AUCKLAND PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

New Zealand Herald, Volume V, Issue 1307, 24 January 1868, Page 3

AUCKLAND PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

THURSDAY, JANUARY 23. The .Speaker took thi> Chair at 3 o'clock. Present —ihe Provincial Solicitor, Meedrs. Dignnn, Buckland, Curleton, Hunter, S'waneon, Sheeliun, C arke, JtCerr, Macro, Ball, Orcighton, Nicholaon, Taylor, Dacre. The minutes of the previous sitting were read and confirmed. HABBOB BEGULATTONS. —MANUKAU. Dr. Kichoiscin asked the Provincial Secretary, If there is any reason for not supplying the Havbour Master of Onehunga with copies of the " Harbour Regulation?" for distribution to masters of vessels trading there ? 2. Jf any alterations have been made, or directions other than those published in the Auckland Provincial Gazette, for October 27, 1866, have been authorised in reference the signalling of vessels entering and leaving the Manukau. The Provincial Secretary said that harbour regulations were ccmpiieed within the provisions of tlio - ( .ct f.f lSl'2, by the Governor in Council, and the Marine Act of 1806. A new code of regulations had been prepared and forwarded to Wellington for the

information of the Groverriment, ; and an arrangement had %een made by the Government, to havo drawn up jteneral.harbour regulations for all the harbours in the -colony,' and a conference of harbour masters was agreed upon. Captain Burgess had been appointed to represent the Auckland harbors at the conference, and a letter had been received from him to the effect that having to confer with Mr. Balfour, he oould not leave Wellington before tho 22nd. Mr. Cbbighton said that certain returns ho had moved for had not been sent down, to the officers retained in the service of the Provinoial Government, aleo with respect to the Native Land Purchase Department. The Provincial Skcretakt said that he could not 6ay what officers would be retained until the estimates "were discussed; as to the officers at preeent employed, they wore only temporary. As to the Native Purchase Department there had boen a tabulated statement prepared by Mr. J. White. THE DAVY-CANJETON BPSOIitTTIONS. Adjourned debate on the amendment proposed to be made to the question—" That in the opinion of this Council, in order to ensure the better working of the existing system of Local Government in the Provinco of Auckland, it is essential,—that the system of representation bo amended and re-adjusted,— And which amendment was to leave out the words after the word " Council " to the word "essential" inclusive, in order to insert tho following instead thereof:— "The form of Government now existing in tho Provinco of Auckland ought not to be continued." Mr. Sheehan said that if the hon. niembor for th 6 Bay Imd been an honost man ho would have opposed estimates with which ho did not agreo. Ho thought the presont was not tho time for opposition to the Pnvince when the Province was reduced to the greatest straits. It should bo the object of every one to assist nnt to injuro the Province by hon. members "barking" at each other from opposite sides of the House. He would support the resolution of tho hon. member i'orMarsden. Colonel Peacock thought there could bo no elaborating the importance of the quostion undor discussion. He hoped tho Oouucil would not be frightened by words. The docision would rest upon the answer to the question whether Provineial Instiiutiom were a benefit to tho wholo Provinco. llu hud long held tho opinion, which ho did not hesitate to express, that tli e present form of Government ought not to continue. If ho wero told he was a. hireling, ho we >i hireling long beforo any such question was thought of. Ho had the greatest confidence in the adniinistrativo ability of tho present Superintendent. It was not that ho attributed blame to any particular persons, but the causes wero applicable to tho whole colony. Ho believed Provincial Institutions to be positively injurious ; their effect was to cut up the English populations into so many tribes. He was convinced that this country eould nevov enter into the oommunity of nations until its people became not Aucklandites, or nny other " ites," but New Zculander.*, nnd unlil their rivalries wore included in tho emulation of art, science, and trade. JLet t\iero bo a consolidation of Government as well as revenue, so that the solidarite of tho colony might bo effected . It was a shame to set up intertribuf jealomiee such as the antipathies of towns. WIM could be expected from co-equal elective persons but discofd. Time was when a nominated Superintendent might have pievonted some of the difficulties, but* that time had passed—that time had gone for erer. Tho public mind had gons far beyond that —it had discovered that n local legislature was o. cumbersotno and insufficient machine. Men saw that it is administration tho Province wants, and not legislation. The Provincial Lezislfttu o had a direct evil inlluencft upon the Seneral legislature, for the arena of tho Aesembly was occupied by a hydm-heade-.l monster, each member not tho representative of New Zealand, but bitllin« for isolated interests. ITo w:n gl.id thut tho time had como wliou thero would be u ro:U Parliament of Now Zealand, and ho thought it would in futuro tirno bo counted as nn honour to those who had brought that about. Tho result will Iβ all tho letter, because of having got rid of a fundamental incongruity. Mr. Digxax did not wish to givo a silent voto on tho quostion. r J.ho Provinco of Auckland was the first to avail itself of constitutional government in New Zealand, though it migVit not Itavo beon productive of the greatest amount of benefit; but whatever rai"ht havo been the degree, to which it fell short there WB9 another question which was equally ft part of.'thoj constitution, that the representatives hid a right to consult, their constituents beforo they presumed to betray thoir interests, and he (Mr. Dignan) would not hand over the trust reposed in him to any but to thoeo from wli-.m he had received it. It wus an orrorto supposa that the handing over tho Provinco to the Genoral Government would introduce that great system of English Parliamentary Government. So far as Auckland was concerned, sho would be under an Irinh eystem —she would bo as Ireland to the rest of the colony—a part of tho empiro where oppression, injustice and official, extravagance, woulH riot—and the consequences which had been realised at horns would bo realised in the colony. Whatever the fundamental vice of Provincial Government the members of that Council should hand over to their constituents the trust that had beon reposed in them.

