HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume I, Issue 7, 15 August 1861, Page 6 (Supplement)

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

■Wednesday, July 17. The House met at five o’clock. Mr. Ceosbie Ward took the oath and his seat for the Town of Lyttelton. Mr. Ormond presented a petition from Robert Donaldson, a Native instructor of the Province of Hawke’s Ray. Petition received. LAND REVENUE APPROPRIATION ACT, 1858, AMENDMENT ACT. Dr. Featherston, on moving for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal clauses 5 and 6 of the Land Revenue Appropriation Act, 1858, said the Act of which he sought to repeal part was passed in 1853, when, excepting the Speaker, all the We’iington members were absent. By it the General Government was authorised to retain one sL th of the land revenue of all the Provences of lb’s island. The northern members had always considered that as a violation of the compact between the Northern and Southern Islands, entered into in 1856, under which it was that not merely the entire administration of the waste lands, but also the whole of the land revenue should be handed to the Provinces. Last session he had introduced a BiU to repeal those clauses authorizing the Government to retain one sixth. That Bi’l was twice introduced and carried by large majorities, but was rejected by the Legislative Council. At the close of the s. sion an understanding was come to that if he succeeded in getting it passed nest session, so far as the then Government was concerned, no further opposition would be offered on their part. The present was precisely the same Bill, and if carried he should introduce another to hand over the one sixth to the Provinces. Mr. Richmond protested against the account of the Land Revenue Appropriation Act, 1858, and its purposes, given by the hon. Colonial Secretary. He (Mr, R.) knew nothing of such a compact botween the two islands, as the hon. member had mentioned. He protested against the mode of representing the resolutions and determination of this House, and while he would be behind no member of the House in maintaining faith on financial matters, yet he protested against that very false view of the action of this House, and the position which members occupied in it as representatives of New Zealand, which was implied in the remarks of the hon. member for the City of Wellington. There were some observations of the hon. member, which, from the low tone he spoke in, he (Mr. B.) did not catch, but he thought the hon. member was speaking of some understanding come to last session, to which he (Mr. R.) did not assent. With regard to the Bill before the House, he would merely at present remind them that in the long discussion of last session they had the able assistance of Mr. Sewell, part of whose policy the compact of 1858 was. And the House world bear in mind how distinctly that hon. member affirmed his full conviction that in 1856 he understood the arrangement to be a compact, and that otherwise he would have been no party to it. Mr. Dillon Bell agreed with the hon. member for the City of Wellington tlat the financial arrangements of 1856 were in the nature of a compact between the two islands for the adjustment of the Company’s Debt. The half m'” 'on loan was a matter of so much difficulty, as effecting the interests the two islands separately, that when passed into law, they were bound to consider it as au arrangement binding on a 1! parties then representing the two islands. He had voted with the hon. mover last session, and sho 'ld do so again. He did not deny the right of the House to alter those arrangements, for of course it possessed supreme legislative power, but ho submitted that if any financial arangements made by this House, right s were created as between the 3‘fferent portions of the Colony, in their relations to the Colony, it ought to be serious reasons indeed that should induce a _uturc House of Representatives to alter them without the free assent of a'l. Mr. Staefoed said that as he had been able to hear the remarks of the hon. mover, (which was not very well), he understood him to refer to two circumstances, on one of which his own impression was in accord, to the other he dissented. That in which he agreed was when the lion, member referred to an understanding, or rather an intimation, given by a member of the Ministry Lst session, that if after a general election it should be the opinion of a majority of tbe representatives of the colony that the Act shod d be repealed, then (the late Ministry) would uot oppose it. He (Mr. b.) believed that was made by himself spontaneously, andperhaps his hon. friend, (Mr. Richmond), might not have been conversant. At the same

