IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS—Friday, Feb. 20. Militia Bill.

New Zealander, Volume 8, Issue 649, 3 July 1852, Page 3

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS—Friday, Feb. 20. Militia Bill.

On the bringing up of the report on the Ministerial « Local Militia Acts" Bill, Lord John Russell again briefly set forth the main features of his measure, and his explanations seemed to anticipate some of the gravest objections about to be urged witb success against him. He proposed to allow substitutes, but to require that they should be taken out of the same lists — the lists of the same county and year : thus he got rid of the onerousness of strict personal service, and still avoided the evils of the system of general evasion by hiring substitutes, which is always practised when the Regular Militia is embodied in time of peace. He proposed that the Queen have power to call out the force, not only in presence of actual invasion, but. in case of u apprehended invasion ;" and he would retain the force embodied for six months after the enemy had left our shores, instead of six weeks, as the Local Miliiia Law enacts, with a further liability to be kept on foot for 12 months.

Lord Palmerston — I should be one of the last to prevent Her Majesty's Government from bringing in any bill for the purpose of providing a force sufficient to protect this country in case of invasion. On tbe contrary I wish to assist them in bringing in that bill ; but I chink it is of great importance for the public service that if a bill should be brought in, consisting, as this does, of considerable details, it should be tounded on right principles. (Cheers from tbe Opposition benches.) Now, from what the noble Lord has just stated, it appear* to me that there is an essential difference between the title which he intends to give to tins bill and the substance and provisions of the bill itself; and the purport of my amendment ia simply to make the title and provisions in better accordance with each other. The main point is, whether the measure is to be founded upon the system of tbe regular militia or tbe local. There is really a very essential difference between the two, and that distinction has been entirely lost sight of in the observations of the noble Lord, because°in proposing to bring in a bill which appears by its title to be founded on the local militia, the noble Lord has described very nearly a bill founded upon the regular militia. (Cheers from the Opposition.) Now, what I humbly conceive to be requisite is this— We are in a position, as a country, which exposes ua (I hope not to much probability, but to tbe possibility) of finding ourselves involved in war. (Hear.) We are liable to be invaded, in case of war, by a very considerable force —(hear)— -and we have not in time of peace a regular army sufficient in my opinion to meet emergencies of that kiad. (Cheers.) It would not suit the finances ot this country, and it would not suit the feelings of the people, to follow tbe example of the nations of tbe Continent, and in time of peace to maintain a large I standing army ("Hear, hear.") Our regular army, therefore—at all events that portion of it which we retain a; borne— is necessarily small in time of peace, and is inefficient to meet the various emergencies to which we might be exposed. Be it remembered, too, that the change which has taken place in the system of naval armaments by means of Bti>am— (hear)— renders the danger to which our shores are liable much more imminent than ever it was in former daye (bear, hear.) We have now to provido, not for a danger which may happen at the end of six months, or twelve months, but for a danger which may happen at the end of a fortnight from the time when it was first apprehended. (Loud cheen.) Now, how is that to be ptovided for ? Why, the only rational mode is, that you should have at disposal in time of peace a considerable force, adequately officered, drilled, disciplined, clothed, and armed, and that this force should be kept ready at tjie sborte&t notice to act under arms at tjjp breaking

out of war, or when war appears imminent. (Hear, lifar ) It is immaterial as to what you call it—whether it be a local or a general militia, providing it is drawn, I kept armed, and liable to bo called out at an eaily pc« riod. (Hear, hear.) Hut the local militia is not so. (Cheer*.) The local miiitia is not liable to be called out except in case of actual invasion or of an enemy appearing on (i»e coast. Now, to call out such a foice at such a period would he very much like shutting- the door after the steed had been Btolcn ; (loud cheers and laughter;; it would be like baling out a robber after he has got into your bouse. If you are not to call out the militia till the enemy hns hnded at Torbuy, the whole scheme would be useless. (Hear, beat.) Then you must give up the locil system ; and we find, in fact, that it is thrown overboard by the noble Lord, though ho still preserves the title. {Hear.) The next desirable point is that the force, when called out and fit for use, should be liable to serve in any part of the United Kingdom in which its services maybe required. We have lieJand near at hand (hear), and we must not disguise fiom ourselves that the danger which may threaten us may also threatpn that country, and that the