Marlborough Provincial Council.

Marlborough Express, Volume VI, Issue 297, 17 June 1871, Page 5

Marlborough Provincial Council.

ELECTION OF SUPERINTENDENT BY THE PEOPLE. Last week in our report of tlie proceedings in the Provincial Council we left over tlie following debate in order to give it as much in extenso as possible, being the only debate worth attention during the Session. We have endeavored to render each speaker as nearly and fully as possible. Mr Ward moved “that it was not desirable that this Council should be deprived of the privi* lege of electing its own Superintendent conferred by the New Provinces Act, 1858.” In doing so he said the question was a most important one. When it was brought up last session in the Assembly it was considered desirable that an opinion should be expressed by this Council, and as it might be broiight up again; he thought the present motion not .out of place, as it affected the

whole theory of Government. Last year a pe* tition was got up in Blenheim, shewing how the people were robbed of their rights, he knew hoW it was got up, the people were caught one by one, and persuaded to sign it. Now while this was going on here, others in one of the most populous and influential provinces, Canterbury* were petitioning the reverse way, by endeavor* ing to get our mode of electing a Superintend dent. He wished particularly to call the atten* tion of the country members to the fact that under the present system the Country was well represented, because it provided that property should be represented ; but under the other sys* tern | by the people] it would be giving to mete numbers of the people and not their interests, the right of electing the Superintendent who had no control over him afterwards. He had always maintained that both numbers and 1 pro* perty shoud be represented, and not one more than the other. The system in vogue in the old provinces only considered one interest, which ho conceived would be an injury. As the.case stood, if the different interests were not properly represented in the Council they should try to alter it there. 'They had seen what could be done by a Superintendent who even set the Council at defiance by proroguing it, and they were noW suffering from the course he took, as witness the roads at the present time j and hs wopld tak<t

his own course were lie again in power, as he did in Wellington. The Council represented the people and its interests, and it was for the Superintendent to carry out its opinions. In the other case he would be'independent, and another power. He wished the question calmly considered by the Council, and would regret to see the system reversed by a petition got up in Blenheim after a series of articles in the Express. He knew where the artists lived, and where they kept the paint. Pie knew something of the way petitions had been got up before, when Messrs Sinclair and Eyes got people to write their names on pieces of blank paper which tiiey pasted under headings that were never seen by the writers. He then referred to the last election for a Member of the General Assembly, which enabled Mr Eyes to boast in Wellington that he was elected by the people, but it did not matter so much now as they had not much money, nor likely to have, but he knew that if the people wjre canvassed, them opinion would be against a- ;y alteration of the present system of electing a Superintendent, which he maintained was infinitely better than the one proposed. In many cases, be know the people meant half-a-dozen active men. Mr Conolly seconded the motion.

Mr Ward rose again to say he would rather consider it [election by the Council] a power, than a privilege, conferred for the benefit of the country at large. After a brief pause during which no one seemed inclined to speak— His Honor Mr Seymour said it appeared that the motion would be carried unanimoiisly ; he regretted that the member for Lower Wairau [Mr Eyes] was not present to have taken up the question, and argued it from his side, as he saw no expression of dissatisfaction among those around him. He did not himself mean to discuss it, but he did not think it would be well for a small Province like this to change its form of Government.