Mr. Ball eaid that the proposer was .1 quaei member of the Hxecutive, und his resolution was quasi-Ministerial. The proposal to readjust the representation was too soon or too late. Aβ to the estimates of the Government ho hold them to bo not only fallacious but dishonest, and only obtained by tho repudiation of just debts. Tho Government would not be in tho position they then were had they not received a portion of the £25,000 from an unexpected source. He agreed that the aggregation of provinces created unseemly strife. '1 he disbursement for tho first threequarters of '67 exceeded recoipis by £26,000, He would read from prepared tables of figures. (The hon. member read from several pnges of closely tabled figures, showing, according to his judgment, the state of tho province.) The Gdvernmont had two accounts some where in Queenstreet —two cows, as it wore, and when one was dry they milked the other. Thoro was a vicious vitality in the railway which still cried out " give, give." He did not blame the present Government for all the evil that had happened. A great portion of it they inherited from their predecessors. But he felt indignant to hear an honorable membur disclaim any responsibility for what hud happened, for under his government £20,000 at leaet had been expended over and abuve what was authorised. There was a growing dissatisfaction in .the out districts 'to provincial institutions. 'J ho Chamber of Commerce two ye:trs ago hivJ sont to Wellington a j.etition against Ktertm subsidies, and when the abolition of subsidies are partially effects, there is a cry that they should bo rostored. Ho thorjht that an address ought lobe presented to the new Governor, submitting thoir special grievances. Mr. Wvsx uaid that if a resolution were passed that evening condemning provincial institutions, it was at least two years before they could bo abrogated with the sanction of the Imperial Parliament. If tho administration of tho province wns bad, would the Council destroy provincial institutions without an attempt to reform them. The hon. member said the estimates wore fallacious, dishonest, and criminal. VVa3 tho hon. member (Mr. Ball) prepared to justify that language. The hon. member did not refuse to form a Government on any such grounds. Ho was before tho Superintendent and no euoli charges escaped him. He told an hou. friend of his that he would not take office under any circumstances, but the moment ho wub aeked he jumped at it. Tho hon. member for the Bay told tho Couiv il that ho had a mission to protect his friends, who must have been a very bingular ciew indeed; he also eaid he had been twenty-fivo years trying to teach people the truth. Had he fallen in among liars ? Wisdom had said that all mun wero liars: was he a man ? ergo— (loud laughter) But there was another hon. member (Colonel Peacocke) who held tbe opinion for many years, that provincial institutions wero fundamental injuries. Where was his philosophy when ho held an emolument of £400 a year in tho Government. Coloneal Peacocke said ha was not in the Government, and the appointment was offered to him independently of any political consideration. Mr. Wynn : Tho hon. member held the appointment under the Government, and was at tho h«ad of the most important department—tho Waste Lauds Department. Where wns his philosophy tben ; but tho province wns to be torn to pieces by her enemice, (than th'ire woro vultures in the guise of philosophic.il opinions to help the result. The hon. member for the Bay was no advocate of retrenchment. His own salary as chairman of committoes had been increased and made permanent by Act. Was his desire for retrenchment in that direction. There had been a determination common to the whole provinco to show a bold front to the in favor of separation; there had been no withdrawal from that. Wore they prepared to maintain that principle still. If tho game law had come before uu Auckland