enemy, whoever he may be, may attempt a landing not only on one, but on two or three points. (Cheers.) Your defensive foica wbicb acts in aid of your regular army should theiefore be anrilictble to any part of the United Kingdom. But the local militia are not applicable. The Act distinctly provides that the militia should nat go out of Great Britain. The noble Lord says this local militia shall be applicable to the whole of the United Kingdom (cbpers) ; it is not therefoje a local militia Act — why call it so, tbea ? In former times the militia of Ireland was liable to serve only in Ireland, and that of Great Biitain only in Great Biitiin ; but in 1813, 1 thiuk, an Act was passed by which all the force was made liable to seive in every part of the United Kingdom. I wish this force to be on a similar footing. So far the noble Lord has abandoned the framewoik of the Local Militia Act, that the force in all the points I have mentioned is described as being 1 ientical with the regular militia. There is another point which is also essential — namely, that the forcp, when called out, should be liable to remain embodied as long- as it is requisite for the defence of the country. Now, the local militia was not so. 'Die local militia was liable to be called out only after an enemy bad landed, or was then upon the coast; and it could not be kept embodied longer than six weeks after tbe enemy should buve been expelled or prevented from landing. Now it is evident that the liabiliiy to danger does not cease with the sailing away of an enemy's squadron or the expulsion of a body of his troops — (cheers) ; but here again the noble Lord throws overboard tne provisions of the Local Militia Act, rhough lie still retains the name (renewed cheers) ; because I understand him to say that the force is to remain embodied for six or twelve months after it is called out. The pLin proposed is therefore, I think, neither one thing nor the other (hear); it provides for the establishment neither of a local nor a regular militia. It is far better in time of peace to have a regular force, which you can call out in time of wnr, which, when you have got you can keep, which can be disciplined in time of peace, which can be kept m time of war, and which will prevent your going into the market and bidding against the recruiting service of your regular army. During tbe last war you were never in one year able to add more than 22,000 men to j r our regular army. But you will want more than that. You will have to send out reinforcements to your foreign garrisons. You will want a large augmentation of your army for your home defence*, and it would be 2 years before you couJd with safety dispense with that reserved foice, which, dormant in the time of peace, could be promptly brought out in time of war, and made available for the defence of the country. What the country wants is that force which we call the m litia— (cheers) — which has existed more than two centuries, which was founded in 1665, remodelled in the reign of George 11., and again improved in the time of Geoige 111. In the preamble of one of the Militia Acts the purposes and object of tbe bill are distinctly explained. It sets forth that " whereas a respectable force of militia, under the command of their own officers, is essential to the Constitution, and whereas the militia, as by law established, admits of being called out at a short notice,- for effectual service, for the internal defence of tbe realm," and so it goes on. The local militia, on the other hand, was an accidental and occasional force ; it was established as a reserve for the regular miiitia, and not a force that was substantial in itself, as an element of the permanent defence of the country ; and that being the case, it was a natural and proper arrangement that the local militia should not be called out until an invasion took place, because you hare m tlic jogul.u <inuy and regular militia a sufficient force to meet the assaults of an invading army, and what you want is, in the first place, a force that you can call under arms immediately, and which shall be equally available for tbe purpose of defence as the regular army. (Hoar, hear.) I know that objections are stated that the regular militia is a bad thing because it admits of substitutes— that you cannot rely upon your substitutes — that he does not appear at the time of training— that he will not come whenever the regiment is embodied ; that iti Scotland, people do not like to be compelled to serve, and that in It eland you cannot trust the men who may be enrolled. To listen to these objections one might suppose that Englishmen are cheats, that Scotchmen are cowards, and that Irishmen are traitors. (Cheers and laughter.) All the objections I ever heard are founded upon a practical distrust of the people of these countries. (Hear, hear.) Sir, I, on the contrary, am disposed rather to confide in them. (Cheers ) But, if you cannot trust your population to defend themselves — if you cannot trust Englishmen to defend their country — if Scotchmen will not take up arms and fight against an im ading array — if Irishmen will not be true to their Queen and country, let us send for a Russian force at once. (Loud cheers.) Let us have an Austrian garrison in London, (Cheers.) Let ushide our heads ii: shame and confusion, and confess that