LAND CLAIMS.

New Zealand Gazette and Wellington Spectator, Volume IV, Issue 330, 6 March 1844, Page 2

LAND CLAIMS.

Wellington, New Zealand, February 23, 1844. At a sitting of the Court of Land Claims, before Mr. Commissioner Spain. Present : — His Excellency the Governor ; His Honor the Superintendent of the Southern Division ; Mr. Protector Clarke, jun. ; Mr. Forsaith ; the Principal Agent of th« New Zealand Company ; the Natives of Te Aro being assembled.. Mr. Thomas Spencer Forsaith was sworn in before the Commissioner as interpreter to the Court. The Commissioner then addressed the assembled natives as follows :—: — When I left you some months since and went to Auckland, I promised you that I would return as soon as possible, and finally settle the Land Question. I am now come back to redeem my word, accompanied by the Governor, who has been sent by the Queen to be the Ruler and Governor of New Zealand ; hp has examined and considered ray proceedings about the land, and will tell you the decision. The words of the Governor are sacred, and his decision, which you will now hear, is final. I always told you that any promises made to you by the Queen, through her officers, would be faithfully performed, and you will now be convinced of the truth of my words. Mr. Forsaith interpreted. His Excellency then addressed the natives as follows (Mr. Forsaith interpreting sentence by sentence) — My friends, you have now the satisfactioa of witnessing the completion of Mr. Spain's promises to you hvt year. You see that the Government is inclined to act most faithfully, fairly, and punctually towards you. We, my countrymen and myself, have no wish to obtain anything from you which you are not willing to part with : my countrymen are only anxious to buy from you what you are inclined to sell, and that you should conclude with them bargains perfectly satisfactory to yourselves. When my countrymen first came out here, they made several mistakes in consequence of their not understanding your ways, and your not comprehending them. The Queen's officers have done their best to remove the effects of these mistakes, and the Government are now anxious to complete the arrangements for this purpose. But this arrangement, made in perfect good will, and after a thorough investigation, for the sake of the future happinesi and comfort of all of us, and of all our and your families, must be a final one. After this the case must be considered as closed and at an end, and I hope that, if you have any further enquires to make, you will make them at once, that we may perfectly understand each other and agree together, for this must be final. n I, as your sincere friend, and as being authorized and required to see the most complete justice done you all, am moit anxious to

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•see this arrangement carried out by the distribution of the payment, that.there may be no further disputes-about it among yourselves. I put confidence in what I have been told by your Protector Mr. Clarke ; I know he is your sincere friend, and will advise what is best for you ; If you consult and communicate with him, as you have done on this occasion, I feel sure he will recommend what is good for you. The Queen of England in order to put an end to the misunderstandings which have occurred in this country, chose as you all know an officer to come out here to settle all these questions. Mr. Spain having the Queen's confidence came out here to settle these difficulties which have troubled us so long. Mr. Spain has also my approval for the extreme impartiality and faithfulness with which he has gone into all these difficulties, and he has my confidence in the impartiality of his future proceedings. The Commissioner has investigated your case of Te Aro particularly, and Mr. Clarke has investigated the subject on your behalf, and has communicated to Mr. Spain what amount of compensation ought to be paid in certain portions to you. You must be all aware that' some one must be chosen to represent all of you in making this arrangement, 'and as Mr. Clarke has made this demand after full consideration, and as the Commissioner is fully aware of the facts of the whole question, I am confident that the fullest justice will be done you, if therefore you wish to ask any questions, let them be put now before the money is paid. Mr. Clarke will explain to you what is the arrangement the government have adopted, and will read to you presently, the paper which is to be signed by those whom he designs to receive the money for you when it is paid. I wish for the sake of the future peace and happiness of us all, to state to you distinctly once more, that after this money is paid the question as regards the case of Te Aro, will be at an end. I wish you to understand this that there may be no more doubts or mistakes about the land near Te Aro which you will thus alienate. I will never so far as I can prevent it, allow my countrymen to do you any injustice, nor you to injure them. My special duty is to