THE ESTIMATES

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume 79, 30 September 1944, Page 2

THE ESTIMATES

FURTHER ITEMS CONSIDERED JUSTICE AND PRISONS DEPARTMENT Wellington, Sept. 29. The treatment of prisoners was debated at length in the House of Representatives this morning when the vote for the Justice and Prisons Department was considered. Mr J. T. Watts (National, Riccarton) said payments made to jurors were hopelessly inadequate and the sanr: applied to witnesses. He asked the Minister if he*had considered making increases. Mr H. E. Combs (Government, Wellington Suburbs) supported the claim for higher payments and said that the present rate ’ of 13s 4d a clay was not in with the earnings of an average adult male. Mr H. T. Morton (National. Waite- , mata) said it seemed to him that New Zealand had progressed very little in | the methods of handling prisoners. ; While it was true that punitive methods ’ must be taken against lawbreakers, the , methods employed should also be reformative. What was wanted was a system whereby men could be trained in a useful trade so that they could return to a free life and be a useful i citizen. He believed the majority of ! men in prisons were without a trade . and training would give them a different outlook on life. Mr Combs supported the plea for more emphasis on reformation in prisons; and Mr W. T. Anderton (Government, Eden) also supported the request and suggested a psychological grading jf prisoners. Mr C. M. Bowden (National, Wellington West) s-id they should not be led > astray by false sentiment. While there : was room for reformative treatment it - should be remembered that imprison--1 ment was a punishment. Mr F. Findlay (National Hamilton) > said prisoners’ treatment was in their - own hands because a prisoner’s con- - duct determined the treatment he ■ would get. If they took the attitude that i a prison was always wrong and a - prisoner was always right they would , make trouble for those who were running the prisons in what he considered ; to be'a way equal to anything in the r world. UNFAIR TREATMENT ALLEGED Mr M. H. Oram (National, Manawatu) . said a case had been brought to his » notice of a Chinese who had sought ; permission to purchase a property, but ’ was told that if he did so he must in- • vest £IOOO in the War Loan. Mr Oram said this was an unfair treatment of a friendly alien who should either be , deemed fit to purchase land unconditionally or should be refused. [ Mr J. Hodgens (Government, Palmerston North): Are you sure this I is not a fairy tale? • Mr Oram said the facts of the case were in his possession from a solicitor who negotiated the transaction, i Mr W. J. Poison (National, Strat- . ford), referring to the matter, said he . was reluctant to believe that there' , was not explanation for this • blackmail oi a friendly alien. ; The Chairman of Committees, Mr R. McKeen, requested a withdrawal of i the term blackmail and Mr Poison comI plied. Mr Poison said there was a great deal . of concern in the country about the . number of aliens and the positions they were gaining. Many persons high in the service of the country had suggested that “kissing goes by favour” regarding opportunities aliens had for entering business. Mr Poison said some of the rumours were more than rumours. Statements had been made to him personally by officers who believed there was a wrong which should be put right. ATTORNEY-GENERAL SPEAKS Mr H. G. R. Mason, Attorney-General, said early in the war there was a great deal of fear and emotionalism concerning aliens and terror lest every one of them might be a spy. No amount of assurance as to the credentials of aliens would assuage that nervousness. Most careful and minute work was done over a long time to check e\erything which could be found concerning aliens personally. Mr Mason said a few years ago there v/as severe criticism of the Government for not opening the doors of the Dominion more widely to refugees. Certainly the policy regarding aliens had | been very cautious and consequently their numbers to-day were not great. Very few were admitted before the war and none during the war, except a very few who were on their way when war was declared, yet the agitation went on as if they had been coming in all the time during the war years. REGULATIONS NECESSARY Mr Mason said regulations governing land purchase by aliens became necessary, not to injure aliens but to protect the people of the country as a whole. There had been only a very few aliens who had attempted to buy up properties excessively. The Minister said he interpreted the regulations not to mean that an alien should not have a roof over his head but as meaning that they could not buy up property all over the place. Consideration was given to whether an alien was doing anything to help the war effort, although if circumstances made it impossible for him to do anything that was not held against him. If an alien who had not done everything’ in his power for the war effort sought to purchase land that fact was taken into consideration. As far as the Chinese were concerned, they received every consideration. Numbers had been allowed to purchase land for market gardening. Mr Hodgens: Who determined the £1000? Mr Mason said he could not recall that amount, but the true facts of the story which had been presented so unfavourably by Mr Oram were probably consistent with the policy he had outlined to expecting aliens buying land to help the war effort. “We want to know a man is doing the best for the war effort that he can,” said the Minister. No doubt if the War Loan subscription suggested was too great the figures would be revised. If a man who was an Allied subject was not helping the war effort there was no reason why great excitement should be worked up over the mere fact that he was an ally. Mr Mason stressed that the alien regulations operated not to injure aliens, who would receive reasonable treatment according to the circumstances of each case, but to protect the people as a whole. Mr Poison said the treatment of the Chinese in the instance given was undignified. Mr MacDonald asked if similar treat-

ment applied to all refugee doctors too, and Mr Mason replied in the afflrmati\ e. FEES FOR JURORS Mr Mason said an increased fee for jurors was under consideration and was before the Stabilisation Commission at the present time. The idea was that a men who was called for more than three days should be fully reimbursed. As far as the treatment of prisoners was concerned there was a great deal of difference between he opinion of those handling the prisoners and those who merely observed. The ability to train prisoners was limited by the length of sentence in most cases, but there were 29 warder instructors in the department and they were having some measure of success. It was a mistake to suppose that a few kind words or shew of emotion would turn a criminal into an honest man. It was not as easy as that. Mr P. Fraser (Prime Minister) said there was a strong feeling in the country against friendly aliens getting opportunities which would contract those of the men serving overseas. If an alien did get the privilege of acquiring property, was it too much to ray that he should lend some of his property to help the Net Zealand forces whj were protecting him. Mr Algie said the issue was whether aliens should be allowed to buy property or not. If he were to be allowed to buy then there should be no conditions. If the Government said an alien was not to be allowed to buy until our boys returned he would support that decision. To allow aliens to buy property if they put a few pounds into the War Loan did not help the boys overseas. It was merely a bad condition defeating a good principle. The vote was passed before the debate was interrupted at 1 o’clock.