Assembly, it would have bean ecouted, for though a man eaw a number of phoaaants eating hie corn at hie %-ery door, he could not kill them or hunt thorn off; though he might shoot hie neighbour's fowls for paying the value of them, but in the former case he would be sent to the Stookade. Where was Mr. Oarleton when the New ■ Provinces Act was pass He was the foremost to desire to get the Bay of Islands erected into a separate province. Ho quoted Mr. Swainson aa a prophet, but he was the most etrenuouß opponent of that gentleman. It was the opinion of Mr. Gladstone that full political power should be given to provinces, because they were separated by wide intervals of space, and tho subsisting circumstancos prevented thoir gravitation towards a political contre. He (Mr. Wynn) would vote for the original motion.

Mr. CbeiShtov drew the attention of the Council to the faot that the cost of the establishment belonging to Lieut.-Q-overnor Wynyard, was little over £1000; the rovonuo was £35,000, the expenditure was £31,000. At present, when the revenue -was less, the salaried of the Superintendent and the Genoral Government Agent wore £1500. He retorted the charge of abandoning separation upon tho Superintendent and his colleaguee. If Auckland members had been as assiduous when in the Assembly in reducing expenditure as they were now in denouncing it tho result would be different. He believed that Provincial institutions were an unmitigated evil.

Mr. Newman said that either set of resolutions was inconclusive. He was prepared to vote for the first clause of the amendment, but he concurred with the Hecond and following resolutions of the member for Marsden. As to the primary functions of Government being exercised by the General Government only, he would say that nothing could be got from them except what would be bought by concession. Tho Gonoral Government and Aesembly were essentially Southern, and opposed by its very nature to Auckland. Ho inetunced the game law, -which was most unsuitable, and would bo inoperative ; nnd that Act ■was passed by persons who possessed little or no gaino to apply to those who did. By an act of fraud tho soat of Government was removed from the placo •where it was permanently fixed by her Majesty. 'Xhe Council appeared to be forgetting separation and was going to hand itself over to tho General Government, and it was a singular coincidence that tho only paid member of the Assembly and Government was endeavouring to bring that about. He (Mr. Newman) admitted the necessity of a change, but not the conclusion of the resolutions of tho hon. member (Vfr. Cnrleton). 'J'he expense of being ruled by tho Gonoral Government i«U3t bo greater tban by tho Provincial Uovornnißiit, so that thero could be no saving. If the modo of passing billa in the Council was bad, tho modo adopted by tho Gonoral Government was worso. The attitudetaken by the Provincial Councils had been too elevated, -which -was a source of increased cost. Had the Superintendent been eloctod by the Council, ho would have sat in tho Speaker's chair; if he eould not carry his measures, he would reeign, and respousillo Government would not be what it is, a trap.