England is no longer England, and that her people have no longer spirit to defend themselves, their homes, their families, and their country. (Cheers.) Sir, that is not my opinion. lam of opinion that Englishmen are proud of their country, that they are sensible of tbe value of what they have to defend, that they are fully determined to maintain their liberties, that they will not give way to an unreasonable panic, or imagine dangers that do not exist, but that they will be prepared deliberately to guard themselves against dangers that are sufficiently probable. (Hear, hear.) And my belief is, that if the Government make the appeal to the people — if they shew them the dangers that may possibly arise— (hear) — if they point out to them the value of the stake they hare to defend, I for one believe you will not find the English substitutes running away from their colours —that Scotchmen will maintain their character for courage, and tbe Irishmen will not be j found unworthy of the country to which they belong. (Loud cheering.) You will then have a force costing this country little, but which will shew the count "ies of the world that you are prepared to defend tbe land you live in, and by that means you will aveit the danger — you will secure that peace which we all value, and maintain the country in that position of respect to which it is in every account so eminently entitled. — I (Loud cheers.) Sir, I move to insert after the word ! "amend," the words "and consolidate," with the in- ! tention of moving afterwards the omission of the word "local" before the word "militia." [The noble Viscouut resumed his seat amid loud and prolonged cheering.] Mr. M. Gib&on was opposed to both propositions, because if the country pursued a less aggressive policy, there would he no danger of war or invasion, and no ' necessity for incurring the additional charge contingent upon an increased military establisbmeut. It bad always been understood that for the defence of the country we must re]y on the Navy. Lord John Russell declined to enter on tbe question of the balance of power alluded to by Mr. Gibsonfurther than this, " that all questions of that kind must ultimately resolve themselves into a question of national defence." He said — if If, in spite ot the declaration annually made in the Mutiny Act of our desire to maintain the balance of power, we should resolve to stand timely by and allow the other powers of Europe to pursue their own course uncontrolled, we might enjoy an ignoble quipt for a time, but we should finally find ourselves isolated, and obliged to defend ouiselves under the most disadvantageous circumstances." He then went into the specific objections of Lord P,ume)ston, and aigued that his measure proposed to meet those very objections by its particular frame ; while be pointed out that Lord Palraerston had evaded the real question at the bottom of the difference between him and the Government — the question of substitutes. ''If you ballot for militia aud compel all the men drawn to serve in tbe ranks — be they farmers' or gentlemen's or mprchants' sons— you doubtless would secure an efficient body, but tbe hardship of the service would be intolerable," In conclusion, Lord John said— "lf, notwithstanding the objections 1 have urged, tho House conceives the noble Lord's plan to be tbe best, I advise j them to adopt it, and alter that which I have proposed. | But what I ask— and I think it is not an extravagant demand— is that we, the Ministers of the Ciown, hay- j ing for uiuny weeks cousiduicd this question moit at-

tentively, and having, among other plans, investigated one with •which the noble Lord was good enough to favour me some months hack, and come to the conclusion that our plan is the best and the least liable to objection, should be allowed to intioduce it." Mr. DisßAirr considered, on the contiaiy, that the language of the noble Lord at the head of her Majesty's Government was most extiaordinnry. Il was admitted that a neee a sity existed for increasing the national defences. The Government proposed one plan by which to attain that end : to which the noble Lord opposite (Palmercton) had suggested certain verbal amendments. But, strange to say, the first Minister of the Crown denied the right of the House to consider the piinciple involved in the proposed plan. The noble Lord bad, tbiee or four years since, expressed his intention to bring in a bill in reference to the militia, but it had been delayed until now, when it appeared that the Government was not satisfied with the existing defences of the country. Surely then it was competent for that House to consider how best such a domestic garrison could be secured. In the present state of affairs more especially, it was the duiy of that House to decide upon what ptinciple the means of defence should be attained. If the plan of the Government were not the correct one, Purely the llouso was at hbeity to adopt any other plan which might appear better adapted to the exigencies of the case ; and when the first Minister told the House that if tlipy assented to the amendment of the noble member for Tiverton, he would throw upon the noble Lord and the Chairman of Committees the' responsibility of bringing forward the hill, he must say that that was a tone which the noble Lord ought not to adopt. (Hear, hear.) The noble Lord