PARLIAMENT

Manawatu Standard, Volume LVI, Issue 109, 8 April 1936, Page 11

PARLIAMENT

KEEN DEBATE ON RAILWAYS

END OF BOARD CONTROL

Although members of the House of' Representatives had sat all through the previous night and right up to midday, the Opposition, at least, showed little sign of fatigue when the second reading debate on the Railways Bill was resumed last evening. A vigorous discussion ensued in which the Opposition deprecated the attacks made on members of the Railways Board, and the Minister refused to withdraw any part of his statements.

THE NATIONAL INTEREST. RECOGNITION SOUGHT. BOARD MEMBERS DEFENDED. Per Press Association. WELLINGTON, April 7. The House of Representatives tonight resumed the second rending debate on tlie Government Railways Amendment Bill. Mr W. P. Endean considered that the Ministerial attacks on two members of the hoard were unfair. They conveyed the impression that the de-puty-chairman, in his dunl capacity, was not acting fairly, but in reply to the speaker’s direct questions Hon. R. Semple bad admitted be was not making an accusation of wickedness. Mr Endean said he knew Sir James Gunsom’s character was aliovto reproach. The board must have been responsible for many improvements under Mr Sterling’s chairman ship.' Mr Endean suggested that Mr Sterling’s knowledge and ability should still be utilised for the department’s benefit. It was one of the curses of New Zealand that it had a huge public debt of £280,000,000 and that wns the fault of democracy—that the people in charge could not stand up to the demands of those concerned only with locality and not with the national interest and not with the national interest.

over services by rail, water or air was a very dangerous proposal. He would resist it. Mr H. G. Dickie spoke of the political pressure that would he brought to bear on the Minister if lie took control of the railways. He supported the completion of' the Gis-borne-Napier lino, blit said tliat if the South Island Alain Trunk line were completed it would be- a political job. QUESTIONS FOR MINISTER. Rt. Hon. J. G. Coates said lie doubted if New Zealand had produced many men of tlie calibre of Mr Sterling. He would not like it to be thought the Minister had directed attention to tlie chairman otherwise than in a favourable light._ Tlie Minister’s remarks were directed against the act-ing-chairman. Air Coates did - .not think that under Ministerial control the railways would receive the same supervision as under a board. He asked the Minister to state whether lie thought Air Sterling was incapable ill his'capacity of chairman of the board or a railway officer. Atr Coates asked what test in the development of railways was to be applied in reaching a decision whether or not this or that line should be completed. He referred to tile “balloon loop’’ and said there was an idea that it bad been constructed to benefit his (Air Coates’s) property, blit bis property was fifty miles away. He invited the fullest investigation into the construc- ' tion of that line. He was ready to ! accept responsibility for tlie cessation | of work on certain railway works. He claimed the board bad done valuable ' work, that the chairman bad perform--1 ed his duties faithfully and. well, and ' that members had done their work to ’ the best of tlieir abilities. i NO AVITHDRAAVAL. i • The Minister of Railways (Air Sullivan) claimed that the carriage of I goods by land, sea and air needed coordination and tlie provision in the > new Bill was almost identical _ with the provision under which the railways ! had been working throughout almost : their’whole history. He reminded the ; Opposition that the proposal for the : construction of any new line wn*ild ! have to come before the l 'House when ■ money was- sought to build it, and ' members would have ah opportunity 1 to discuss it. , The tiling that .struck ; him most during the debate was tlie ' amazing misrepresentation 'that was indulged "in in regard to the Railways Board. He was dealing with principles in his remarks, not persons, and he explained that at the beginning of bis remarks and again at tlie end. He withdrew nothing. He did not say Air Reese bad tendered against tlie Alamaku mill. He imputed nothing improper to Air Reese or Sir Jajnes Gunson, but the system was wrong. The second reading was carried by 52 votes to 17 and the House rose at 12.10 a.m.

Mr -AY. J. Broadfoot said the question was.: Shall the railways be under political control or shall they be depoliticalised ? He thought the Minister in the days to come would be sorry he bad brought that legislation before the House. Mr Broadfoot commended the Railway Department for the improvements that had been effected in recent years. In days gone by members of Parliament were practically labour bureaux and were eager to find positions for their constituents. He considered that before the South Island Main Trunk and the GisbojneNapier railway lines were proceeded with the full facts and figures should be placed before the House.