Mr Robinsox said that before the vote was taken he should like to say a word or two. He did not consider the Council was aggrieved in the matter, and therefore he did not see why they should discuss it. It was the People who were aggrieved. He had heard a good deal from the mover (Mr Ward) at different times about the non-representation of property, and so forth, but he was enabled to say that neither he nor his colleague represented either property or people. But he would not go into the question now as to the best way of electing a Superintendent, for the motion was introduced for a purpose, knowing that they had a majority in the Council, who were representatives of a minority both as regarded the electors and property. The mover had told them that the majority did not represent property, but he (Mr Robinson) had constructed a small table based on the late Census and the valuations of the Road Boards, which showed that it did represent property. It was absurd to say that those who put the Superintendent there (in office), and kept him there, were aggrieved, but under a fair system of representation it might be nearer the truth. Was it fair that his own district—Blenheim—containing 800 inhabitants, being l-7th of the population of the whole Province, and holding l-6th of the property of the whole Province, should only have as much representation as the district represented by Mr Ward and his colleague, which only had l-27th of the population, and less than that proportion of the property, and a still smaller proportion of electors. There was no justice in the matter at all. He found the total annual value of the property in the Province was about £59,000, composed thus : —Town of Blenheim, about £9,000 ; County of Wairau, under £20,000; County of Awatero, £IO,OOO ; Kaikoura, £6,300; Picton County, £6,143 ; Pelorus, £2,743, exclusive of Havelock, which could not possibly exceed £1,400 ; and Picton, say £4,000. These latter two sums were difficult to get at, as their assessments were made on the value to sell, exclusive of buildings, &c. ; but he found the value of the land in Picton was under £12,000, or with improvements, £40,000. Now, allowing a very liberal per centage of 20 per cent., it would not exceed the amount stated ; Havelock, reckoned on the same basis, having land valued at £4,320, or £14,000 with improvements, at 20 per cent, gives £1,400. The population of these several districts was :—Town of Blenheim, 741, or l-7th of the whole, with two members ; County of Wairau, population 1,240, or l-sth of the whole, had five members ; Wairau Valley, population 114, or l-27th of the whole, had two members; Awatere, population 243, or l-21th of the whole, had two members ; Kaikoura, population 527, or 1-Ilth of the whole, had two members ; Picton (country, population 589, or l-9th of the whole, had one member; Pelorus, including the Goldfields and Havelock, population 781, or l-7th of the whole, had two members ; Queen Charlotte Sound, population 250, or l-20th of the whole, has one member ; Town of Picton, population 498, or l-10th of the whole, has three members. Was this a fair representation of mere numbers? Then, as to the representation of the value of property in the whole Province—Blenheim represented l-oth; Wairau, including Wairau Valley, l-3rd ; Awatere, l-6th ; Picton County, including the Sound, l-9th ; Picton (town), l-13th ; Pelorus, l-17th ; Kaikoura, l-9th ; Havelock, l-40th. Cheviot was about the only district fairly represented, both as regarded population and property ; while the Pelorus and Goldfields were under-repre-sented for population, but over-represented for property. Was this fairness and justice ? Or was it likely that those members representing districts that were over-represented would vote for the Superintendent being elected by the People? Compare the district represented by the mover, and that he (Mr Robinson) represented. He had gone into this caculation because they had heard so much about property not being represented. They had heard Mr Ward says it times out of number, “We represent property ; you only mere numbers.” But he found the representation was most unfair, otherwise he might allow the principle, but it never would be otherwise while Mr Ward got up and told them he represented the property, and. talked of amending the Representation Act, bpt he never would consent to amend it properly since it was a province. They had heard him talk a great deal about a petition got up last year, praying that the election of the Superintendent might be by the People, as in other Provinces; now ,there was not a single person

signed it, so far as he knew, but they understood it. Then as regards another matter connected with Mr Eyes and two or three others. They had heard his allusions to Mr Eyes and his Committee. He could toll them that no names were added without their consent, and what was more, Mr Griffiths had the letters to this day. But he understood how it was :no doubt people tell Mr Ward these things to humbug him. He knew how it was done ;he had been served so himself. Mr Ward had said Mr Eyes would get a few votes in the town, but none in the country, which resulted in a bet. It was his favorite theory that it was only the town that wanted Mr Eyes, but he could tell him that it was the Country that gave him the majority. He held that it was not a fair thing to get up there and say that for the people to petition for their rights was a breach of privilege ; the right in question was considered by them as a great privilege. By the present motion a great injustice was done to the electors, who had not been consulted on the subject by them ; nor was this body a proper one to discuss it, and he should therefore vote against the motion.

