Provincial Council.

Lyttelton Times, Volume XII, Issue 736, 26 November 1859, Page 4

Provincial Council.

••:... Tuesday, Nov. 23. ■ The Speaker took the chair at-5 p.m< r' t; . ; : Present, Messrs. Alporfc, Bishop, Cass, Cooksoii,, Davis, Dobbs, Fooks, Fyfe, Lockhart, Olliviei, • Packer, Potts, Rhodes, Templer, and.White. . Prayers wqre read by the chaplain,, and the' mmutea of the last meeting read and confirmed. ; Mr. Otnvi^E laid on the table reports from the inspectors of sheep—Southern District, from November; 1858; to September, 1859; Northern; District, frord Deceraberj 1858, to September, 1859. : A 150,.; copies ,of .rthe, correspondence between the : Attorney-Genera^ and the Resident Magistrate1 on the applicability to this colony of the English 'Tippling, 5 Act. ;■ ; ;"... ■.*■. ■■/' , 1 CONSTITUTION OF THE NEW EXECUTIVE. > Mr. Oliiviee rpse to acquaint the Council with the arrangements which had been made by the Government since their last meeting-, on which oc- ; casion he had stated that hisHdnor had given to him i the charge of forming an Executive Government, m order to carry on tfie business during the remainderof the session; i^. doing which he had been anxious to form a Government in a manner satisfactory to the Council. He had himself; chiefly on account of private concerns; declined to undertake * again the office of Provincial Secretary, and had rfecoramended his Honor-to seek the: services, in ;thu capacity, of. Mr. Eoss, a genfcleman who, ho' telt sure would have satisfactorily conducted the duties of the office.- But' he (Mr. Ross) had been prevented on much the, same.ground, as had influenced himself (Mr. 0.) from a6ceding to his Honors request. Private affairs-would not allow mm to devote tho necessary time' to his official duties^ He would now inform the Council that the M-eoutive consistod of himself < (Mr* Ollivier) as : acting Secretary, without salaiy, arid l^resident, Mr. Ross, the Chief Surveyor,; My. Cass, and Mr. Duncan, who had again accepted the office'of Pro^ vincial- Solicitor and Crown Prosecutor. It was the present intention of the Government that the othce of Provincial Secretary should, for a time at

