LATEST PARLIAMENTARY.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume 12, Issue 978, 15 September 1868, Page 3

LATEST PARLIAMENTARY.

Wednesday, September 9,

(From the Wellington " Independent," Sept. 10.) Want of Confidence in Ministers.

Mr. Fox rose to move as an amendment to the resolutions appended to the financial statement, That this House has no confidence* in the policy of the Government. Mr. Fox then said — -Mr. Carlton : I shall not long detain the House on this occasion. What I have to say has been the result of much deliberation, and I shall; therefore* be able; I hope; to compress it into a brief spaed. Besides which, the occasion is one of great gravity; I consider that the issue at stake is, whether a system, I cannot call it & policy, shall continue, which even those who vote with the Government disapprove— a system under which the colony is staggering and floundering to Some vague and unknown destiny — or whether we shall have some settled principle on which to take our stand, and some settled aim towards which we may direct our course for the future. It is my duty now to state what my principles are and to contrast them with the proposals (I cannot call them principles) of the Government. The first reason I have tabled for my motion of want of confidence relates to the dissolution of financial partnership between the General and Provincial Governments. I concur in that proposal — 1. Because the only prospectof reducing taxation.

2. Because it prevents complication of accounts and endless disputes. > 3,- Because the provinces will know what their means really are.

4. Because it will prevent falsification of accounts by the General Government and the constant squabbles arising thereout.

But it should not be carried out on any principle which should tend to destroy the feeling of individual responsibility on the part of the provinces, or create a desire on the part of those which have borrowed little to go on borrowing wildly merely to be on a footing of equality with the others.

The Government scheme has in it no element of fairness. It is a mere haphazard solution — based on no principle. It makes those provinces which have borrowed little, pay for the public works of those which have borrowed much — and as a corrollary of this it will certainly lead to demand on the part of the former to share in the land fund of the latter. In lieu of this I propose a capitation tax of 30s. per head to be paid to every province, till it shall amount to £400,000, when it should be reduced to such a ratio as would bring it down to that amount. The application of it should be fixed to the interest and sinking fund of each province, and such objects of government as it is the interest of the colony at large to see carried out, and in respect of which every province owes allegiance to the whole colony— such as harbours, gaols, police ; any balance to be at the disposal of the provinces. The amount at present on that ratio would be about £327,966. Mr. Fitzherbert estimated for the last year £337,827 ; but they actually received £292,506. Mr. Hall estimates for next £309,296. Therefore, my proposal is about £10,000 worse for them than ' Mr. Fitzherbert's estimate ; £35,960 better than their actual receipts this year ; and £18,670 better than Mr. Hall's estimate this year. lam aware that this is nob so complete a severance of partnership as some members might desire ; but for most practical purposes it is complete. It puts an end to all uncertainty and conflict of accounts. To a great extent, and at least so long as it is respected, it puts an end to log-rollingv But* on the other hand, it does not draw so hard and sharp a line as the Government scheme ; and practically it is far more favourable to the Provincial Governments. I would subject them to no sudden revolution. I show them exactly what they are to have. I offer them inducements to increase their population. All that the Government can do to aid them in the way of advice, counsel, and assistance they shall have. And looking at the question in that spirit, I do not go the length which has been ascribed to me of considering that this House has no right to know what is going on in the provinces, and if necessary in extreme cases, to interfere. Whether our destinies might not have been worked out more satisfactorily if the Constitution Act had been different in respect to over-riding powers, is a question ; but in the relative position of the General and Provincial Governments which now exists, I have no hope that we should be able to repeal our Constitution in that respect. "What we want now is to bring the two Governments into harmonious action. I should not consider it an advantage to be able to convict the Provincial Governments of mismanagement, or to find occasion to disallow their ordinances. On the contrary, I should esteem it a privilege to avert mismanagement, and render disallowances of provincial laws unnecessary. The Stafford Government would do all it could to get the provinces into scrapes — I would do all I could to keep it out of them.