put an end as much as possible to all jealousies and disagreements between us, and on this occasion I wish you, if there be any difference of opinion among yourselves about this payment, to discuss k deliberately, and quietly now, that there may be no doubt in future. The payment about to be made in compensation for land purchased sometime ago, is made by Colonel Wakefield, as the Agent of the New Zealand Company, on behalf of whom he purchased it. The Commissioner I repeat it, for there are some now in the room, who were not here when I mentioned it before, is the officer appointed by the Queen to enquire into and decide finally upon all these questions. Some one must decide finally, and all who know him, know and believe as I do, that he will do his best to decide faithfully, and impartially for all, no man can do more. Now Mr. Clarke as Protector and sincere friend of the inhabitants of Te Aro, will you read the docament which is to be signed by the chiefs you have selected to receive the money for the people of Te Aro. Mr. Clarke then read the document which had been prepared for signature, in which it was clearly expressed that the payment about to be made was final, and in absolute satisfaction of all their claims to land in Port Nicholson and the neighbourhood, their pahs, cultivations, burial places, and the native reserves excepted. Mr. Clarke said "you must distinctly understand that this is a final settlement of all your claims, for all your lands, and that it includes your interests in all the -places which I shall now enumerate. (Mr. Clarke then read the schedule attached to the document.) After it had been read, Te Awitu requested that it might be read twice over, which was done. Mr. Clarke continued — " Ido not say that you are to sell all these places, because some of them belong to others, but all your interest in any of these places." A native replied — "are we to have no cultivations iv Port Nicholson ? " Mr. Clarke answered " I have already told you that your cultivations are excepted." Mr. Spain requested Mr. Clarke to ask them if they clearly understood the lands they were selling. Mr. Clarke did so and added "lam now asking you the natives of Te Aro, not other natives, are you satisfied, and do you understajdiiihat this payment is for all your lands ? " 'xTpon this there was a general excitement, many of the natives present calling out in their usual violent manner, joined by several women at the lower end of the room — Is this the payment for out l«nd ? No ! No 1 we will not have it : can we live upon cultivations and sacred places alone ; no we will not agree to it. For some little time confusion prevailed, at length Parai rote and spoke to the following effect —

"My heart is pained on account of my land ; I am on inheritor of this land, this land is my source of life ; I shall not be satisfied with this (taking up a shilling,) this is the price of a loaf of bread ; we get this in payment for a bundle of thistles ; I will not have it ; I am glad we have seen it, Pomare and the rest of us. Take your money, we will not have it, we return it to you." After he had continued for some length in the same strain, Mr. Clarke said — "well if you are determined not to have it, I can say no more." Mohi then rose and said " who will agree to this ? No, keep your money, I will not agree to it ; let your thoughts be straight and fair ; we are Christians and will not be deceived ; I will not touch your money, it may remain there, and I will remain here ; this is sacred land, and therefore the payment must he great ; I had nothing of the former payment and will have nothing to do with this ; let your payment be straight, and then we will talk to you , Where is your gold, why do you withhold it ; and where are your horses, your caws, and all your other treasures ? if I take this money it will soon be gone, but the land will remain with you for ever; fetch some more money ; fetch some more money, five bags, and then I will talk to you. Governor, let your thoughts be straight, you are appointed to settle all our disputes ; you are on earth, Jesus Christ is in heaven, therefore let your thoughts be just, for I cannot agree to this ; what are we to do ? are we to fast entirely, as we must do if you take all our lands ; no it is said " the meats for the ! belly, and the belly for the meats ;" therefore I say go and fetch some more payment, or else when you go to Kumu Toto, Pipitea, or to Te Rauparaha, they will all do the same and refuse to accept your payment ; Warepori and Epuni had muskets and double-barrelled guns, and now you offer us shillings ! I will not cease to cry about my land ; let your payment be so great that we may distribute it about, and give even our dogs their share ; but if we take this that you now offer, we shall have nothing to give, either to our women or to our children." Another said — "George Clarke, look at this payment, look at your deed, I know your heart is dark, search your heart for the justice of this payment ; Ist your payment be