time lie thought the hon. Colonial Secretary was hardly warranted in stating that the members of the Northern Island had always considered the Act, as it now stood, as an infringement of the compact of 1856, for that very Act was passed unanimously by a House containing a large majority of the members of the Northern Island, only one member having expressed a doubt concerning it. Two hon. gentlemen then present, held seats in the present Ministry ; at least, he believed so, for the hon. member for Rangitiki had twice mentioned five as being the number of Ministers having seats in this House, whereas he had six, and he (Mr. S.) did not know who the unlucky member wrs that was omitted. But the portion of fie Act sought to be repealed, was not fairly described as a breach of contract. The resolutions of 1856, left to the House the power of determining, at any future time, that particular portions of the land revenue of any Province might be allocated for the benefit of that province, and that province alone. The spirit of them was that the land revenue collected in any Province should not be taken outside of it, and he trusted the House would always adhere to that principle ; but they intimated that there might be stipulations attached to the manner in which the revenue was made available within the Province itself. That was what the Land Revenue Appropriation Act had done with reference to the Provinces of the Northern Island, and whether done wisely or not, it was not a breach of the resolution of 1856. Except in this particular, that the operation of these clauses was not limited to the proceeds of land bought under the loan. If it had been so limited, the Act would have been a perfectly fair and legitimate one ; but, unfortunately it was made to seize the whole of the proceeds of sales of land, considerable portions of which were obtained outside of the loan, and were Crown property before the loan was heard of. As far as those lands went there was just cause for complaint against the Act. He had held this opinion for some time, and had expressed it before. He was perfectly ready to abide by the decision of the country, and thought he might have his own opinions as to the wisdom of the step, they would not prevent him assenting cordially to the decision of the House.

Mr. Cuoseie Ward said the arrangement of 1856 was something more than an agreement. He knew no name less strong than a compact by winch to designate it. It was something much stronger than a mere agreement of the members who happened to be in at that time. In questions between two Provinces it had been the custom for the members of those Provinces to lay their heads together and come to a general resolution, by wliich they bound the whole Provinces which they represented. It was submitted on all sides of the House that the different Provinces and the different Islands had separate interests, and in order not to interfere with the interests of any, it was necessary that the rights of each should be settled and ascertained by agreement amongst them all. In a full House in iSS6, when the subject of the finances of the colony was fully before the House, the members of each Province agreed there and then to an outhne, or rather a full sketch, of the financial policy which did in their opinion full justice to the interest of all the Provinces of both Islands. When the House of Representatives endorsed that agreement, it accepted certain conditions of the whole of the Provinces towards one another. A compact was entered into between the Provinces of the Colony,—a compact to this extent that whereas an ordinary agreement nught be altered by a further resolution of the House, this was one which, in the absence of the representatives of any one Province, —it was improper for the rest of the House to deal with. As well might the Middle Island, in the absence of the Nelson members, agree to take further liabilities on it, as the House in the absence of the Wellington members agree to this Act affecting the revenues of that Province. The hon. member who had last spoken, had said that one part of the resolution of 1856 was, that the land fund should be subject to Provincial appropriation ; but it was not Provincial appropriation for this House to take part of the funds, and appropriate it. In the absence of the Wellington members the monies of Wellington had been dealt with, and although the rest of the members agreed to the passing of this Act, it was a fair request on the part of the Province unpreresented to say, “Our interests were considered in that compact, hut in this alteration our .interests were not considered ; we, therefore, claim to he put back on the basis of the resolutions of 1856.” He was glad to hear that the hon. member for New Plymouth would not object to its being passed, for otherwise it would have been not fulfilling the understanding given at the close of last session. Mr. Richmond rose to explain that he had given no pledge not to oppose the bill; the hon. member was mistaken. Mr. Fitzherbert made a few remarks not distinctly heard. The bill was then brought up, and read a first time, ordered to be printed, and to be read a second time on Wednesday next. THE MILITARY DEFENCE COMMITTEE. Dr. Feathep.ston moved that the hon. Mr. Fox’s name be added to the Committee on Military Defence.—Motion agreed to. Mr. Stafford moved, that the name of Mr. J. 0. Richmond be added to the Committee on Military Defence.—Motion agreed to. DEBTORS’ AND CHEDITOKS’ COMPOSITION BILL. Mr. Brandon, in moving for leave to bring in a Bill.to facilitate compositions between Debtors and their Creditors, ■ said this was the same hi 11 , that was before the House last session. The principle of it was that when a debtor found it imposiblc to fulfil his engagements, he might petition the Supreme Court for an order for protection, having obtained wliich, a meeting of his creditors should be called to whom he should submit the mode in which he proposed to make his arrangments and wind up his affairs. The arrangement ifould then made a proceeding in the Supreme Court, and winding up of the estate bo conducted, as it \fcre under the supervision of the judge ; after which a certificate vrould be given by the judge releasing the debtor from his engagements. Mr. Fox said this was the Bill to wliich he alluded yesiciday, as a suboiiijutio ior the Bankruptcy Bill. He was not at that time aware that his hon. friend had given notice of the measure on his own account.

