POLITICAL.

Lyttelton Times, Volume LXVI, Issue 7926, 31 July 1886, Page 5

POLITICAL.

[Bx Telegraph.] [from our special coeeebpondent.] WELLINGTON, July 30. KAIMANAWA COMMITTEE. The question of Judge Fenton before this Committee has, taken another turn. Mr Bell, counsel for Judge Fenton, this morning referred to the Premier's memorandum in very strong terms, arguing before the Committee that it was an unfair and prejudicial course the Premier had taken. At the same time objection was taken by many of the Com-"' mittee to the presence of Sir B. Stout, on the ground that his action as judge (which he is as a member of the Committee) is not compatible with his position aa accuser. Sir Robert, who only joined the Committee at the earnest request of several of its members, who urged that his presence would shorten deliberation on account of his acquaintance with the great mass of papers in the case, has signified his willingness to retire from the Committee's deliberations. He will, however, write a reply to Mr Bell's speech. Mr Fenton, in his evidence, has pointed out that his functions as Chief Judge of the Native Land Court were executive as well aa judicial, and maintained that all the letters objected to in the Premier's memorandum were written in his executive capacity. The Premier has once more made it clear that he never attacked Mr Fenton's integrity, but addressed himself in reality to the Bystem. DECEASED PERSONS ESTATE DUTIES. Mr Downie Stewart is to move to prevent the retrospective effect of this measure. MR MiCANDREW. Practical people ask what is the use of putting men on land when they have no means ? Give a man who has nothing a piece of land, where will he get tools, implements, seed, and, in some cases, even knowledge? How will he get his breakfast to-morrow, or a blanket for tonight ? Can he go to his bankers and say—l have put in a lot of potatoes.; give me an advance to keep me till they grow and become fit for food? To these, the reply is made that the local bodies to whom lands are given for this purpose must maintain the new landowners ; or rather (to coin a word from Mr Macandrew'a resolutions) " the beneficial occupiers," by employing them on necessary works until they can realise on their produce. LOAN BILL. There is great excitement as to the Ministerial explanation expected to-day about the schedule. Ministers are very reticent, and I know of no one who even pretends to have penetrated their secret. Here and there a wise man says the Premier favours this and the' Treasurer favours that, but the wiseacres have for the last six months been doing nothing else but declaring thatthese two are at variance. It is useless to repeat, therefore, what views they put into either mouth. The two lines struck out, on which the £175,000 was to have been spent, formed the key to the Public Works policy. Ministers had placed these on the schedule, to connect with the Midland, as giving a complete trunk system ins itisfaction of the Canterbury, Nelson, and Westland claims to justice. From this you will see that Minis- ' ters by no means regarded the Midland as sufficient for these districts, and knew of no " tacit understanding" to that effect, such as the Opposition freely cast in the teeth of the Nelson and Canterburymembers., When the lines were struck out, Sir Julius at once told the Committee that they had left these districts without a share of the loan. Not long after this, Mr Holmes made that vigorous protest of his, and Mr Allwright followed, and then Sir Julius enlarged. It is a pity the Canterbury members did not all understand the object of the schedule. If they had done so, they would probably have all voted together. They might perhaps have saved the Westport; this is doubtful; but the Tophouse was past praying for from the first. ' A LITTLE UNPLEASANTNESS. Growing out of the heated discussion of the early morning, there was a little . unpleasantness yesterday afternoon. Mr Fergus, it seems, had said something rough to a neighbour about the GreymouthHokitika line, in an undertone too loud to conceal his meaning from Mr Bevan. That gentleman brought the matter before the Speaker, who after a little fencing, said that he must ask Mr Fergus for an explanation. Whereupon that gentleman, apologised, explained that he had not intended Mr Bevan to hear his remark, and was complimented by the Speaker for having behaved like a gentleman in the matter. The incident is interesting as showing how much wound up hon members were during the debates of the small hours last night. THE HOSPITAL AND CHARITABLE AID BILL. consumed the evening sitting in Committee. Everybody- was reasonable, and went home to bed at a reasonable hour— - representation, schedules, and every thingtroublesome, including that unhappy measure, the Dog .Registration Bill, being; postponed. THE BEER BILL. The objecting brewers and their having come to their senses in this matter, this Bill has again made its appearance on the Order Paper. THE MAORI PRISONERS. On the application of Mr Bees, who has been retained by Te Whiti and the others, bail was fixed at £250 each for Te Whiti and Titokowaru, and £IOO for the others. The bail will be forthcoming, and Te Whiti and the others will be released during the afternoon. They will etay with "the Maoris here, not returning to theii" own