great and then we shall let the land go cheerfully ; we shall strive about it to-day, to-morrow, and the next day, and then we shall not agree ; Governor do not let your ship go, but stop and listen to our strife about our lands ; I say fetch some bags of gold and pour them out upon the top of this silver ; let some horses also be included in the payment. Another said — Listen Governor and Mr. Ironside (the resident Wesleyan Missonary, who was present,) the land is our- life, by it we live and are enabled to believe in Christianity ; but if we give it up, what are we to do ? We have seen examples where others have given up their lands, and what has become of them ? Therefore, I -say, fetch some more payment. Ten casks of tobacco and some casks of guns, that all our people may share in it. Parai again addressed the meeting to the same effect, exclaming — New Zealand is gone, — New Zealand is lost, therefore let your payment be great. Several others followed, using very violent language, so that it became necessary in one or two instances to caution them to be more respectful. The Reverend S. Ironside then rose and said — " Friends, we are getting wrong, we are acting wrong towards the Governor. We have heard the words of the Governor, they are good : do not then give him an occasion to be sorrowful. Some time ago your cry was — 'our pahs will be taken by Europeans f ; but now they are secure. ' Our cultivations will be taken by the Europeans ' ; but now they are safe. ' Our burial places will be desecrated by the Europeans ' ; but now they are sacred. Therefore, I say, we are wrong. You talk about money — what is money? What is money compared to Christianity and peace ? What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Suppose that you had so much money that you could tread it under feet and scatter it about, what would it profit you if you lost your Christianity ? And what will be the result if you continue to refuse this payment; I shall not appove of your conduct. The Governor will go and leave you to settle your differences in the best manner you can, and what will be the result? why, your destruction. Therefore, friends, I say, it is much better to accede to the terms that are proposed to you, that your peace and prosperity may be promoted." Mr. Clarke then rose and said — " I ag«ee with Mr. Ironside, he is right ; listen to me ye people that are seeking your own destruction, that seek for quarrels and disturbances, listen to me ye self - deceiving peojji c, I will talk to you. I will commence frara my. first arrival here. You then told me to get some payment for your land.; you requested me to obtain for you justice? y>u

told me of the lands which had been taken possession of by Europeans, but which you had never sold. You said 'if we «ould only say that we had sold and received a payment for our lands we should be satisfied, eveu if every man should but receive a broken pipe.' Three years have I now been striving and seeking justice for you, and here it is ; and what if I should say that your payment is to be only one shilling for each. That is quite sufficient, because you have acknowledged the justice of my decision. If you will not receive .this, I cannot help it. If you refuse this I shall offer you nothing further. You talk about the payment that Warepori and Epuni received ; but what was theirs compared to this ? — it was not equal to one part of this heap. Is this place (Te Aro) a land of Chiefs? is'it the land of your forefathers ; is it the burial place of your ancestors that you talk so largely about it ? No, it is not, it is a conquered land; you are of small consequence. Therefore, I say, you are wrong ; you have not said one good word, you are traducing our motives ; and I conclude by telling you that if you do not like to take this, I can give nothing else, without doing injustice to the other natives and Colonel Wakefield. Parai again made a few comments upon this speech, but of an irrelevant character. Mr. Forsaith then rose and said — I will also speak a word, although I am a stranger, and but lately come amongst you. You are crying about your lands, but I say we have cause to cry because of your improper conduct : Therefore let us cry together. Is this "4 proper manner for those who have heard the gospel and professed Christianity to settle their disputes ! No ! it might do very well if you were all heathens ; but for you it is wrong, very very wrong. Some of you have been talking about the scriptures ; but I want to know in which book you find a warrant for behaviour like this. Does Mathew, Mark, Luke, or John approve of conduct like this ? Oh, no ! You know they do not ; you know it is not right : and therefore, I say, we have greater cause to cry than you have. You have said a great deal about your land being taken away, but I tall you it is gone already; you yourselves have sold it long agt to Mr. Hobbs and Mr. Bumby, although the sale was never completed. Why then do you resist our attempts to settle the payment of your lan I ? Supposing