In order to provide the machinery for promoting harmony between the Governments, I would, in the place of the Defence Minister appoint a Secretary for the provinces. His duty it should be to know everything that went on in the provinces, to act as a medium of communication between the mind of the General Government and that of every province, and also between the minds of the provinces, each with the others ; so as to secure, as far as possible, uniformity of action, unity of purpose, and harmony of temper, instead of that conflict and uncertainty in action, and that feeling of intense bitterness which now exists, and which, if it existed between any two independent states, could only, and would quickly lead to war. I hold that the General Government will have a right to insist upon the capitation tax being properly expended, so as to secure the main objects of national utility in respect of which it is granted. Among these I may specially mention harbors, which I would not place, under the General Government, because in connection with them there have been undertaken, and will and ought to be undertaken, many great provincial works ; Ifut inasmuch as the use of those harbors, their safety and freedom ai'e objects of national interest, I would subject the provincial action in respect of them to a certain amount of supervision on tho part of a competent department of the General Government.

Reduction of Taxation,

I much regret the manner in which this subject has been disposed of by the Government. Not only has it declined to attempt any reduction, but the ActingTreasurer has endeavored to reconcile the colony to its present crushing burdens, by arguing that all prosperous countries are heavily taxed, wishing to delude us into the belief that they are prosperous because they are taxed. The fallacy is that which logicians call causa pro non causa, more commonly known as the case, "Tenterden Steeple and Goodwin Sands." The countries he points to are prosperous, not because of taxation. Being prosperous they are taxed — not being taxed they are prosperous. But the industry of the most prosperous country may be paralysed, and the country absolutely ruined by ex-

cessive taxation, and that is what jN T ew Zealand is now suffering from in degree. If the Acting-Treasurer had ever travelled through* any part of the Turkish dominions he would ha"ye witnessed the effect of excessive taxation. The most fertile soil abandoned to sterility — the bounty of nature, in the form of fisheries or of mines, utterly neglected — an entire absence of all reproductive works, a population always on the verge of starvation, because whatever they produce beyond bare necessaries is taken by the tax-ga-therer. These are some, and but some of the results of that excessive taxation to which the hon. member seeks to reconcile us; We are fast hastening to a similar condition. For the first time in our history, the Acting-Treasurer tells us, there is an actual decrease in our revenue — reports of fresh bankruptcies teach us every day* and colonists are afraid to undertake those works of improvement and legitimate speculation by which, under good government, the material progress of the colony would be advancedi What is all this owing to? Undoubtedly t one great cause is the excessive taxation under which we groan. And yet, instead of endeavoring to reduce it, the Treasurer satisfies himself by attempting to reconcile us to the condition we are in by the novel formula that the magnitude of a nations taxation is the measure of its prosperity. I do not say that any great reduction could be effected at present, but some might be } the savings in several directions, claimed by the Government in the annual expenditure might be made available ; and if it were ever so small an attempt to reduce, taxation, it. would be acceptable as an' indication of the sincerity of the Government in ,its desire to reduce. 1 am bound to say that all the inferences I can draw from the speech of the ActingTreasurer, lead me to the conclusion that the present Government does not intend to and will not reduce the taxation of the colony, while I think that any Government of Xew Zealand ought at least to make the attempt which I have no doubt could to some extent, though at pi'esent not to a large extent, be successful.

Native Affairs.

Year by year the colony no ldSs than the parent country, has been led to expect that the extraordinary expenditure oti native affairs was just about to terminate* Year by year it has gone on, and apparently as long as a shilling can be drawn from the Middle Island or any other coffers, it is to go on. Much has been said of the liability of the Middle Island, on the ground of its representatives having supported a war policy ; and it must be admitted that in assuming its share of the £3,000,000 loan it did not shirk the responsibility it had incurred. But the war is now over, though local disturbances' still occur from time to time; and the Middle Island may well hope for some release from its liability on account of what, according to the accepted theory of more than one Government, is now only a matter of police. The Middle Island seeks at present no absolute release ; but it does insist, and I think most justly, insist that some present limit should be put to its pecuniary contribution, and some period of time fi.ved for the duration of its liability in any shape. I must say that I think this is most just and reasonable on the part of the Middle Island. If the Government had adopted some more definite policy during the last three years than that miserable system of drifting which the Native Minister admits has been its policy, or no policy, the native disturbances might before this have been reduced to a mere question of police, in fact as well as in theory \ and I hold that if the occupation of the North Island is to continue — if the colonizing operations of its provinces are to be extended, the native difficulty must be reduced, and that very shortly, to the category of a police emergency. Confident I am that in less than five years, if treated with energy, and through the medium of watchful, earnest, and influential administrators, the whole question will assume an aspect so different from what it now presents, and capable of being so easily treated, that the northern provinces will not shrink from undertaking the sole responsibility and cost of what will then be simply a portion of their ordinary police administration.