least remain vacant They a.sked the indulgence of the Council to carry, on the affairs of tho Governraerit till the close of the 'session. Tho office" work in tho Provincial Secretary's department would be performed for tho present by the newly, appointed chief-clerk, Mr. Maude, a gentleman who had already shown his capacity for the undcrtakiriif and one on whom the council niight rely for tho proper conduct of tho duties. Ho (Mr. 0.) did not consider ifc desirable that the duties* of this office should be undertaken by .any one carrying on business of a mercantile nature. In accordance with tho usual course, Mr. Duncan, in accepting tho office of Provincial Solicitor, had sent to hi?i Honor his resignation of his seat in the Council • and it was^not his (Mr. D.'s) intention, nnl'ess specially requested, to offer himself for re-election Tho Provincial Treasurer, Mr. Bowcn, had formerly •been a member of the Executive Government, and it was not in consequence of any disagreement between him (Mr. B.) and the Government that ho did not now again resume his seat in the Executive Council. It was pretty generally known that Mr, Bowen would shortly be leaving the province for England, and so had preferred leaving his seat open to be filled by some other person to be chosen by his Honor. He (Mr. 0.) would here state that he entirely dissented from the principle laid down that heads of departments should all be responsible officers.. He would notice especially the Provincial Treasurer, who was under very heavy bonds, to the amount he believed of £10,000. Now, ifc was obviously inconvenient that this should be a political ;office, subject to daily changes, and each new holder 'being obliged to find sufficient security. No benefit could arise from such a state of things. He (Mr. ■Q.) would continue to conduct the duties of Provincial Secretary until the termination of the session, immediately after which the appointment would f probably be filled up. There was one other point to | which he would, allude,. namely,' the resolutions affirming: the principle that all the members of the ■Government should be responsible officers. Now he (Mr. 0.) had been long of opinion that this was impossible. The time had now come for the Council to consider how far it was desirable to retain such resolutions, offering as they do great hindrance to public business. The subject was not a new one; it had been more than once alluded to by himself ;(Mr. 0.) He would warn the Council that if they ; wished, to avoid the inconvenience arising from Iresignations, they must return to the old system in vogue before the passing of the Executive Council Ordinance, and have permanent officers, not necessarily members of Council, who shall hold office during good behaviour, and be removeable only by wan-ant under the hand of the Superintendent by &nd with the advice of his Executive. These were only suggestions. At some future date it might be his duty to present resolutions to this effect. There was an increasing" difficulty to find gentlemen who would quit their private business and assume office oh such a tenure, being re- : movable from day to day by a vote of want of ! confidence. It was difficult to define precisely what • constitutes such a vote. For himself he had felt (the late votes of the Council to be such. It was 'the intention of the Government at once to lay before the house a revised scale of estimates for the : current yeai-.They were now in the printer's hands, : and he (Mr. 0.) hoped to be able to present them on Thursday evening, when he would proceed to move the house into Committee of Supply. Touching the overdraft oh the Bank^ hon. members would probably expect to hear what coursehadheen adopted \>j the Government; They had very little, apprehension on this score. They considered themselves bound to furnish all such reasonable security as might -be asked for by the Union Bank. It was: riot unlikely, that the ;mail now expected might bring instructions to the manager as tithe security-. to be demandedjiandjthe,,amount to which the overdraft might;; be.^:carrieS.' ;V-With-the! terms of such instructions; it would be the duty of the Government to comply. The Superintendent • would be asked to send a message to the Council, embodying the wishes of the Bank. The Government did not think it desirable to introduce a Eoah Bill, unless specially demanded by the Bank, because they had serious doubts as to the probability of its being' assented to by the Governor. They had besides seen the difficulties attending such a measure in other provinces, and they also believed that the overdraft would under ordinary circumstances: be cleared off before such a bill could be assented to and come into force. The Government would on Thursday- evening be prepared to lay the revised estimates on the table aud to proceed with the business of the session. Mr. Packee could not allow the hon. member's

(Mr. O's.) remarks to pass^without a few'words. He was surprised, at the tone evinced in those remarks. When1 the principle of Eesponsible Government was first' introduced it was considered a boon. The Superintendent at that time, Mr. PitzGerald, had then expressed his intention of calling the best men to assist him with their counsel and advice. Hence he (Mr. FitzGerald) had been called King Log. But now the Superintendent was to be King Stork. The Council was asked to knock over at once the entire system of Eesponsible Government I And why ? Because those who would now throw it pver couldn't get on with it. He (Mr; P.) maintained that the cause of failure rested, riot with"the system, but with the mem He hoped such a proposition would not be tolerated by the Council. .

■, Mr. Olliviee must really protest against the way in which his remarks had been misrepresented by the;hon. member. He had not said that tlie Government proposed at once to do away with the system of responsible government. He had said that the view he had presented accorded with his own private opinion, and that the time was coming when he would have certain resolutions to submit to the Council. The present system was not like that first inaugurated under Mr. FitzGerald. Did the hon. member recollect when Mr. Gouland held

'office of Provincial Secretary? Was he a responsible officer or a member of Council ? There ; was nothing in the Executive Council Ordinance ■ compelling heads of departments to.be members of Council. There had been some such recommendation in one of Mr. FitzGrerald's speeches. All that he had, said was that inconveniences will constantly recur under the existing system. He considered that position to be a much more manly one for the Superintendent to occupy in which'he should bear the full responsibility of government, and be himself alone amenable to the people. He (Mr. 0.) was only holding office for the convenience of the Council. He might have again taken the course of ■resigning/his seat and appealing to his constituents for re-election: but ho thought ifc better that the delajr should be avoided. That was his present position. The Executive Council Ordinance does

not lay down any rule compelling all heads of departments to be responsible officers. ' .' Mr.'Fyfe thought our position 'differed from that of the old country, inasmuch, as tho head of the Government, the Superintendent, is always responsible to the people.* .After notices of motion, the House, at 6 p.m,, adjourned to Thursday evening, 24th instant, at the usual hour.