Mr. Hobbs and Mr. Bumby had completed their purchase, do you think their payment would have been equal to this ? You know it would not. Is not the table laden with money, and yet you are not satisfied. One, two, three, and four years has this question been agitating, and Mr. Spain and Mr. Clarke have been working hard to effect this settlement, and you now treat their offers with contempt, and render null all thsir labours. I tell you your conduct is bad in the extreme. We have given you nothing but good and kind words ; therefore, I say, let us have the same in return from you. Te Tera rose to reply, and said — I also will speak to you (Mr. Forsaith.) Some things you have said may be true, but some are wrong. You talk about our being Christian natives: Yes, tis' true, but will our Christianity alone support our lives, or fill our bellies ? We must have our land, or an adequate payment for it. Land is the source from which we derive our nourishment and support; and if you take that, Christianity will not supply its place. Therefore, I say, if you take the land, let your payment be equal to it in value. Several natives followed in sucession, speaking much to the same purport, but evidently much more reasonable and subdued in their tone. One of them of hinting that if all the money then spread out before them, was to be appropriated to the natives of Te Aro, it might be more probable that they should agree to it. Mr. Clarke said I have already told you that it is for natives of Te Aro only. A young man then got up, aud said — Take the land. Take the land. Take it altogether our pahs, our cultivations, and all ; and we will go and leave you : we wjll bid farewell to our homes, seek another residence ; buf still let us have some gold. When we eat rice, we eat it with sugar. You have given us the rice (pointing to the silver) now fetch some gold to sweeten it. Mr. Clarke, by direction of his Excellency, I sa i,j — " I will not listen to this last speech. If you talk about abandoning your pahs and your homes, we will not settle your claims at all ; we will by no means agree to such « proposal." Mr. Forsaith said — " Friends, that is an evil word you have given us. You talk about going away, but this must not be ; if such were to be the case, yon would very probably say, we have been forced to leave our homes by the Europeans, and. then tKe report wauld- fly to England" and other puts

of the world — that the Europeans had driven the natives front their homes. No, this must not be. The Governor has come hera to protect and take care of you all, and to teach you to rise in the scale of civilization, by living amongst us ; if you go away, you will always remain as we found you. Our forefathers were like you, but a distant people came and settled in our Island, and taught them to rise in civilization, and through this means we have become what we are now. There you must do likewise, we have come to your Island, and you must remain with us, that you may become like us. M Pomare (from Chatham Islands) then rose and , said — " I will speak to yon, friends, Natives and Europeans-; let your thoughts be straight and your words correct ; you. (the natives) have been striving to hive this 'laid considered sacred, but I tell you "it ifl-not sacred — it has long since become ?<&$&;,&- count. What, then, is all your taTk >; ajbbut? who was it fished this place up ? was it not I ! Did I not conquer this place, and t\ en you came and took quiet possession of it afterwards ? Therefore, although it is little, take it ; take it, I say. If you refuse, what else will you gel — will you give us the occasion of dissention— take it, although it is little, and if you want cows and horses, buy them with this money, and they will increase and be the means of procuring more money for you when this is gone, and you will be able to look at them and say, ( there is the payment for mj land.' If we get wrong here, if we fail here, we shall be wrong altogether — England will be wrong, the world will be wrong. Then for myself, I say, let me not be forgotten. " I must have a portion of this payment. Mr. Clarke, take care you do not forget me. I must have a share of this payment." His Excellency then told the natives that it was time for him to leave, that he did not wish them to conclude hastily or unadvisedly, he wished them fully to understand and talk over the subject, and he would therefore adjourn the meeting till the morning, when he would again meet them to hear their decision. The meeting then broke up. Saturday, February 24. The Commissioner sat again this morning pursuant to the adjournment of yesterday. Present : — His Excellency • the Governor ; his Honor the Superinte.ndant ; Mr. Protector ' Clarke, jun. ; the Principal Agent of the New Zealand Company ; Captain Sir Everard Home, H.M.S. North Star; Mr. Forsaith. At half-past ten o'clock the natives of Te Aro not having assembled, his Excellency dispatched Mr. Clarke and Mr. Forsaitb, to the pah to inform them that, " Having come this morning according