Mr Semple : AVe will give yon facts all right? z

Mr Broadfoot asked what assurance the Minister had that he would get all the traffic on that line. As Minister of Transport and Minister of Public AVorks he held conflicting offices and was in a difficult position. Mr Broadfoot said the Government seemed to have a great aversion to anything in the nature of boards, but the Minister of Railways was setting up a tribunal behind which he could shelter instead of facing up to the troubles that would' arise.' The tribunal would act as a buffer between the Minister and the.men. DEMOCRACY AND It AIL AVAL'S.

Mi* D. AlcDougall thought the railways had -not been well managed and considered the Minister was doing the right thing in getting rid of the board. He had been informed by engine-dri-vers and others that the rolling -stock was not kept in good repair. He considered there should be no first and second-class carriages in a democratic country and advocated one class only equal to tlie present first-class. Air A. Hamilton said everything was being brought back into politics and it was that which would break democracy down.

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT. SUGGESTED ABOLITION. RECEIVING ATTENTION. Mr AV. J. Broadfoot asked the Aim'll '0 "H ' UO H) ao !l sn f J° ' IO DI Alason) whether the Government intended to introduce this session a Bill abolishing capital punishment. Air Alason, in reply, said the matter was receiving attention. _ The Judicial Reports Bill was introduced and read the first time. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. BETTER DEFENCES URGED. END OF ADDRESS-IN-REPLY DEBATE. The Legislative Council resumed at 2.30. The Reserve Bank of New Zealand Amendment Bill was read tlie first time. Hon. AI. Eagan said the second reading would he taken to-morrow morning. The Address-in-Rcply debate was resumed. Hon. AI. Connelly said tliwt ■if money could be found for defence it could be found for unemployment. Hon. AA r . Perry urged that defence ho looked at from an Empire viewpoint. Britain’s Navy and Army were in a low state and New Zealand should take steps to provide adequate defence. Hon. V. A. AVard considered New Zealand’s defence should he by. land guns and aeroplanes. Air Eagan said the Labour Government was not a Government of pacifists and did not believe in a defenceless New Zealand. It stood for the closest allegiance to Britain and tlie League of Nations. The Leader of tlie Council (Air Fagan) returned thanks for the good wishes that liad accompanied his elevation to tlie. office which he now held. He was deeply conscious of the dignity of the office and would do his utmost to preserve the high traditions maintained by his predecessors. After the mover of the Address-in-Reply motion, Hon. B. Atartin had replied, the motion was carried and the Council adjourned at 4.30.

Air AV. J. Jordan : The Government is going to govern. Air Hamilton : Yes ; the Government is going to govern and Parliament will have no say. , The next few years, lie said, would provide the test. Parliament was there to administer law and order, defence and so on, not so much to administer as many businesses as possible. He thought tlie railways were well run and there was a wonderful feeling in the railways, to-day. Air Hamilton contended tlij.t tlie Minister in his speech bad used tlie muck rake too much.

Air Sullivan : I will give you some facts in a minute.

Mr Hamilton said the Minister’s speech, when he made the attacks on public men, was on a lower plane than usual. Air Sullivan: A r ou want me to suppress facts, and I will not do so. Air Hamilton: It is better to attack a principle than a person. The member for Wallace contended that the board system had much to justify it, and lie thought the cry for its abolition was an umvise one. Air Hamilton said the Government would have to go a little steady in pullingeverything back under political or Government control. The Government otherwise would have a weight to carry that would break it down. Air H. S. S. Kyle protested against the attacks that had been made agaipst Mr Sterling while he was absent from the country. Commercial orinciples had been introduced into the railways in the last four years. Air J. A. Roy said the service of the Railway Department in the last few years had been out of all comparison to the service received before that. To-day tlie department met its customers and went out of its way to secure business That liad been responsible for the return of much traffic to the railways. He said there was growing up a more mobile form of transport which was damaging tlie railway returns. Air Semple: A Government that can control the railways can control road transport. So that is: what we will do. . Mr Roy said the road carriage of stock had come to stay because in many cases it was much more convenient.

Air Semple: - If we can’t give service we can’t expect the farmers’ patronage. Air Roy thought the railways should have been left under board control.

JAIPROVED SERVICE. Air J. Hargest spoke of the much improved service the railways to-day gave users compared with fifteen years ago. He said it was not wise to construct good roads alongside the railways. There was room for both provided they were under proper control, and he thought a board was the best means of achieving that control. He believed tlie Alinister of Transport was capable of making a good service out of the present one, but lie did not think he was wise to take control out of the hands of the hoard. Mr Hargest considered the power given the Minister in the Bill to take