country. . The Native Minister, on being informed of the decision, said he was satisfied. He relied always on the ordinary operation of the ordinary law. Titokowaru is in the Hospital, and will probably beobliged to stay there for some time, as he isvery infirm and weak. THE LAND PURCHASE COMMITTEE have just completed their report, which will be submitted this afternoon. As I anticipated, it exonerates Government, although the voting was very close. Mr Holmes was absent owing to his accident, and Major Atkinson courteously refrained from voting, in order that Mr Holmes' vote,, although not given, might really have effect as against his own. The report cf the Committee iB as follows: —*' Resolved, on the motion of Mr Levestam, that Government were justified in paying for the property the price they did. Resolved, on the motion of Mr Dargaville, that the weight of evidence goes to show that the property could not have been obtained for • a less amount in the Compensation Court."' These resolutions were both carried by six. to five, Sir Julius Vogel and the Hon J. Ballance voting for, them. Mr Mosa (Chairman) said he would have voted*, against them if he had had a- ! vote. Mr Peacock moved the following, amendment to Mr Levestam's resolution—i " That the purchase of tbe property was made without sufficient enquiry as to the value of the property, and apparently f romthat cause the price was much in excess of the rate at which the best part of theproperty had been offered to private individuals within a short time of the sale made to Government, and at which time property in Auckland and its suburbs was equal if not of higher value." As I said,»this- , amendment was loßt by six to five, the : voting being as follows:—Ayes—Levestam, Dargaville, Cowan, Vogel, Gore, Ballance % Noes—Peacock, Newman, Wilson, Montgomery, Barron. Had Major Atkinson, voted, Mr Moss would have decided the ' tie in favour of the amendment. Mr ' Peacock moved as an amendment to . [Mr Dargaville's resolution—" That th*re

is reason to believe that making all allowance": for the alleged tendency of Compensation Courts to give decisions disadvantageous to Government, the property couldhave been purchased at a lower price in such Court." This also was lost, the voting being the same as before. The amendment was modified to suit MrDargaviUe, but he voted against it. Mr Peacock then moved-" That it is desirable that careful and deliberate enquiry should be made by Government or its agents in the purchase of property for public purposes, especially as such property can always be acquired, after free local enquiry, in the Compensation Court." This amendment was also negatived, the voting being still unchanged. Oppositionists say the Ministers present should have refrained from voting. LOAN BILL—THE CABINET'S RECOMMENDATION. The Cabinet at its meeting has just decided to ask the House to allow the £175 000 struck out the other night, to remain unallotted for the present, but reserved for railways in the Middle Island, to be appropriated by Act to that object. LIBEL. The writs served by Mr Travers, yesterday, at Sir Julius Vogel's instance, were brought against the Evening Press, .for two alleged distinct libels, and £ISOO is claimed in each case. No action has been taken against the New Zealand Times at present. HOSPITALS AND CHARITABLE INSTITUTIONS BILL. The chief part of the afternoon was occupied with this measure, which is not yet done with. The great struggle in the afternoon was over the question of the subdivision of districts. The representatives of some districts wanted to make separate districts of the Counties of Piako, Wairarapa, Ashburton and Waimate. The Premier, in charge of the Bill, resisted strenuously. Mr Whyte came first,with Piako, but 'he had to succumb to the Premier's superior strength. He said it was a catch division, and he would ask at the proper time for the recommittal of the Bill. The Wairarapa members came to the front with considerable eagerness, and their usual pugnacity, but they fell before the victorious Premier who had the majority with him. Mr Walker, finding his turn come at last, was not disheartened. On the contrary, he Bpoke with great vigour for the separation of his County. It was not local government at all for the people to have to go to Christchurch from Ashburton. He could never go to Christchurch and return the same day. It was far easier to go toTimaru. The present arrangement was unworkable and unjust,- he declared energetically, and urged the Premier to complete his own measure in its integrity, by giving him the separation he asked for. The Premier was fairly roused. He begged the House to smite and spare not. They had refused Piako and Wairarapa. They must refuse Ashburton. This was not a case of town against country at all. If it were, then Akaroa and Ashloy, and many other parts of the Canterbury district, would have a far better claim than Ashburton. He very earnestly begged the House to reject this application by a majority large enough to discourage further applications. The unwonted spectacle of the Premier and one of the Government Whips at variance, warmed up Colonel Trimble to ask the Premier if this was to be regarded as t. party vote. A division ensuing, the Premier escaped defeat by a narrow majority. The Opposition took a malicious