Wednesday, August 4.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume 13, Issue 1073, 10 August 1869, Page 3

Wednesday, August 4.

PATARA. Mr. Richmond moved for copies of all correspondence between the Civil Commissioners at Taranaki and Tauranga, and any other Officers and the Government, respecting the return of Patara to Taranaki. The hon. gentleman detailed the circumstances connected with the surrender of Patara, and said he thought it very improbable that Mr. Parris reposed confidence in that native, although he might make use of him. Col. Haultain said Mr. Grace had informed him that there was no reason whatever to suspect Patara of any complicity in the murder of Mr. Volkner. MivCracroft Wilson, said if any Englishman had acted as Patara had done iv relation to the murder of Mr. Volkner, he would not have escaped trial. The Hon. the PEKM.ua said there was no doubt that Patara was „ue of the party of Taranaki natives who ii.id worked up the Opotiki natives to that siuto of fanaticism which had induced the murder of Mr. Volknor during Patara's temporary absence. It was ■ a most unfortunate and indecorous thing if an officer of the Government had taken Patara into his confidence. Mr. Stafford said, whether a man had been a Hauhau fanatic, or whether he had actually taken part in the murder of Mr. Volkner, were two different questions. If Patara had merely been the former, it would be very hard if he was to be for ever outlawed for his fault. The motion was carried. IMPERIAL TROOPS. The House again went into committee to consider the Defence Minister's resolutions on the subject of Imperial troops, with Mr. Stafford's amendment thereto. Mr. I^err agreed that we had plenty of men and material in the colony without looking outside for assistance. It was no use disguising from themselves that selfreliance was thrust upon them whether they would or not. The Home Government would afford sympathy, but neither men nor money ; and even if troops were sent it would only be on the condition that they should be employed in garrison duty. No doubt we had great difficulties to contend with ; but if we face them manfully we should overcome them. The necessary funds for our defence might be raised in the ways — either by consolidating the territorial and Customs revenues, or, which he thought preferable, by means of an income tax. Either of these methods would be preferable to raising loans. But, after all, it was only a matter of police, and the cost should be borne by the persons protected. He did not approve of the employment of either friendly natives or Ghooi'kas, and proposed to plant villages like the Auckland pensioner settlements all over the North Island. Several hon. members, himself among the number, voted against the late Government because they were taking a leap in the dark ; but had the policy of the present Government been before the House at that time, he should have voted otherwise. Mr. Ormond said the proposals of the -Government and those of the hon. member for Timaru were identrcal in principle and" only differed in the mode in which the application should be made to the Imperial Government. As both parties were agreed to asking for troops the resolutions of the Government should be amended so as to meet with the approval of a majority of the House ; and when the proper time arrived, he should move such amendments to those resolutions as would make them acceptable to both the Government and the House. In doing so, he was acting in accordance with the views of a considerable number of members. The only difference that would be found between his own proposals and those of the Government was that the former would not admit the inability of the colony to provide for its own defence. He hoped they would be accepted by the Government, and he could promise them a majority. The hon. member for Timarti's speech showed that if he again went into office he. would resume his old policy, and if he applied for troops he would do so in such a manner as would prevent the application >eing acceded to ; and it was the duty both of hon. members who only differed from the Government as to the mode in which troops should be applied for and of the Government to endeavor to reconcile that difference. He would ask the Government it they ought not to reconsider the position which they had taken up in relation to the amount which would be required for the defence of the country during the present year. (Ironical cheers.) It must be remembered that a state of things existed which the Government had no reason to calculate on when they made this proposal. Hon. members should negative the amendment of the hon. member for Timaru to the first resolution, and when the second resolution was put, vote for his own amende ment. The hon. gentleman concluded by reading his proposed amendment^ and sat down amidst loud cheers nnd counter cheers. The amendment runs thus: "That all the worda after 'That 1 in the first six resolutions be omitted in order to insert the following : " having regard to the very threatening aspect of Native affairs, the maintenance of a highly disciplined and well organised force has become a matter of imperative necessity. That the presence in the North Island of a small body of Imperial troops would greatly assist the colony in its eflorts to form and discipline such a force, and by their presence tend to check the spread of disaffection amongst the native race. That, in conformity with the above, this House will sanction the sending home of Commissioners to treat with the Imperial Government to secure' the services of a force not exceeding 1000 men for a period not exceeding five years and engage to make provision for defraying their cost upon such terms as may be agreed to by the Commissioners on behalf of the colony.' " Tareha approved of Commissioners being sent to England for troops, and objected to the operations of the Native Lands Court; because as soon as the natives obtained Crown grants they were pestered by Europeans desirous of buying their lands which ultimately passed into the hands of the latter. Mr. Ludlam said the amendment of the hon. member for Clive was much the same as that of the hon. member for Timaru, save that it did not provide for sending Commissioners to England. The Government appeared to have abandoned the policy with which they had set out; and

