystrong and pronounced when Auckland is before them. It is the same way all over the colony. Any Government composed as the present is of designing politicians, anxious to perpetuate their power, can keep themselves in office, as this Government has kept itself in office, by playing off one district against another. At present you are treated with disdain and contempt. You are looked upon as followers of the present Government. Both your newspapers are Government organs. The great powers that are supposed to influence Auckland are tho adherents and supporters of this Ministry. Why should the Govornment give a portfolio to one of your representatives ? It is not necessary; they have got you without it. Ido hops that this idea which I have shadowed forth will •be carefully thought over, and that it will gain ground. Our best chance is to have the government of the North Island here. (Cheers.) Wβ want our railway to Taranaki and to Hawke's Bay, and we want certain local industries established, but there is little likelihood of our obtaining any of these things, at least for a long time, tinder the present form of government. I think we have a grand future before us if we wake up and make it ours, but if we are to depend upon the Government in Wellington, and place ourselves at the mercy of the South, Auckland will continue to be deprived of her just rights. I hop-! this idea will take hold of your minds, and that you" will see the propri6ty of considering whether or not it is desirable that tiiese Islands should manage their own local affairs, in order that we may insist upon some modicum of justice being meted out to us. (Cheers.)

Questions were then invited. An elector wished to know if Mr. Dargaville was in favour of the abolition of the Upper House ? The hon. member replied taat he was not, as the Upper House exercsed a necessary and salutary check to hasty or illconsidered legislation in the Lower House. He was next asked whether the £225,000 which remain in the Bank of New Zealand would be effected by the failure of the bank, and who iu that case would have CO refund it ? Mr. Dargaville said he would learn with regret of the contingency here indicated occurring, but in that ense tho loss would fall upon the taxpayers of the country.—The next and last question was :—"Do you think Major Atkinson would give you a portfolio in the forthcoming?" (Laughter.) Mr. Dargaville : Well, I don't think so, until perhaps time has converted him to a proper frame of mind and healed the wounds that have been inflicted in the recent conflict.

Mr. C. MgMasters then moved, "That Mr. Dargaville deserves the best thanks and confidence of his constituents and of the colony for his action in the House last session, especially for his unflinching advocacy oE the right of free speech for tho representatives of the people." Mr. J. B, Gbah&ii seconded the resole-, tion, but aa the Chairman waa about tc put

it to tbe meeting the firebtlls ranT?,* W large number rose and homed &*** L^ bnildiDg, thereby causing great co»? . tte &£ When comparative order h^been^ loß - P **•■ carried unanimously. • ""« -■$ A vote of thanksto the Chairman bronsU : '- the proceedings to a doss. ;• 4Uo gnt f^