PARLIAMENTARY.

Lyttelton Times, Volume LXV, Issue 7864, 20 May 1886, Page 5

PARLIAMENTARY.

[Per Press Association.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, Mat 19. The Council met at 2.30 p.m. The Hon P. Buckley presented a paper relative to the leasing of special settlements. The Hon W. Swanson presented a petition from 797 residents of New Zealand, complaining that special favours were shown to Cardinal Moran, and honours heaped upon him by the Government on the occasion of that prelate’s recent visit to Auckland. The Hon P. Buckley hoped the petition -contained nothing of an offensive character, either to the Council, or to the Holy Roman Empire. Of course, the hon member who presented the petition was responsible for the wording of the document, but he desired that hon members should not be placed in a false position. ' The Hon W. Swanson replied that he was not aware that the petition contained anything of an offensive character. The Council decided that the petition should be read. It complained that the Government steamer had been despatched from Auckland to meet the steamer in which Cardinal Moran arrived at Auckland; that special favours were shown him, and special honours heaped upon him by the Government, and that upwards of twenty policemen, in uniform, formed part of the procession. The petition expressed the hope that, as there was no State Church in ' the Colony, similar favours should not again be bestowed on any dignitary of any Church visiting New Zealand. . ' The Hon P. Buckley considered that as “the petition had been read, names should also be read. The Hon W. Swanson had no objection to this course being pursued. He believed the signatures were genuine. The motion for reading the names of the signatures was seconded by Colonel Brett, but not being pressed, was not put, and the subject dropped. The Hon P. Buckley gave notice on the next day of sitting, to move—- " That a Committee, consisting of the Speaker, the Hons W. D. H. Baillie, T. Fraser, Dr Pollen, W. Reeves, W. H. Reynolds, Colonel Brett, and the mover be appointed to draw up a congratulatory address to Her Majesty the Queen, on the occasion of Her Majesty’s jubilee.” The -Hon P. Buckley introduced the following Bills, which were read a first time ; the second readings being made an order for Friday next:—Defence Act, 1886, and Police Force Act, 1886. The formal presentation of the Address-in-Eeply to the Governor then took place, and on resuming the Council adjourned to Friday. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. AFTERNOON SITTING. Wednesday, May 19. The House met at 2.30. SIB ERSKINB MAT. The Speaker said he desired to express to the House his deep regret at the death of Sir Thomas Erskine May, the wellknown Parliamentary authority, news of which had been received by that day’s cable. QUESTIONS. to Mr M‘Arthur, whether Government intend to introduce a Representation Bill this session, the Hon S. Stout said he hoped it would not be necessary to introduce a Representation Bill altogether, but only to deal with those districts where the increase of population required it. Replying to Mr O’Callaghan, whether attention has been drawn to a sentence pronounced in the Ashburton Resident Magistrate’s Conrt on one John Gilchrist, of four months’ imprisonment with hard labour for cruelty to a dog, and whether such sentence is, in the Minister’s opinion, proportionate to the offence, the Hon J. A, Tolb said he was not in a position as yet to make any explanation of the matter, not having received any information on it. Replying to Mr Parata whether Government will be prepared to bring in a Bill during the present session empowering the Native Land Court to subdivide lands granted to Maoris in the South Island, also lands not yet granted, the Hon J. Ballance said Government had given notice of a Bill to give effect to this matter. Replying to Mr Pulton, who asked when the reports in connection with the administration of the Rabbit Act will be laid before the House, the Hon J. A. Tole said reports were being printed and would be laid on the table. Replying to Mr Joyce, if the Minister of Lands, in view of the protests he has received against leasing the seal fisheries, proposes to consider any of the tenders which may have been sent in; and further, if he will engage that none shall he accepted without having been submitted to the House for its approval, the Hon J. Ballance said no tender had yet been received, and provisions for leasing would be laid before the House. NEW BILLS. The following Bills were introduced:— Alienation of Land Bill (Hon E. Stout), New Plymouth Recreation Reserves Bill (Major Atkinson), Native Reserve Crown Grants Empowering Bill, the Native Land Administration Bill, and a Bill to Amend and Consolidate the Laws relating to the Native Land Court (Hon J. Ballance), City of Dunedin Leasing Bill (Hon E. Stout), a Bill to provide for the Limitation of Votes at the Election of Members of the House of Representatives (Sir G. Grey), a Bill to regulate the admission of persons to practice in Courts of Law (Sir G. Grey). RETURNS. Mr Johnston moved for a return showing the amount of difference, if any, between the sum last session under the heading of interest and sinking fund and the amount actually paid out by the Treasury for interest and sinking fund for the year ended March 31 last; also a return showing amount, if any, of sinking fund which has been paid into the Public Works funds, under section 9 of the " Consolidated Stock Act, 1884.” Agreed to. Dr Newman moved for a return—(l), stating the names of members of the Waste Lands Boards in the Colony, with the date of their appointment; (2), the number of attendances of individual members; (3), the honorarium received by each; (4), the travelling expenses allowed by the Land Board to each member, such return to date from Jan. 1, 1882, to March 31,1886. Agreed to. Mr Hobbs moved for a return showing the amounts paid by the Treasury, or any ether department connected with the public service, to each member of the Legislative Council and House of Representatives for services rendered, and otherwise, during the years 1885 and 1886, over and above the amount of the honorarium, together with the names of members and amounts paid in each case where the