Mr Conolly regretted that the motion would not be discussed upon the broad principle without a reference to personal matters. He did not second the motion for the reasons given by Mr Ward, nor did he believethe Council represented property, rather than electors. He was aware that it did not adequately represent the electors as pointed out by the last speaker, and perhaps there were some other discrepancies, but he forgot that Awatere had two members who were opposed to the present Superintendent, and it could be shewn that he represented a majority of the people. All on the northern side of the Province were for him, with the centres of population, excepting Havelock, which was divided. But those who wore in favor of election by the people forgot that they would thereby take away the franchise from the miners who were not adequately represented, while the present system only deprived those whose names were not on the elect oral roll. The miners have it in their hands by the election of their members to influence largely the election of the Superintendent, as parties were constituted in the Council. By the other system owners of property would have the sole right of voting. As to the representation of the Province he agreed with much stated by the member for Blenheim, it never was fair, and he would not object to see an alteration. It might be equalised more, and the election of Superintendent might be a test question at the hustings. Provinces were originally so separated by natural causes as to be almost separate colonies ; it was then that the old system of election by the people was more necessary, but now that they had been as it were brought closer together, and more populated, and when with modern andrenewedexperiences, he thought it was better as in all corporate bodies, that they should elect their own head, believing with improved representation the Council would adequately represent the Province. Naturally he looked upon it from a town point of view, haring been sent there by a large constituency, which, although less than this [Blenheim] reformed three members. When he was first elected he was asked if he was in favor of election by the Council, to which he replied that ho was, yet he was returned, and had not since been asked. He never saw the petition which had been spoken of, but as it was but little signed in that district, he did not think the majority would be in favor of election by the people. Ho might think an alteration in the present mode of Provincial Government was desirable, When Mr Eyes brought forward his motion for changing the present system in favor of election by the people, it was thrown in his face that the Council had not been consulted, therefore he regretted that he was not here now to hear what was said on the subject. The Superintendent's speech brought it forward, not as a Government question, but asking the opinion of the Council, and in the absence of anything to the contrary, he must believe that they were opposed to any change. The proposed system would occasion much trouble and excitement over all the Province, which it was desirable to avoid, while there was no injustice by the present mode. They could not have a man who would be acceptable to the whole province ; or who would not be objected to by some portion. Again, the other mode was not satisfactory in some of the Provinces, as Canterbury. Once in Wellington the Superintendent when elected [Dr Featherstou] acted in defiance of the Council, under whose control he ought to be. Others had set the Councils at defiance in other Provinces. If it were a question of a re-distribution of seats, he was ready to go into it fairly at any time. Mr Carter said the question had been well bandied by the member for Blenheim from a town side of view, but Wairau Valley was a vjry v; 1 table property He did not know what value was to bo set on his figures, but he could tell him better if allowed to look over them, but no comparison could be made between the assessments for town and country. In assessing the country, property was not taken into account, otherwise they should add to the valuation for Wairau Valley 80,000 sheep, while the quartz reefs, said to be worth £20,000, were not even alluded to. The Act gave the power of voting very unfairly. A man in Blenheim employed in making boots had a vote if he held property worth £5 a year, but they had scores of men below £lO in the Wairau Valley who had no votes, and yet ought to be represented and have weight, but had not been reckoned. He was quite willing to continue the present system, as the other had not been more successful than our own, as had been recently shown in Nelson. Mr Ward rose in reply ; he said Mr Conolly had misunderstood him ; his grounds were that the present principle was better in theory, but he did not therefore maintain it was a proper representation of the people, but they should bring the question up and endeavor to correct it. It was nonsense to blind themselves to the fact that this was a mere struggle for power, because a former petition was opposed by Mr Eyes in Wellington, but he was then on his horse, and it was not worth the trouble to stir about it. He had never advocated the representation of property alone, but that it was a fallacy to rely on numbers. He had heard it said that Blenheim had only two members, while Picton had three, but he considered that the froportion of three for Picton, while Blenheim ad but two, was no more than fair, while the

Government was held here, on account of the distance they had to come preventing a regular attendance. —

Mr Robtnson said that sort of argument would not do, it had been exploded long ago. Mr Ward continued —The Province had been ruined by the very system you advocate being pursued in Wellington, where we are only represented by two or three to so many. Our Province was our all to us, as was Canterbury to the whole of its representatives. Yet they had no right to try and tyrannise over us because we were smaller and fewer in number. As to Mr Robinson's comparisons between the valuations of the several districts, they did not represent the real value of the properties, being only comparative not absolute ; in some instances being more than the real value ; but to compare the valuation of Blenheim with those of other districts is all nonsense. Where was the great gx-ievauce of the present system of Representation, and why had not the government sought to have it remedied ; no complaint was made about it until Mr. Eyes lost his ascendancy, and when he was in Wellington he talked about it with Sir David Monro, when they came to the conclusion that it was not worth while to try to alter it. The Province was put to a great expense by the actions of a few persons in Blenheim who had got a newspaper into their hands, and some brilliant effusions in the Kaikoura Herald were inspired by the same clique. The fight would have to be fought over again, and this was only a bit of sparring by the way. Mr. Robinson told them the signatures were genuine, but he (Mr. Ward) knew they were not. Because some persons were prevented from drinking in the hall, a clique was got up, and the government were threatened with all sorts of things. Adam Smith, who was one of the greatest axxthoritics of the age, told them that the greatest evils proceeded from the towns. He hoped that in future their cobblers would continue to mend their boots, and their tailors their breeches, and let the country people mind their own business. Then the people’s wishes would be centred in the Council and the Executive. At the last election for the Assembly there was an oi'ganisation on the one side, and nene on the other, but it was only a mere difference of opinion between the two, for one was bad, while the other was good for nothing. The unfairness of the representation under the existing system was more on account of the difficulties in the way of getting persons’ names on the roll in the country, where they could . not get the requisite forms, while there was every convenience in the towns. The whole thing was rotten, and he would prefer Manhood Suffrage, for while the manager of a station could not vote, any man in Blenheim even if out of employment could have a vote if he had a house. Mr. Carter said that in order to remedy it they must get miners’ rights for all their shepherds.

The division was then taken as follows ;

Ayes ( for the motion ) 6. —Messrs. Seymour, Conolly, Carter, Chaytor, Ward, and Rutland. Noes s.—Messrs, Paul, Blick, Robinson, Sinclair, and Douslin. Messrs Hodson, Baillic, Western, and Turner remained in the anteroom, notwithstanding the invitation of the Speaker, to come out and vote, therefore he declared the motion carried. Mr. Robinson said he hoped the division would have groat weight with the House of Representatives.