pleasure in going into the lobby with Mr Walker, so that, it was as much as the Government could do to carry their point. When Major Steward came with his proposal for Waimate the Premier left him to Captain Sutter, who triumphantly secured his defeat by a large majority. The chief argument on the side of Major Steward was that the Waimate people wanted it, Captain Sutter saying in reply, chiefly, that Major Steward wanted Waimate to include the whole country up to within six miles of Timaru. Mr Pearson made an attempt to get the differential principle of rating introduced, but he wa3 ruled out of order. He had had a splendid innings over night. He had shown great pluck and skill, but he had been, so to speak, bowled out. He found that he cannot be allowed to go in again until he has been through the fielding process of the recess. AFTER DINNER, the Beer Bill and the Deceased Persons Bill were advanced more or less, and a number of Bills coming down with amendments from the other House were dealt with, and a Committee appointed to search the records of the Council in order to see what has become of the Local Bodies'Loans Bill. Thi3 search for a Bill means that the Government did not want to lose one of the important Government measures of the session. Just as before, the Managers of the Houses failed to agree. REDUCTION OF GOLD DUTY. The Speaker of the Legislative Council ruled to-day that the Gold Duty Reduction Bill which the Lower House passed the other day could not be introduced, and was practically the same as a measure which the Council had already disposed of earlier in the session. In consequence of this the goldfields' members are to meet to arrange for action. They will probably ask|the House on Monday to appoint a Committee to enquire into the fate of the Bill, and to report upon the right of the Speaker of the Council to disallow the introduction of a measure previously ruled in order by the Speaker of the Lower House. There will be what is vulgarly called "a row." The mtasure that was rejected proposed to provide for the gradual abolition of the Gold Duty. The present measure proposes to provide for its gradual reduction to a shilling per ounce. The two Speakers have differed over it. Therefore reduction of duty and abolition of duty are practically the same thing. j THE LOAN BILL. The way cleared by postponement, this formidable measure came up again for discussion. It was first seen in the guise of the message from the Governor, recommending the House to appropriate out of the loan the sum of -£175,000 for railways in the Middle Island. The Opposition sat in apparent astonishment and evident consultation. When the whole matter had got into Committee, • Major Atkinson moved to report progress and ask leave to eit again, and so led off into a discussion on the necessity of reporting •debates in Committee. This lasted a little time, during which the Opposition insisted on the importance of the subject, upon what they called the new departure of the Government, upon their' distrust of the Treasurer, on the question of a breach of faith, on the necessity of instructing the country, on the propensity of Government to stifle discussion, and many other things. The Treasurer said that when one came to consider the many combinations that would occur durinar a Ion? debate, and the fact that in each of these combinations, each member would try to get the last word, one came unavoidably to the conclusion that it would be better not to report in Committee. On his side, it was held that Hansard reports would not instruct the country at all, and it was insinuated that hon members wanted to speak to their constituents. Mr Turnbull told Mr Rolleston that he was always showing off his patriotism at the expense of the South Island. After this preliminary canter of discussion, the Committee divided ,on the question of reporting progress, the Government winning by four. Then the Minister of Pnblic Works threw in the apple of discord by proposing the addition to the schedule of the item "£175,000 to*Jbe allotted for railways in the South Island.", i • \ Major Atkinson made a short, vigorous Speech, attacking the Premier with vir-

tuoua indignation for his departure from his established principles. He had broken every pledge; it would take him years to recover his reputation; he had abandoned statesmanship for the policy of saving discussion between the North and South. Sir Eobert good-humouredly said that all this ferocity was part of the by-play the Major -was obliged to make use of. He would explain, however, that Major Atkinson himself had admitted that the necessary amount of the loan was a million and a half. He added that if the loan were lessened now anew one would be required earlier than 1888. No harm would be done to the Colony by not spending the money this year. On the contrary, it would be more economical than to allocate the money now, and spend it at once. It was necessary to keep the balance of the schedule between the two Islands. As long as public money is spent, it will have to be spent in full obedience to that necessity. No Government could afford to disregard it. He and his colleagues were prepared to do justice to the South; those opposing the Government wanted to devote money to the North. . After the Premier had spoken and the Opposition