to the arrangement made yesterday, his Excellency was now desirous of hearing the decision at which the natives had arrived on the subject of the payment offered to them yesterday. That his Excellency could not afford sufficient time in waiting for them if they did not come at once. That the money offered yesterday, which was enough and more than enough, was all that would be offered to them to-day. That his Excellency in the event of their refusing the offer must take steps for considering what measures should be adopted, but would not sanction the payment of a larger sum. Mr. Clarke having communicated with the natives of Te Aro ; Moses Ngaponga a native of that place, informed his Excellency of his sentiments as follows :—: — " You have heard what we said yesterday, we were not satisfied with the payment, we know that this sum is nothing as compared with tbat which Colonel Wakefield has received from the Europeans ; we have-talked this over amongst ourselves, and we think think that Colonel Wakefield should pay us the same as he received. Another cause of our dissatisfaction is, that the present sumi is by no means equivalent to the number of the natives, when it is divided there will be nothing for us. " We wish to say no more about it unless the payment is increased. I consider that a child of two years should have for his share £2, a child of five year? £10, and so on. " When you first came here you told us, that we should be compensated for such of our land as had not been fairly purchased, and if we (of Te Aro^had gone on board the Tory, and made some arrangements about our land, then you might fix a price for us to receive ; but as we never went on hoard the Tory, I consider we have a right to fix the price. When we saw the Europeans coming here and taking possession of land, and when we said to them ' this is our land,' they always replied, • No it is ours we have paid Colonel Wakefield - a large sum for it." ' . , The Governor then directed Mr. Clarke to reply to him :- — _ , .._. „,•,. " I cannot for a moment entertain such views; they are very wrong ; I cannot estimate the value of the land now with houset

and improvements upon it. I offer you the fair value of the land when it was bought, for this is no new purchase but tbe completion of a purchase made four years ago. " If you fix a price that in my judgment is more than is just, I cannot assent to its payment. The money that was paid to Col. Wakefield or rather to the New Zealand Company for the land, was expended in sending ships and emigrants, and property, out to this country, and in making roads and other improvements here, that money did not go into the pockets of the Company. The Directors of the Company at home are not paid, they take this trouble for nothing. The only persons of the Company who receive any pay, are the Secretary and Officers employed as their Agents here. " When the Europeans told you that they had paid Colonel Wakefield for the land ; did they also tell you that out of the money they paid for the land Colonel Wakefield, had paid for their passage from England. "One pound was paid in England for every acre, but from £20 to £30 were paid for the passage of every person sent out here by the Company and more. Moses then said to Mr. Clarke, " If you are determined to insist upon this arrangement, will you be displeased with us, if we leave this place and go away altogether some wherelse ?" The Governor said, " That would be a very bad arrangement." Moses then said, " The natives have no I ■wish to live with the Europeans, and rather j .than receive a sum for our land which we do not consider adequate, we will leave the j place and go elsewhere. How much would i there be for each man of us ? for our women and our children." On being asked how many they were in number altogether, he replied " 200." The Governor thon said, " On your own estimate recking you at 200 ; you the men of you, would receive £3 a man. This is a fair and just, nay a handsome sum ; to give you more would be injustice to the other natives of other pahs, and a very bad precedent." "This sum has been awarded you by the Commissioner and by Mr. Clarke after very much enquiry." "The Government will see this payment made, but will not consent to any increase in the amount. The Government will not chaf_fer with the natives for their land. M A certain sum once having been thus 'fixed after the most careful enquiry and consideration, I cannot sanction any departure from it ; from the present award."' Moses said, " If the sum wilj cot Le increased, we will not take what you now offer, we would rather go away from this place altogether, than take for our land a sum so small, which the other native's and by and bye you yourselves will laugh at us for accepting." On being asked if he now spoke the sentiments of the people of Te Aro, he said he did. The Governor then said through Mr. Clarke, -" As your friend I should be very sorrow to •see you go away from this place ; I have no wish to drive you away ; If you go away to a