What I propose then on this head is to appropriate annually for two years from the consolidated revenue, for defence or native purposes, a sum not exceeding £100,000; and for the following three years, an annual sum not exceeding £75,000. This should be divided among the provinces of the Northern Island (I do not commit myself to proportion), and the administration of native affairs in each province be practically entrusted to the Superintendents of such province, acting by delegation from, and as the agent of the General Government. But in each case it should be distinctly understood that if any province exceeded its quota, it should have no claim for such excess upon the colony. I have been told that there is no security for any finality in this proppsal. Independently of the belief which I have that the present disturbances will not extend, unless we have more of Colonel Haultain's proclamations scattered about, I have unbounded faith in the principle on which it rests. Ido beliove that the Superintendents can deal with this question, and tliat the moment the responsibility is thrown on them, they will find the way to deal with it. Rebellion in any province is simply ruin to that province. To the General Government it is only a thing of remote consequence, involving a little expenditure, for which it does not care so long as ifc has to meet it the fag end of a loan, a few thousands illegally extracted from the pocket of the British bondholder, or a patient people rejoicing in the blessed privilege of paying to a paternal Government over £4 a head.

In connexion with the subject, I may mention that I would propose to place the administration of native affairs on the East Coast, at present at least, as far as Opotiki inclusive, in the hands of the Superintendent of Hawke's Bay, in whose hands, if the matter had been left two years ago, I believe all difficulties would have been settled long ago. I do not, however, wish to be considered as expressing any opinion on the question of territorial annexation to Hawke's Bay, or Poiverty Bay, or any other part of the East Coast, that being a question not necessarily involved in the treatment of the native difficulty, and one, in the adjustment of which I believe there would be no serious impediment if left to amicable arrangement between the authorities of the two provinces primarily interested in it.

In order to prevent misunderstanding, I must state that in using the words " not exceeding," I do not mean to leave any uncertainty in my proposal. Whatever the sum which this House might fix, should in such proportions as might be determined on be absolute^ the property of each province, and if fortunately peace could be maintained in any case without using it for defence purposes, the balance would be applicable for such works or institutions of a purely native character, as might from time to time be considered by those entrusted with its expenditure as the best means of confirming the friendship of the native race, and rendering actual defence expenditure less necessary

year by year. The principal reason I have for retaining a strong control over the administration in the hands of the Genei'al Government is the fact that the action of any one province in native affairs may materially affect the position of other's, and the question therefore in that respect has a federal aspect which prevents the General GWernnient from absolutely shifting to other 1 sliouldei's uncontrolled responsibility in the matter.