too often shewed a readiness to menace the opinions of the House. (Cheers fiorn the Opposition benches.) If the piesent was a legitimate occasion to express a preference for the amendment proposed, he could not doubt that the House would not slmnk from fulfilling that dnty, and that the threat of the first Minister would not deter them from laying down the sound iiiinciple upon which they thought the means of national defence should be established. (Cheers.) Sir G. Grey said his noble friend never intended to deny the right of the House to express its opinion on the principle of the measure ; but the amendment of the noble Lord the member for Tiverton went to this, that Ministers would have leave to bring in a bill, but not the one they have prepared. The objects which the noble Lord had in view would be found provided for in the bill, and its details were open to amendments. But the proposal of the noble Lord to alter the principle of the bill before it was brought in, was one to which, the Government could not agree. Mr. Deloes suppoitecl the amendment. Mr. Hume thought Ministers ought to be allowed to introduce tbeir bill, but was opposed to any increase in the miltary establishment. Mr. S. Herbert had no preference for pither plan, and did not see why, if necessary, there should not be a general as well as a local militia. Colonel Thompson supported the amendment. Mr. F. Maule contended that the Government bill P r ovided for a militia upon the cheapest, the least burdensome, and most efficient plan. After a few words from Mr. Chatems, the House divided. The numbers were : For Lord Palmerston's amendment „ 136 Against it 125 Majority against the Government — 11 The announcement of the numbers was received with repeated buists of most enthusiastic cheering by the gentlemen on the Opposition benches. On re-admission to the gallery, Loid John Russell was addressing the House. lie said he considered the vote of the House tantamount to a refusal on the part of the House tv allow the Government to bring in the bill. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) He could not be responsible for any measure upon this subject which would contain clauses and provisions other than the bill which he should have introduced. — (Renewed cheering.) He therefore relieved himself of every responsibility with respect to tbis measure. Any other person might undertake to bring in a bill upon the subject, but he (Lord J. Russell) would not. (Loud cheers from all parts of the House.) Lord Pamiekstdn : Sir, I cannot help expressingmy extreme surprise at such an abdication by the Government of their proper functions in this house. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) The noble lord lias stated this evening that his measure was so nearly the same as the arrangement of the .regular rniluijj tJiut it appeared to me — as it appealed to the majority of the house — that it was inconsistent wab common sense, I may say to retain the word " local" in a measure which, in fact, with one exception, was an arrangement of the regular militia. (Hear, beai,) The noble lord statod that his plan would admit of substitutes, like the regular militia; he stated that bisr-lan would admit of the body beins; called up in case of war like the regular militia ; he admitted — if I understood the noble lord rightly — that in case of war it might be sent to any pait of the United Kingdom like the regular militia. The only difference between tfs is as to the period of their embodiment; and I ask, if that is the case, is it fitting that the Government should shrink from the performance of their duty — (loud cheers)— that they should throw up, on account of a temporary incidental failure frf then own plan— (laughter and cheers)— that they should thiow up a measuie which they ought not to have proposed unless they thoaght that it was really essential ibr the welfare of the country. ( Loud cheers.) The Speaker: I have to inform the house that at present I have no question before me. (Cheera and laughter.) Lord John Ruescr r, : Tarn sure that if we were now to bring in the bill on the principles of which the Go vernment have decided, when that bill vras printed, I should ba told that it is not the bill which tho noble Jord intended, and other provisions must be introduced. Sir, is that a position for a Government to hold? (Loud and prolonged cheering from all sides.) I think 1 made a great admission when I said that, with regard to all j the details of this bill, when it was before the house, I should be ready to listen to any amendments; I should be ready even to submit it to a select committee for further consideration. But if lamto be stopped at the threshold—if I am to be told at the commencement that this house has no confidence in us — (cheers fiom the Opposition) — then, sir, it is impossible for us to go on with this measure. (Cbeprs ) I must therefore, sir, conclude by moving that Mr. Bernal and Lord Viscount Palmerston be ordered to bring in the bill. (Cheera and laughter.) [The house now presented a scene of great excitement and confusion, the members forming themselves into groups, and discussing with great vivacity the new position of affairs. In the midst of this excitement — ] Sir Benjamin Hall rose and said — Sir, I cordially voted in favour of the noble lord at the head of the Government, because I thought that the course pursued by the noble lord who sitsbolow me (Lord Palmerston) is uncalled for and unprecedented. (Cheers.) But lam not at all satisfied wi'h the decision to which the noble lord at the bead of the Government has now come. He as the head of the Government, has stated to this house that this country requires further defensive measures, and be ought either to give up the situation he holds in Her Majesty's councils — (loud cheers) — or he ought to introduce his bill. I have no horror of a Conservative Government being in power. (Laughter from the Conservatives.) 