Mr. Kwut said that he had, four or five years ago, said that a strong central Government would ho the greatest blessinsj to tho country. Ho believed that the country had been saved from a great curso when Mr. Whiwker's resolutions for separation were defeated. lie thought the best -way would be, to affirm the hon. member's (Mr. Carleton's) first resolution, ivn&. leave the others an open question. Ho believed the IjOchl Government Bill would give that moasure of justice to tho country which they had never received. He was not for abruptly terminating the provincial institutions. Ho should liko to 830 the whole of thorn go together, and not piecemeal.

Mr. Martin said thnt tho country members had been cntrnppnd by the bait offered by the General Hofeminent. He believe I the fund would come from Customs, to which the poor man contributi'3 most, but soon it would be found that tho poor man could not pa}-, nnd t> e burthen would be flhifted on to income. Ho could not consent to go over to that most corrupt of Governments ut Wellington.

Mr. Chßeseman thought that the hon. member (Mr. Giirleton) should withdraw hij amendment. If they wero to reform they should begin to reform at Wellington, but thny should reform tho whole. The province was not altogether to blame. Why should Auckland build Supreme Courts and Post Offices for tho General Government.

Mr. fcwANSON believed in courage, pluck, and persevoranco, and not in sclf-sacritico. Mo believed there was " go" in tho province, and that it was able to light its way. If some gentlemen thought they wero going to cast off thoir own sinners, they might bo assnred they would not bo handed over to a legion of saints. He might inquire whether the hon. member for tho Bay was sunk in the official, when upon tho estimates that wero spoken of, it was his duty to have exposed the fallacy of those estimates, iio beliovod tho war hsd been the curse of the provinco, for the Maoris were producers and property owners. He would like to see what was goini* to bo inateo.d of provincialism. To collect public opinion, tho way to do it was by appealing to the country ; let the members go to their constituents. It was said that tho Superintendents had attacked the General Government, then the General Govornmont wero determined to carry the war into the Council, if the notices that had been put on the paper meant anything. He (Mr. Swanson) would like to seo what Government would follow.

Mr. Davy having replied — Motion put, the Uouae divided. Aye?, 13—Messrs. Gilfulan, Dignan, Wynn, Howe, Cooper, liunter, Swaneon, Sheehan, Cheesemac, Martin, Dacre, Maclean, Davy (teller). Noca, 15 Messrs. Buckland, Creighton, Newman, Nicholson, O'Neill, Taylor, Munroe, Peacocke, Ball, Korr, Clarke, Farmer, Webster, Macready, Carleton, (teller). The Government were defeated on Mr. Davy's motion.

Amendment put "That tun form of _ government existing in t-liii* province should not continue." Mr GiLMLLAN said that he would move an amendment, that the following words be added " with a view of confirming and giving effect to the repeated opinions of the Council nnd the people of the province, with respect to insular separation from the Middle Island."

Mr. \Vyn< seconded tho amendment. Mr.'BucKiASDSßid tho amendment was attempt to depiivo the opinion of the Council of us legitimate effect. Mr. P.owb said rhr.t so far as he was concerned, he would be prepared to do without Provincial Councils if they wero not necessary, but what he did not wish to do, was, to remit the privileges of the Council ond tho rights of his constituents to Wellington. Captain Coopeu would vote for the amendment. He had always been in favor of insular separation. Mr. Caui.ktoN waid, although for many years an advocaf-e for insular separation, he would nofc vote for tho Government amendment. The Government amendment was put, and the Council divided. jl yeg) y—Mossrs. Gilfillan, Wynn, Dignan, Dacre, Chebseman, Hunter, Sheohun, Rowe, Coopor._ Noos. 10 —Messrs. Mnnro, Pcacocko, Nicholson, Carloton, O'Neill, Sen-man, Farmer, Ball, Bucklnnd, Kerr, Clarke, Macready, Taylor, Davy, Webster, Orcighton. Question put, "Thnt tho form of government now exiatin" in the Province of Auckland ought not to be continued.' Mr. Carleton's umendmenf was curried.

Mr. Carjveton announced that it was not then his intention to procoed with the other resolutions standing in hie name. Tho Council Hdjourned at a quarter past eleven o'clock to three oY-luek to-morrow.