THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 24.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume 12, Issue 984, 3 October 1868, Page 3

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 24.

! Adjourned Debate. Mr.' Cableton said he had so often spoken on. the native question, that his opinion was tolerably well known to the House. He could not however allow the opportunity to pass "without stating his reasons why he could not give his vote in favor of ousting the Ministers: He could not follow the policy of the hon. member for Napier, nor of the hon. member for Mafcaura, nor of the hon. member for Rangitikei. [The hon. member passed through the history of the native question, citing various acts to support his view.] He believed that the hon. member for Napier was good at management of natives, but his native policy was bad. The hon. member for Mataura's policy had been connected with the most fatal acts a Minister could commit. The policy propounded by the hon. member for ltangitikei was the maddest device that could be suggested. If he got into office that hon. gentleman would at once declare the native title of the Manawatu extinguished, and the meaning of that, would be war. The fault of the present Government consisted in having adopted the policy of their predecessors. The failure of the plan for military settlement brought about the great change for the worse. He would absolve the hon. gentleman (Mr. Stafford) from connection with the seizure of the Waitara. He was on board ship, but that hon. gentleman was always true to his colleagues, and when he felt bound to defend them, he did so manfully. But he could not absolve those Auckland madmen who cried out for the invasion of the Waikato. The Taranaki men must have known all the circumstances of the Waitara. The present Government had a difficulty left to them by their predecessors, and they had obtained considerable success iv bringing about the pacification of the country (hear) until the recent unhappy events for which the Ministers were not responsible (hear, hear.) Major Atkinson : There were some people too good for this world. (Laughter and cheers). When an hon. member assumed, in the presence of others, that he was the only one who would give a disinterested vote, he must be wholly eaten up with egotism. When a person was so wholly wrapt in his own self-conceit, his opinions were very little worth. When the hon. member (Mr. Carleton) said this was indisputable, and that was indisputable, when men equally competent with himself were divided in opinion, he must simply have no settled opinion of anything or anybody but himself. The reason he (Major Atkinson) gave his vote with the opposition was, that after waiting and hoping — until waiting bordered on despair — that the Government would face the difficulty, he had ceased to have any hope. On the contrary, he now felt utter want of confidence in Ministers, more especially in the defence department. When the natives were coming in, and everything was beginning to look prosperous, the Defence Minister said he must have a military commander operating between Patea and Taranaki. When remonstrated with, the only idea that gentleman could grasp was, that he (Major Atkinson) wanted to save £100 to his province. It was evident, after that, war was inevitable. Then came the feeling between Col. M'Donnell and Mr. Parris, the former endeavoring to destroy the influence of the latter ; then the threats of Colonel M'Donnell to deport the natives to the Chathams, and then his desire to have the whole of the district under his orders. Naturally, Mr. Parris said, so long as such proceedings were going on there never could be peace. The affair of Pokaikai was a great sore among the natives. The head chief of the Ngatiruanui, when told he must obey the law, said he supposed the law was such law as he got at Pokaikai. Hon. gentlemen sneered at the " self-reliant" policy ; but, if they knew what that policy really was, the more they were to blame. Mr. Weld told the country it was a policy of self-sacrifice ; that the people would have to bear heavy burdens ; that the men of the North Island should be prepared to give personal service. He said that 500 men must be placed on the estimates. They were placed on the estimates. But when the hon. member succeeded, he put his pen through the estimate, and he cut down the volunteers. That was the action of the Government, not that of the House. Turulurumokai was a surprise on the edge of the enemy's country : the men were found sleeping. He believed that half the men engaged at Te Ngutuotemanu never saw a native at all; that if their muskets could be found it would be discovered thatthehall'of them hadnever been fired. The information to be gleaned from the despatch showed that Col. McDonnell had not complete command of his men. If it were not well known that he was a man of undoubted courage, what he had done would have gained him the imputation of being a coward. He (Major Atkinson) ti-embled when he thought of the intelligence that might at any moment be received from the Front. Three men had not been killed until seven days after the fight. What was to be said of a commander turning round with his eighty men. Colonel McDonnell in his opinion should have been put under arrest. It was little use speaking to Colonel Haultain on those matters, for his one idea was that " the senior officer" could do no wrong. So long as these things continued there could be no peace, and whoever continued them would be responsible for what would follow. He believed the first class militia in the North Island should be put to their training ; he did not think £150,000 would put an end to the crisis. The House had a right to know from the Government what they believed would be sufficient. He thought they should enlist a force of 500 men for three or five years if necessary. Why was it there had not been a man trained. The neglect of training had left the- country altogether unprepared.; He had told the House and the Government of these things before, but fIQ heed was taken by the hon. gentle*

