POLITICAL.

Lyttelton Times, Volume LXV, Issue 7864, 20 May 1886, Page 5

POLITICAL.

[By Telegraph.]

[from our special reporter.]

WELLINGTON, May 19.

Last night’s debate is this morning discussed with considerable satisfaction, chiefly as a pleasant interlude not unduly prolonged; in fact, a rather enjoyable way of getting through the unavoidable. The chief object of the Opposition in raising the debate at all, was to avoid the appearance of approving the Government policy, which silence might have given rise to, as it did last year. The House was unusually full for the early period of the session, only some half-dozen members being absent. This is referred to this morning with general satisfaction. The honours of the debate seem to be generally allowed to Mr Ballance, which is but fair, for Mr Ballance was the only speaker who really had any occasion to take a serious view of things. It is very plain that Mr Ballance’s temperately vigorous defence of hia administration has met with general approval on both sides. So much I judge from conversation I have had with members of the Opposition. Mr Taylor, this morning, was discussed in the lobbies sympathetically. Looking at him as he spoke last night, I failed to see that he was nervous. The truth is—and most of the members allow for it in discussing his first appearance—that though he tried not to look nervous, he forgot the speech he had prepared with some care. The fact is that it is, as most men who have done it know, a very trying thing to address that Housa for the first time, with its deposit of traditions, and some of the greatest speakers staring him in the face. That was the reason that Mr Taylor never got beyond the local references he made. In the House, exclusive reference to the wants of a member’s district is, on such an occasion, of course not defensible, except on the theory which the generous experience of hon members has made them adopt. But in Canterbury the sensation of having a member hardy enough to tell the whole House that though the West Coast Railway is not in the way, Canterbury is still entitled to her fair share of what is going on, is refreshing. Canterbury will sympathise with Mr Taylor in that he lost the necessary thread of his speech, hut Canterbury can hardly regret that he said as much as he did. Mr Moss’ reference to the purchase of the land at, Takapuna for purposes of defence is talked of somewhat this morning. There is an idea in many quarters that Mr Moss was right. According to those who profess to be well informed, the land in question was valued eighteen months or two years ago at ,£3500, and was sold the other day to the Government for .£17,000. It is broadly stated that this is the result of au astutely-laid plot to victimise the Government. The probability is that the whole matter will he remitted to a Select Committee. Sir George Grey’s little string of resolutions will also probably be handed over to a Committee. Nobody believes, of course, that he will induce the House to call for papers which are confidential. The argument as to the weighty nature of the matters involved, with the obligations that hedge round all confidential communicacations, is not generally believed in. The general impression is that Sir George stole a march in getting the Premier to agree to discuss something which turned out to be this string of resolutions; but many members who think the matter not ripe for debating, consequently favour the appointment of a Select Committee. So far, I cannot discover anything further as to the correctness of the last cables about the New Hebrides. These cables are, when carefully compared, found to he contradictory. There is a general consensus of opinion on the Government side that the Premier’s reference of last night (during the debate on the Address in Reply) to the Ministerial policy, was a strong hint to the Government supporters to beep themselves in proper discipline. It was much as if he had said, " The Government, being united, expects a united party, and will have no other.”

In this connection it is perhaps curious to hear that the party is bringing some pressure on the Government to retrench. The opinion of Ministers about the impossibility of departmental retrenchment is pretty well known. That opinion, it seems to be the aim of their supporters to test to the utmost. In the abstract, retrenchment is, of course, perfectly unobtainable. Another statement of the Premier’s is going the rounds of the lobbies, and meeting with approval. I mean the statement that we attempt too much legislation nowadays. Hon members augur an improvement in the quality of the legislation and their own health. When the formal business connected