amount paid has exceeded the amount of the honorarium. Agreed to. THE NEW HEBRIDES. Sir G. Grey gave notice of the resolutions referring to the New Hebrides question, which were telegraphed yesterday. He said no more important motion was ever brought forward, as the opinion expressed by the New Zealand Parliament on this question was looked forward to with great interest in every part of the world. He hoped no party feeling would he imported into the debate that might arise on it. He spoke on the whole question at great length, and said for a long period of years the inhabitants of New Zealand had endeavoured to promote the happiness and well-being of the New Hebrides Islands, and he asked the House to adhere to this beneficent manner of helping the Islands. He also asked the House to say, that, whilst European nations were striving to get possession of these Islands, the House should in no way sanction by its approval any attempt made to take possession of those countries, and will not consent to any Foreign Power taking that which they had no right themselves to take. As to referring the question to a Select Committee, he thought he was doing right in not entertaining the idea. It was a question which should be decided with the least possible delay, which would not be effected by a Committee. Tt was not a right thing to hand over a large body of men to a power which possibly they might dislike, and would not be content to remain under. No confidential despatch from Lord Granville should influence the House. Lord Granville had approached the question like a trickster. He (Sir George Grey) thought there was nothing to go to a Committee, and there was but one conclusion, that honest men could come to on it. He asked Parliament to do the right thing speedily, and to think of the magnitude of the transaction. He also asked them to consider that, if they allowed the New Hebrides to go, it was not at all certain that the French would discontinue transportation to the Islands. Other Governments would come into power in France, and would refuse to be bound by previous Governments. He believed that if the House took the action he advocated, they would do justice to large numbers of people, and strike a chill in the hearts of those European statesmen who were endeavouring to do such great wrong. The Hon E. Stout said he had no desire to approach the question in a party spirit, and was surprised that Sir George Grey had ,not consulted some other member, so as to get something like a unanimous decision. The hon gentleman had neither consulted Government nor the leader of the Opposition, and he contended it was not a proper position for him to take up. He (Mr Stout) said the Government had not been neglectful in the matter of the New Hebrides. On the contrary, they had been moving in it almost ever since they took office, and had repeatedly pressed on the Home Government the urgent necessity for Britain taking action in the New Hebrides question. In correspondence, also, with the Agent - General, he had urged no less than seven reasons why the New Hebrides should not be given to France. The House must also understand that an arrangement was made between Germany and France, that Germany would not stand in the way of France obtaining the New Hebrides. After reading some correspondence on the matter, the Premier said the position was that the Great Powers, Prance and Germany, had arranged that Prance might take the islands and Germany would offer no opposition. The Government had also pointed out to the Home Government that if the New Hebrides were to go, they must have some concession to make up for it. He concluded that Sir George Grey's resolutions could not be sent to the Queen in their present form, because the statements made in them were not accurate. As to the confidential despatches referred to by Sir G. Grey, he said there must be confidential despatches between Government and the Agent - General. If it were not so, the position of the Agent-General would be altogether unnecessary. Why, the hon gentleman himself had spoken of receiving confidential despatches from Victoria on this question! He would ask the House—Was it desirous for all parties in the House to pass some resolution on the New Hebrides question ? He thought the better way of dealing with it would be by referring it to a Select Committee, which would recommend some resolution which would be agreed to unanimously, and not as in other cases by probably a narrow majority. He would also ask the House to consider what effect the resolutions moved by Sir G. Grey would have, especially as coming from a gentleman who formerly had a personal feud with Earl Granville, and who had referred to Earl Granville as a trickster. He proposed, instead of the resolutions being adopted, that the following be substituted —“That a Committee be appointed to consider the question of the action this Colony should pursue in the New Hebrides question, the Committee to consist of Major Atkinson, Sir George Grey, Messrs Montgomery, Macandrew, Moss, Eolleston, Beetham, Sir J. Vogel, and the mover.” He would ask the House, if they were to have any influence in this matter, to frame some resolution that would receive the unanimous support of the House. Mr Dowwib Stewart said this question was one in which the people of Dunedin took a deep interest. He considered Sir G. Grey entitled to the thanks of the Colony for the trouble he had taken in the matter. He thought the attitude taken by Government in the matter was not the proper one, and that under no pretext whatever should New Zealand concede the slightest right to France to obtain possession of the New Hebrides. Major Atkinson hoped the debate would not degenerate into a personal matter or a party conflict. The question for them to consider was how a unanimous decision could be arrived at. He thought the whole difficulty arose from their refusal to join the Federal Council of Australia. If they had been federated, the question would never have arisen. He contended there must be some united power in these seas. As to the desire of the Colonies in a question of this nature, he confessed he almost despaired of moving the British Government in the matter, and they certainly could not do so unless the Colonies were united. He thought they wanted more information before they dealt with the resolutions; but he wished to say he could never be a party to bartering away the New Hebrides for any other islands in these seas. Looking at the matter, however, as settled for a short time, how could they deal with the question in a proper manner without sufficient infor--mation. He would like to see some plan adopted whereby the House could resolve itself into a secret session, whereby they could receive confidential communications. He would like to sea Sir George Grey withdraw his resolutions temporarily. He should vote against them with regret, because they embodied very much his own views, but he thought they should pass some short resolution till more information was obtained. He, therefore, hoped the resolutions would be temporarily withdrawn. Mr Macandrew differed from Major Atkinson in saying that the reason why the present trouble had arisen was because the Colonies were not federated. He thought Sir George Grey’s resolutions set forward very clearly the position New Zealand should take with regard to the New Hebrides. If France was allowed to take possession of these Islands, it would be a heavy blow to the future progress of those countries. He hoped Sir G. Grey would see the advisability of accepting Mr Stout’s