place where there is no Europeans, you will lose all the beuefits and advantages of European intercuorse and civilization. " At the same time you are free to go away, I will not attempt to prevent you ; but I shall | very much regret your taking such a step. " But from my word and decision given in this mater I cannot depart : I have made my decision and I am determined to abide by It." The Governor then rose and addressed the Europeans who were assembled to a considerable number. I wish to address a few words to my own countrymen, some of whom I am sorry to hear have been trying this morning to induce the natives to ask a larger sum than I, as the Queen's representative, under all the circumstances of the case, consider fairly their due. The consequences to my countrymen of this refusal, on the part of the natives, will be very detrimental. Those who have irepresented to the natives that Col. Wakefield or the Company, have received large sums of money for the land, have told them what they must know to be false, and must also of necessity have a very injurious effect upon the natives. , What advantages should we have without the outlay of capital and the exportation of labour. Need I tell you how essential is the unity< of the different classes ! What were the capitalist without labour ? The labourer without capital to employ him ? There must be capital to employ Jabour, out there must also be outlay to bring that labour out here. Out of every pound per acre paid to the Company, for their land, Iss. has been expended in emigration— in the exportation of labourers, and similar beneficial objects. How many of you have been brought out at %he Company's expense 1

This expenditure of the Company has been submitted by the Government, to the investigation of an officer of the Treasury, and every item has been carefully scrutinized. I nra not now speaking from report or hearsay, but what I know to be the fact. The Directors of the Company, when I left England, were not in the receipt of any pecuniary compensation, and the moderate dividends among the shareholders can only be regarded as a fair remuneration for the risk of their capital in a commmercial point of view. I state this thus publicly, and I will, if it be necessary, have what I now say printed and circulated among the natives, that they may know the real facts of the case and the falsity of what they have been told. All must see the folly — the wickedness of trying to persuade the natives to reject what I have decided to be, a fair and equitable compensation. When the Governor had finished, the natives rose and left, and the meeting immediately broke up. Wellington, Monday, February 26, 1844. The Natives of Te Aro, Kumu Toto, Pipitea, and Tiakawai having signified their intention of accepting the payment which had been awarded to them. The Commissioner sat this day at 2 o'clock, p.m. Present : — Mr. Clarke, jun., Protector of Aborigines for the Southern District ; Mr. Forsaith, Protector of Aborigines, and Interpreter to Commisioner ; Mr. Yates, Secretary to Commissioner ; Mr. Fitzgerald, Assistant Surveyor attached to Commissioner ; Mr. Ironside, Wesleyan Minister residing near the Pah Te Aro ; and a large body of European settlers. The natives from the pahs Te Aro, Kumu Toto, Pipitea, and Tiakiwai, having assembled at Te Aro, to receive the compensation awarded. The Commissioner directed Mr. Clarke to read to the natives of Te Aro the receipt and release which they were to sign, and to explain to them the boundaries of the land which they had sold. Mr. Clarke read the document in maori. Question, by the Commissioner. — " Have you explained to the natives of Te Aro what lands they have sold, and the boundaries of the same, and do they perfectly understand it?" Answer, by Mr. Clarke. — 1 have; I believe they do understand it. Question. — Are they satisfied to take the present payment. Answer. — They are. The Te Aro tleed was then signed by the following natives : — Te Awitu, Mohi Ngaponga, Parai, Puihi, Taira, Pukahu, Pomare, And by Mr. Clarke on behalf of the rest, and the document was attested by the following witnesses. William Spain, Commissioner, George Clarke, jun., Protector of Aborigines, and Interpreter to Commissioner. Samuel Ironside, Minister of Pah Te Aro, Arthur T. Holroyd, Barrister-at-Law. Thomas Fitzgerald, Assistant Surveyor attached to Commissioner. Question, by the Commissioner. — Do you consider that you have obtained the signatures of the principal chiefs of the families of Te Aro. Answer, by Mr. Clarke. — I have. £300, three hundred pounds sterling in English shillings was then paid to the natives of Te Aro in the presence of the Commissioner. Mr. Clarke then read the Kumu Toto deed ; and the same questions having been put by the Commissioner to Mr. Clarke, and the same forms gone through — £200 was paid to the natives of Kumu Toto, £200 to the natives of Pipitea, and £30 to the natives of Tiakiwai ; all these payments were also made in English shillings, in the presence of the CommisI sioner.