1 should like to see them try their hands at the Government — (cheers) — and therefore I hope that my noble friend, after the decision to which I he has come, will not merely abandon this bill, but will take the manly and constitutional course winch he has before done, and declare that he no loDger presides over the councils of this country. (Cheers.) Lord John Russkll : I took it for granted, from the result of this vote, that the Ministers no longer possessed the confidence of this house ; and the result of Ministers no longer possessing the confidence of this house will be that the usual course will follow. You ' said, sir, a little time ago, that there was no motion before the house, when I moved that Mi. Bernal and Lord Palmerston be ordered to bring in the bill. Of course I do not mean to impose that responsibility upon the noble lord, and I now beg to withdraw the moiiou. (Hear, hear.) The motion was withdrawn according^', and the question dropped. The members began rapidly to leave the house, and in a few minutes both Ministerial and Opposition benches were nearly deserted. All the Cabinet Mi uateis left, except Mr. Labouchere and Mr. Fox Maule, and they followed their colleagues as soon as the motions, with which their names wire connected, bad been disposed of. < Mr Glad&tont obtained leave to bring in a bill to relieve bish' ps, clergy, and laity, in the colonies, in communion wiih the Church ot England, from legal doubts or disabilities affecting the management of their Church aftutis. The remaining business being disposed of, the houflft adjourned.

Mondvy, Fnn. 23. In anticipation of an announcement by Loul John Russell with regard to the events which had trans piled since the Friday evening, hon. members commenced taking th"ir scats at the unusually fatly hour of thiee o'clock, (50 that when prayers were saul, at five minutes to four, the rev. chaplain had an unwonted niimeious audience. At that time there could not have been less than 300 members in the house — the gi enter portion of whom weie on the Opposition benches, which weie still occupied by the Country party. The beats on the Treasury bench were at first left entirely vacant, and, as some of the members who held subordinate offices in the late adminisiiation entered, they turned aside, and modestly retired to the back benches on the Ministerial side of the house. Amongst these were Lord Alfred Paget, Mr. Hatchell, the Attorney-General for Ireland, and Mr. Bouverie. On the front Opposition benches were seatpd, as usual, Mr. Disraeli, Mr. Stuart, Mr. Napier, Mr. Christopher, Mr. Corry, Mr. W. Patten, Sir J. Y. BuWcr, Mr. Card well, Mr. Sydney Herbert, Sir Robert Inglis, Colonel Sibtborp, and Sir F. Thesiger; and in other parts of the house on the same side, Sir J. Pakington, Mr. H. J. Uailhe, Mr. A. Stafford, Mr. Nevvdegate, Lord J. Manners, and Mr. Addeiley. The membeis of tbe Radical party, headed by Mr. Hume Mr. Cobden, Mr. Roebuck, Mr. Bright, and Mr. Gib> son, were in great force ; anil of the Irish brigade llOta man seemed to be wanting-. Sir J. Graham was early in the house, and previous to the arrival of tbe members of the late ministry, was engaged in deep and anxious conversation with Sir G. Clerk. Mr. Feargus O'Connor [ was in constant motion — now in tbe gallery, then, in the body of the bouse ; at one time taking 1 snuff with a Conservative member, at another time shaking hands with a Whig. For tbe first hour after tbe Speaker bad ta'cen the chair tbe bouse was engaged in disposing of of a laige number of private bills, and in that interval the arrival of additional membeis was unceasing, until every part of the house was crowded. Sir D. Dundas was the first member of the Whig Ministry who took his place on tbe vacant Treasury bench. Then followed at brief intervals Mr. Ilayter, Lord Seymour, Mr. C. Lewis, Mr. Elliot, Mr. F. Maule, Sir F. Baring, Mr. G. Craig, Sir W. Somerville, Mr. Labouchere, Sir G. Grey, Mr. Y. Smith, and Colonel Auson. Lord J. Russell made bis appearance at half-past four ; but his entrance, if perceived, elicited no expression of feeling from any part of tbe bouse. Lord Palmerston was about a quarter of an hour after his late colleague and ci devant " noble fnend." The noble lord took possession of the seat next Mr. Roebuck, below the Ministerial gangway, and facing Sir Itobert 11. Inglis, which he has invariably occupied since bis secession from tbe Whig Cabinet. So impatient were hon. members to bear the anticipated Ministerial explanation, and so great was tbe noise prevailing in the house, that the transaction of the private business was mere dumbshow and pantomime. And thus were road and railway bills, docks and water bills, harbour and cemetery bills, " disposed of."