leader had replied, that each had to allocate the money, even if they do not intend to spend the money this year, Mr Hursthouse became strong on the question of reduction, for he had voted for the excision of the two railways from the schedule on the understanding that the Premier had promised to reduce the loan in accordance with remarks made in another speech, and then all the heat died out of the discussion, and the speeches came over to business. Mr Montgomery regarded the item as " carrots," and he would not vote for it. " Carrots," it appeared, were used in leading legislative donkeys into Ministerial lobbies. The Opposition pressed the Government with the reduced schedule in this matter. He agreed with the Opposition case, as stated by Colonel Trimble, and echoed by the Opposition speakers; — \ •■distrusted the Premier's reply," said the Colonel, " which was ambiguous. They had got the Premier to state the Government's intention, and the Premier distinctly promised to lower the loan to the lowered schedule." Major Atkinson, who had said he was of opinion that this new amount ought to be divided between both Islands, declared that if the Premier showed him profitable works he would vote for them wherever they might be. Mr Bryce also, who had been lying by for a long time, at last raised the question of breach of faith. The question was far more serious than that of the amount of a loan. It was of whether the statements of public men were to be believed. Mr Dargaville said the Premier had distinctly told him, in answer to a question in face of the Committee, that in the event of reduction of the schedule he held himself at liberty to place the amount back on the schedule by message from the Governor. Upon this point Mr Dargaville was very emphatic and very explicit. Sir Julius Vogel said he had expected an apology from Mr Bryce for what he had said the other night about a breach of faith. He quoted from the New Zealand Times' report of what he had said, and from the Association report, and the Lyttelton Times, which paper, he was good enough to say, was the best in the Colony, whereat a broad smile went round the House and the galleries. For what reason, it is quite impossible for me to say. Mr Bryce rose to correct, not to apologise. He said the Treasurer had bound himself to reduce the loan. Colonel Trimble, who got up already (10.15) for the tenth time, said the Lyttelton Times, the Association, and the New Zealand Times, might all agree as to what the Treasurer and the Premier had said, but that would not alter what they had said. They had committed themselves to the reduction of the loan, and thereby deceived the House. Mr Kerr carried the war into the enemy's country by describing the waste of the Treasury on Taranaki railways, after which he dwelt on the neglect of Canterbury, Nelson and Westland. Mr Ormond objected to voting money without allocation. Sir Julius Vogel, after supper, (so long had the discussion lasted) said, warmly, that the charge of breach of faith had broken down, but hon members had not had the good taste to apologise. He defended, with equal warmth, the policy of fairly balancing the schedule, and insisted on the necessity of borrowing the full amount of £1,500,000. He warned the House of the importance of the full amount to the scheme of finance upon it. He threw the responsibility on the House of any reduction. If the House chose to reduce the amount, the Government would have to ratify it. Major Atkinson said that he would take no responsibility. If the Treasurer required this margin, he ought to have said so before. Sir Julius explained that from the ordinary practice, this was self-evident. It was never expedient to spend the last shilling of the Public Works Fund. Major Atkinson said that what the Treasurer meant now was that he wanted a working balance. Major Atkinson went on to say that if the Government really wanted a working balance, he would asrree to give them any reasonable amount they required. Mr Whyte and Mr Barron took part in the discussion. The Treasurer read notes that had passed between himself and the Controller-General, showing that the Bill prevented any diversion of the amounts specially allocated. Mr Hatch was ready to propose a new allocation. The Treasurer reiterated thenecessity of the full amount. Dr Newman chaffed the Government with an offer to have a North Island Committee to allocate this money, and said, if the Government would allocate it themselves, he was sure the Houee would support them. Colonel Trimble said a few words, and the House went to a division. Before Dr Newman's remarks the Treasurer had pointed out that there are three alternatives in ca3e of reduction of the schedule:—(l) Curtailment of expenditure this year; (2) borrowing from the North Island Trunk loan; and (3) borrowing next year. • The division placed the Ministers in a minority of two. ! The Bill was then reported to the House. The Treasurer moved its recommittal for the purpose of reducing the money clause, and made a final protest. Major Atkinson, who got time to extend his remarks, made a most exhaustive and vigorous criticism of the Ministerial reasoning of the night, taking his revenge for the famous " baby in finance" speech the Treasurer had hurled at him in 1881. A discussion arose and continued for some time.