Bill brought in, read a first time, ordered to bo printed, and to be read a second time on Tuesday next.

Mr. Jolxje moved that the Return laid on tie table of the House of all Crown Grants issued, Ip in course of preparation, to Native subjects of hX Majesty, be printed.—Agreed to. ' \ NEW ZEALAND SANK SIZE 1 Mr. Firth moved the adoption of the Report! —Seconded by Mr. Russell and agreed to. \ The Chairman of Committee certified that the! Bill had gone through the usual forms—Bill read\ a third tune, passed, and ordered to be sent to the ' Legislative Council, praying concurrence therein. BANK OF NEW SOUTH WALES BILL. Mr. Brandon moved the adoption of the Report on this Bill.—The Chairman of Committee certifieu. as to forms.—BiU read a third time, passed, and sent to the Legislative Council, praying concurrence therein. r J 6 OTAGO AND SOUTHLAND PUBLIC DEBT BILL. Mr. D. Bell moved that tliis Bill be recommitted in order to amend the report of proceedings in the committee of the whole. Clerical errors had slipped in, which caused the Bill to come in contact with two local ordinances.—Agreed to.--* Bi 1 l re-committed. NATIVE CROWN TITLES BILL. On the motion of Mr. Fox, this bill went through a second reading, and ordered to bo read a third time on Wednesday next. NATURALIZATION BILL. On motion of Mr. Fox, this bill was postponed for the present. Mr. Fox moved that the House resolve itself into a committee of the whole on the Otago and Southland Public Debt Apportionment Bill, the Resident Magistrates Ordinance Amendment Bill, and the Registration of Electors’ Act Amendment Bill. In reference to the last Bill, Mr. Saunders moved an amendment with the view of removing a difficulty which had stood in the way of registration and thereby causing great disfranchisement in the outlying districts. The former bill equired th& name of a person wishing to be placed on the roll to be attested by a Magistrate, and there being no magistrate at hand caused many to allow themselves to be disfranchised, sooner than go, in manv cases five or six miles, to get his name attested' Mr. Saunders thought that any elector on the roll wa& sufficient, inasmuch as there was a penalty of £2O on false returns. J A long conversational discussion toot place in wliich a variety of amendments were submitted. The disposition of the Committee appeared to be to the Bill as liberal as possible, rendering every facility for registration, and at the same tone guarding against opening any door through which the Rolls could be again corrupted. It appeared from the discussion that while the late Bill had caused theRolls to he re% ised, and stripped of a great number of fictitious names, it had gone to the other extreme by causing almost a general disfranchisement of bona fide settlers in many of the outlyingdistricts. Some hon. members thought two freeholders should be sufficient; others that two householders would be better; others that any resident ought to be garantee enough; while others thought that the £2O penalty would prove a sufficient check, as every claimant would have to sign his own name. There appeared to be objections to every one of these proposals, and the Committee, after an hour and a half's conversational debate, were unable to adopt any one of the amendments, yet agreeing that an alteration was higlily necessary. The chairman was ordered to report progress, and ask leave to sit again to-morrow. * Progress was also reported on the Resident Magistrates’ Ordinances Bill, and leave asked tosit again on Tuesday next. The Otago and Southland Public Debt Apportionment Bill Amendments were ordered to bo considered to-morrow. LOST LAND ORDERS BILL. Mr. C. Ward moved the second reading of thisBill.—Agreed to. Bill read a second time, and on motion of Mr. Ward ordered to be committed on Wednesday next. J On motion of Mr. Fox the House adjourned at 20 minutes past 8 o’clock.