where the House would be landed it was impossible to say. The presence of a British regiment was necessary j and ifc was also requisite that an efficient colonial force should be raised in order to put down the war. It was not any certain number, but the presence of. a body of British troops, that was necessary, and he should therefore support the amendment of the hon. member for Timaru. It was unnecessary to send commissioners home to obtain- one regiment; a simple letter from, the Governor, backed by his responsible advisers, would be sufficient. It appeared to him that the last resolution had been tacked on to the others merely to serve a, purpose and then to be dropped. It was impossible in time of war to calculate in advance what expenditure would be necessary ; and the hint given by a member vir-. tually connected with the Government as to the proposed expenditure being insufficient, was a certain indication that the proposals of the Government, however pleasing they might sound, were really a delusion. It was, he believed, contemplated to further amend the resolutions so as to allow of the troop 3 being used for other purposes than garrison duty; but Great Britain would never place the troops under the orders of the colony, and if the troops w.efee again used in the field, we should be again subjected to all the evils'of divided authority. It would be a good plan, to try and get one of her Majesty's regiments, about to be disbanded, stationed at Taupo, with a view to permanent settlement and roadmaking. A defensive policy would be a cruel and expensive policy, and until Te Kooli and Titokowaru were rooted out of the country we should never have peace. He should vote for Mr. Stafford's amendment. Mete Kingi commented upon the present state of native affairs, and said the Maoris were not very clear on the subject of the troops. The Government and Assembly must explain what they intended to do with reference to the Maoris. This island would never rest ; and the Hauhaus would never give themselves up, being afraid to do so. Colonel Haultain said the hon. Premier had spoken in a very unjustifiable manner of the colonial troops, whom he haddescribed as a bastard, draggle-tailed soldiery in a miserable disorganised state. As the House, in reply to his Excellency's speech, had thanked the colonial forces for their services, the Premier's remark were both improper and unjustifiable. The hon. gentleman had also made exaggerated statements. He absolutely denied that there was ever any mutiny in the foices at Waikaremoana, or that the force at Patea had been in a state of mutiny since the present Government assumed office. In many other respects the hon. member had exaggerated, and such exaggerations were an insult to the common sense of the House and unbecoming in a member of the Government. Colonel Haultain then referred to som6 remarks made by Mr. Bell in previous debate, denied that he had left the Defence Office in a state of disorganisation, and endeavored to justify Mr. Haugbton's temporary appointment as Under-Stfcrotarjr _. for defence. __JVIr~ -Jlqllie said the surprise which the House might HFe~eT at "rare attiraaeassumea — by England towards the colony would soon disappear when they reflected upon the vast change of opinion which had taken place at home as to the relations which should subsist between the mother country and its colonies. The hon. gentleman quoted largely from parliamentary papers to show bow the opinion that colonies should provide for theii' internal defence had grown up amongst English statesmen during the last two years. The articles in the 2Ymesj showed that similar opinions prevailed' among the people at home, and the despatches of the Secretary of State were sufficient indication that the House of Com-, mons had made up its mind on the subject. All the documents from which he had quoted tended to show that the declared intentions ; of the Home Government during the last four or five years on the subject of troops were real as final. Nothing less than a dire calamity would obtain the assistance of British troops for the coloDy. He did not exactly understand in what form the resolutions of the Government were to be put before the House, but he could not vote for them in any sliape. He should vote for the amendment of the hon. member for Timaru, but with many reservations and much unwillingness, reserving to himself the right of deciding how it would act hereafter when the question of how the troops were to be applied for came to be settled. On the motion of Mr. Reynolds the Chairman then reported progress, and asked leave to sit again. A long discussion ensued on the motion that resumption of the debate be the first order of day for Thursday, in the course of which Mr, Wilson intimated his intention of bringing forward an amendment to the resolutions. The House adjourned at 12*50 a.m.