with the Address in Reply had been disposed of, Mr , O’Callaghan’s intervention in favour of the shepherd convicted of kicking his dog to death, came on, and was not successful, the Minister declining to interfere with the decision of the Ashburton tribunal. Mr Hatch came forward soon after, as the champion of the seal fisheries, the case of which is interesting to the general public, which cannot understand why these fisheries should he leased at all by tender or otherwise; but the Minister could only promise full information, as on a former occasion. Among the Bills introduced after the questions, and read a first time, some very important measures will be noticed. Amongst them are the Limitation of Land Bill, by which the Premier makes the long-delayed assault on the " dead hand,” and the three Bills embodying Mr Ballance’s Native land policy. Sir George Grey’s Bill for the expropriation of lands was postponed till to-morrow for the consent of the Crown, the Speaker ruling that, as the permission given during last session could cover only that session, the Bill would have to begin de novo. It was nearly four o’clock when Sir G. Grey rose to move his resolutions. His speech was warm, telling, and much applauded by the House. It was a strong denunciation of injustice and a high plea for that kind of justice which fears nothing, favours nothing, and forgets nothing. “No boon should benefit us,” said Sir G. Grey, when he got to the climax of his speech, " and no threat of danger deter us from honourably insisting that the disposal of their destinies rests with the people of these islands.” Giving reasons for his refusal of the proposal made to him by the Premier during the day to refer the matter to a Select Committee, Sir George waxed truly eloquent. " There is only one conclusion,” he said in his very finest manner, "for honest men to come to. What confidential despatch can make wrong right or injustice just? Has Lord Granville any hold on us? When this proposal was made to him by the French Government to barter away rights of free people without their consent, did the noble lord, like a noble-minded Englishman, scorn that proposal as it deserved to be scorned ? No! but, like a trickster, he had at once said, f Let us get an island for ourselves.’ ” A very fine peroration, in which Sir George solemnly urged the House to give a noble example to all nations and remember the judgment of an interested and intelligent posterity, ended one of the most eloquent speeches he has ever delivered in the House.

The Premier was as warm and emphatic as Sir George, insisting that the Government had done more to advocate the independence of the New Hebrides than any other which had sat on those benches. But things had, he explained, changed. The New Hebrides had| virtually passed under the French flag, and a convention between France and Germany had been made, by which the New Hebrides might become French property. The resolutions he objected to, because—(l) They were inaccurate, not representing facts; (2) it would he impossible to send any resolutions to the Queen on the word of an honorable member who had called one of her Ministers a trickster; (3) no resolution would be unanimously passed, and without unanimity it would be better in such an important matter not to move at all. He hinted that Sir George’s old feud with Lord Granville had warped his judgment a little. Lord Granville on a certain occasion, they.all remembered, had used strong expressions about Sir George, too strong, no doubt, but now Sir George had permitted himself to go beyond the bounds of propriety of expression. He moved to amend the resolutions by substituting a Committee to consider the whole question of the New Hebrides and other islands, whose verdict the House could unanimously adopt and give effect to.

Mr Downie Stewart secured the next place to the Premier for a speech denouncing baiter, but favourable to the idea of a Committee, as he recognised the necessity for unanimity. Major Atkinson said a few grave, sensible words, laudatory of Sir George Grey’s connection with the Pacific Question, which had lasted for 40 years, regretting the neglect of the Colony to accept the Federal Council, which would have saved all this trouble, strongly in support of Sir George Grey’s ideas of justice, and favouring the Committee on the double ground of the necessity# for unanimity, and the feasibility of placing a Committee in possession of confidential communications, which he argued must always he respected. In defence of the secrecy of confidential communications. Major Atkinson sustained what the Premier had very fully said before him.

Mr Macandrew rose, as the father of the House, to second Sir G. Grey’s efforts after justice and the Premier’s plan to secure unanimity by means of a Committee. Mr Montgomery preferred the resolutions, which he cordially accepted and endorsed, to a Committee with power to inquire into the expediency of justice. He suggested a short resolution for the Committee, of unmistakeable character, after which it might go into the question of the Pacific as much as it liked.

Mr Beetham suggested that the whole of the resolutions should go to the Committee, and Mr M'Kenzie thought the Committee should have before it all or nothing. At the half-past five adjournment, the House separated, leaving groups of negotiators on the floor, the Premier in confab with the leader of the Opposition and others. Sir G. Grey with Mr Beetham, Mr Reese, and several others, earnestly discussing. At the evening sitting the matter was, after a few remarks from a couple of members, arranged, the Premier withdrawing his amendment and Sir G. Grey withdrawing hia motion. The Premier gave notice for to-morrow of a motion to appoint a Committee, and the reference to that Committee of the resolutions debated. During the afternoon, Mr Fisher made a point during bis speech in favour of the colonising power of the French nation, as shown by the French settlement of so many of the United States, and by the fact that more than half the population of the Canadian Dominion is, at this day, French. It is a view of the French nation which, as Mr Fisher said, is too much lost sight of now-a-days. Before the proceedings closed. Sir G. Grey made an explanation that he had spoken out of honest indignation rather than from any feeling against any one. At the same time, he exhorted the House not to pay any attention to the position of statesmen outside the Colony, however powerful they might be in conferring rewards of a temporary nature. The Speaker here stopped Sir G. Grey from making a speech, whereupon the Premier said he was glad he had drawn an apology from the hon member. Sir George Grey denied that he had made any apology, and the matter dropped. The House having got to the end of the order paper, soon after rose.