amendment as the beat way of disposing of the question. Mr Montgomery said it was evident that under any circumstances we should not consent to France obtaining possession of the New Hebrides. He thought Major Atkinson’s proposal to pass a short resolution, so that confidential information which was not at present available could he obtained, a good one. He could not vote against the resolution, but he questioned whether they might not pass a short resolution embodying Sir G. Grey’s views, and then form a Committee to enquire into the whole matter. Mr Beetham suggested that Sir G‘. Grey’s resolutions should also be referred to a Select Committee. The Hon E. Stout said he would accept that suggestion. The debate was here interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. EVENING SITTING, The House resumed at 7.30 Mr Hobbs regretted that there had been any party feeling introduced into the matter, or that any remarks of an unfriendly character should have been made respecting France. He wished to enter his protest against any giving way on the part of Government with respect to the annexation of the New Hebrides. Mr Fisher thought that however Sir G. Grey might be blamed for bringing this matter forward, he was entitled to great credit for the action he had taken in it. He contended that Germany had no concern whatever in the matter, notwithstanding the Premier’s statement that Germany would allow France to annex the New Hebrides. He would prefer that any address on the subject - should take the form of a loyal address to her Majesty the Queen, and no one was better fitted for that duty than the member for Auckland City East. Still, he felt so strongly on the question that, if Sir George Grey went to a vote on his resolutions, he should support them. Referring to the remarks made about Earl Granville, he pointed out that Earl Granville had not been the most successful Secretary the Colonies had had. After considerable discussion as to the course to he adopted, Mr Dargaville moved the adjournment of the debate, which was lost on the voices. Eventually Sir George Grey withdrew his resolutions, and Mr Stout withdrew his amendment on the understanding that the latter would move to-morrow for a Committee to consider the whole question of the relations of New Zealand to the islands of the Pacific.

Sir J. Yogel moved the second reading of the " Lost Debentures Bill,” and briefly explained its provisions. Agreed to. The House rose at 8.20 p.m.