The Ministry. Oa the question that tbe orders of tbe day be read — Loid John Russell rose and said — After the occur rence which took place on Friday night, the house will be prepared for the announcement I have now to make. At a meeting of Her Majesty's servants on Saturday we considered what course it was incumbent on us to pursue. It appeared to us that it was impossible for us satisfactorily to carry on the business of tbe Government in this house after the vote of the previous night. We considered the alternative of advising Her Majesty to use her prerogative to dissolve Parliament, but we considered that there were such grave objections to such a course that we declined to recommend it to the Crown. We therefore determined humbly to lay our resignations before Her Majesty, which I accordingly did the same afternoon. Her Majesty was giaciously pleased to accept our resignations, and sent for the Earl of Derby, who, I understand, has undeidikea the task of forming the Government. We therefore only hold our offices until our successors are appointed by iler Majesty. After this statement, Ido not wish to recur to the various events which have taken place since the commencement of this session, and which may form, perhaps, the subject of debate bereaftei ; but I cannot conclude what 1 have to say on this occasion without expressingmy sinceie thanks to those who supported Her Majesty's Government;— (hear, hear)— and who, dvi ing j upwaidaoffive yeaishave enabled me to suppoita position to which, 1 must confess, I should otherwise have been totally unequal. Having had theii confidence, and having had the advantage of their support, 1 have been enabled duiing that period so to conduct affairs that we shall not leave any great biancu, either of our domestic or foreign relations in a situation of which we need he at all ashamed. (Cheers.) I wish Amber to say, with respect to one of my colleagues, to whom I am pectiliaily icidebted, that it is to the temperate wisdom and respected character of the Marquis of Lausdowne— (cheers)— that the Government owe the facility of being able to carry measures of great importance through the House of Lords, wheie a Miui&try composed from the party to which I belong- has not hitherto had the support of th« majority, (Hear, hear.) As I have before said, I do not wish now to reciu to pas>t events, or to dilate upon anything which might raise a difference of opinion in this house ; as to the future, I shall only say that 1 shall think it my duty to oppose , out of office as I have in ofhce any restoration of the duties on corn — (loud cheers) — whether under the name of protection or revenue — (renewed cheers) —and ' I sh.ill think it my duty to support the extension of ihe suffrage to those who are fitted to exeicise the franchise for the welfare of the country, believing that such an extension will add strength and solidity to our Parliamentary system. (Cheers.) I will say further, that 1 shall always use the little influence I may possess for the maintainnnce of the blessing of peace. (Hear, hear.) I have now only to add, that since 1 came into the house J have had a communication fiom the Earl of Derby, stating that it was his wish.Yor the convenience of the o'lionl arrangements which he is charged to make by Her Majesty, that the house should adjourn to Friday next ; and, in compliance with that wish, and considering such a course consistent with public convenience, I move that this house at its rising adjoin n to Friday next. (Hear, hear.) This motion was put and carried, and the House shortly after rose at twenty-five minutes to 6 o'clock.