men. Hon. gentlemen sneered at ''alarm resolutions," but every man in the Nort)i ! had a right to know at such a time'j wjiai was the state of the country. (Cheers'.) TitokuwharoVpa must be taken #t Whatever cost, and if not taken there would be* warm Waikato within a very short period! There were plenty .of trained men-^-the"re-turns would show it — to have sent; .and' the raising raw levies was inexcusable. Mete Kingi said a few nights ago, "I have listened to the talk here for two months ; the talk is all about money, men's lives are nothing." But the Government said " see how cheap we did it." They were afraid to pay the cost of the self-reliant policy, but they would like the credit.' They were afraid to incur the odium of calling out the militia of the North Island. Nothing that the Government asked for defence had been refused to them except an inspector, and two .musketry instructors. Every thing else they asked for they got ; and they might rest " assured that to the Government the country would look as the persons responsible for its disasters. (Cheers.) • Mr. K. S. Harbison regretted the tone the discussion had assumed. He paid a high compliment to the qualities of the Native Contingent. He would support the motion, but he thought the recrimination he had heard used was most inopportune at such a serious juncture. Mr. Wilson, C.8., said that' it was, useless to cast the blame on Ministers, which was due rather to the economy insisted upon by the House, who had cut down every estimate for defence tjo the lowest possible, point. The result of the Ministerial policy was to be seen in the most solemn declarations of peace by the natives, including Titokuwharo himself. He defended the conduct of the Pokaikai Commissioners. They had no power to inquir-e'iuto any act except that into which, they had been appointed to inquire; The hou. member read extracts from letters and other documents and from the report of the Pokaikai Commission in support of his views — (1.) That the prestige of Col.' M'Donnell had a beneficial influence. (2). That the attack on Pokaikai had conduced to the peace of the district. (3.) That the Commissioners had done their duty. He denied that there had been any undue delay in the completion of the report, or that there had been any partiality. The general opinion expressed in letters and by witnesses was that the affair of Pokaikai was necessary. (Amongst these letters was one from the late Capt. Buck, already published). He (Mr. Wilson) believed Colonel M'Donnell had fallen into an ambuscade. In such a case the only safetywas to "go on.' He (Mr. Wilson) knew what an ambuscade was, and had sympathy with any man who fell into such a difficulty. As to " raw levies," there was a very crack regiment at the battle of ChilhanwaHah — the 14th Dragoons, who made a retreat before a not very superior force, rode over their own guns, and were onjy stopped by the clergyman pistol, in hand. The " raw levies " had not done much worse than that. He thought that a word might be said for the "raw levies," and he was not the man to cast imputations upon the. courage of men who were unexpectedly placed in a most difficult position. (Cheers). He begged to move as an amendment " That the condition of the Northern Island requires that an efficient force of constabulary, organized upon the Irish model, should be embodied for a definite period." (Cheers). Major Heaph? reviewed the conduct of the Ministers with respect to the custody of the Chatham Islands prisoners. Commissioners had been appointed, who recommended certain precautionarj 1 measures for the safe keeping of those men, but nothing was done. The Defence Minister was ill at Tauranga ; what was the Native Minister doing? He was somewhere on the Otago Goldfields, collecting stones to throw at provincial glass windows. As a member for a portiou of the Province of Auckland; he did view with alarm the conduct of Ministers, for though war had not broken out yet, as had been stated, there was no knowing what might take place. The wives and families of settlers who had gone to the "diggings" were residing in the Waikato. The Civil Commissioner (Mr. Macluiy) had tendered his resignation. The agent of the General Government had been withdrawn from •Auckland. The Hon. Mr. Stafford: That is not so ; Mr. VVhitaker is Government agent. Major Heapht : The very fact of his being called on to act, proved the existence of an emergency. Mr. Mackay had stated that the temporary placing of 100 men at Ngaruawahia would have an excellent moral effect. There was no doubt some difficulty in doing that, but there were plenty of grounds for believing that the Government were not at one with their agents, and therefore he had not confidence in the safety of the Waikato, and therefore no confidence in Ministers. (Hear and cheers.) There was formerly a well-known policy called the "flour and sugar" policy. That had been changed. He would read the items of an Auckland draper's bill endorsed by the Government. It was dated May last. '• Mr. Hori Taiwa, white kid gloves, dress skirt ; Mr. Ahipana, silk skirt, ' chemises' ; lloni, kid gloves, silk skirt, chemises (liiughter) ; Horomona, silk skirts, scents." The prices were too long to read. Here then was the " kid glove, petticoat, and chemise policy." (Loud laughter and cheers.) The hon. member for Coleridge quoted the lines of Marmion, and said the hou. member for Hangitikei shouted " victory" when he left office. The present Government had given to the House several "jeremiads." The hon. member might have quoted from Marmion a few lines lower down, the language of the " Monk" : — By many a bedsidn I have been, And mnii.v a Miner's parting seen; J}us never aifrht like this. (Cheers and laughter.) Mr. JoiiLiE said the conduct of Mr. Booth had been most prudent and discreet. He denied that the rights of-Hen-derson and Luxford were in the least diminished bj' their being what was called derivative purchasers. [The hon. member read copious extracts from the parliamentary papers laid on the table relating to the events at Patea.] It was possible that the Government had not been sufficiently awake to the magnitude of the emergency, but he believed that, whatever Ministers occupied those benches, distinguished by whatever ability, or however vigilant, they would sooner or later have to deal with similar transactions, the more complicated and difficult the longer they were delayed. (Cheers). In the case o^Col. M'Donnell, he had a particular claim, upon the House for indulgence and considerate forbearance. Was it to be thought that . savage Maoris who had learned a lesson from two . marches, of English troops through their district, had notleavut a lesson which would* prompt" them to another struggle. • It was the old and natural position of race against race. It was no use. Policy after policy had been resorted to, but the policy now was a policy of action. (Cheers.) , - The House adjourned at 20 minutes, to 1. ..- .