Uncertainty as to Future Institutions',

Among the various causes which are fatally depressing the colony at this most critical time, both in respect to political and private progress, the most serious is beyond all doubt the uncertainty wbiph hangs over the existence of the Provincial Governments, and the nature of the institutions which it is proposed to substitute for them. This uncertainty is the .whole political capital of the Government. Ifc depends on combinations, excited by false promises and illusory hopes. It is ruin, to the provinces, that their territorial limits, their powers, liabilities and functions for the future should be so uncertain, that they feel they need care for nothing but the present day. The gradual undermining of the foundations of the provinces is death, and a lingering and painful death, to them. Better, a thousand times better, sweep them away to-day, and substitute some-: thing in their place, on which property and enterprise can build, and public spirit stand upon with secure footing in its endeavors to promote the progress and welfare of the colony. I am no enemy to local self government; I am, and ever have been, its warmest friend ; but I wish to see it made a reality and not a sham. I would extend it in every direction, but in subordination to, not set over the lieads of Provincial Institutions. I contend that this House will at all times be justified in ensuring the performance of this duty by the Provincial Governments, and that if they are lax in providing for local self government, this House may justly interfere to aid outlying districts in obtaining such subordinated institutions for local purposes as may be necessary and desirable in connection with the provincial centre. I would extend local self government equally to agricultural and mining districts. But, in doing so, I would hold out no premium to discontent ; I would encourage a feeling of satisfaction, not labour to fan the flame of dissatisfaction with the institutions of the country. In the policy which I have foreshadowed, I forsee the gradual but constantly progressing assimilation of the laws, the interests, and the institutions of the several provinces. I forsee in it a constant.tendency to induce the provinces to unite for many purposes, till they can unite for all. I see an end to all that feverish political excitement which is become so large an element of our existing system, and I see the opportunity given, to the reinstated provinces to devote themselves to those proper colonizing functions, which now are rendered all but impossible. Stewart's Island need no longer continue a waste — the West Coast of Otago unpeopled — :Westland uncertain of its future — Nelson in constant fear to do justice to its outlying districts because of the prospect of dismemberment — Taranaki without a career or a hope — Hawke's Bay oppressed by an intolerable incubus — Wellington, Canterbury, Auckland, and Otago paralysed by the dread of constantly recurring organic change. In the Government policy on the other hand, I see nothing but a perpetually dissolving view — a thing which has no solidity, .no permanence, no stability — a constitution by which nothing is constituted — a circle which has no centre and no circumference — I see a policy which is composed of insidious destructiveness in one direction, and of purposeless drifting in another, galvanised into life by the application of a system of unblushing political bribery, addressed to those sectious of the community which are ever ready to sell great political birthrights for small but immediate messes of tempting and savory pottage. In conclusion, Sir, I may be expected to say something on the much dreaded question of borrowing. Ido so because I wish to conceal from this House no single thing that is on my mind. I do not honor the policy of reticence, and the practice of political reserve, especially when great principles are at stake. lam not in favor x>f present additions to the liabilities either of the provinces or of the colony ; whilst I admit that public works of an unquestionably reproductive character may, with advantage, be. carried on with borrowed money. I am most decidedly of opinion that under present . circumstances we must pause. We must bring back the colony into a position in which, it may prudently expend, before we resort to fresh expenditure. Before we submit our shoulders to fresh liabilities we must be sure that we can bear those already laid upon them. One of the earliest occasions on which I hope to see the colonial or provincial credit pledged, will be when we feel ourselves prepared to undertake fresh and extensiveraihvay operations; and I believe it will be wise policy in any Government which may be in office to be gradually preparing the way for the introduction of some general scheme in that direction, which may obviate the evils which in other and older countries have attended the want of system, of proper construction, and of proper government direction, particularly at the commencement. I have nothing further to say. The policy which I have proposed is based on fixed principles — and is in conformity with the spirit of the Constitution under which the colony has made much progress. On the other side I can see no principle — nothing which my mind can lay hold of with a view to the future : and I do trust that this House will not suffer it to be carried any further than it has been, without at least the constituencies having the opportunity of expressing an opinion upon it at a general election of the colony.

Mr. G-baham supported the amendment. He complained that the Government had totally neglected the administration of affairs in Auckland, had wasted large sums of money, and kept up an irritating policy towards the natives.

The Hon. Mr. Stafford said the hon. member for Rangitikei had supported his amendment in a very temperate and busi-ness-like manner. The hon. gentleman confined himself to the thread of the subject, and did not permit the committee to wander from it. The hon. gentleman's speech might be said to divide itself into two leading topics. The first was, that instead of the interest and sinking fund upon provincial loans being paid from the Colonial Treasury, and charged as a fixed charge, they should be still paid by the provinces, and that, in consideration of that being paid, there should be a capitation of 30s. for all purposes of administration, instead of a capitation allowance of 7s. a head as proposed by the Government after paying from the Colonial Treasury the permanent charges., The second topic related to native affairs, in which the hon. gentleman stated he would allow £100,000- —

Mr. Fox: A sum not exceeding £100,000. It might be anything less. The Hon. Mr. {Stafford could not see

how the scheme of the hon. gentleman would obviate log tolling- There was £400,000 to be divided among the Provinces, and in that he saw a very fruitful element of what was called " log rolling " in the scheme. By the Government proposal such a thing W&s impossible. As to the payment of provincial stock the effect of the consolidation of loans would be, in a great measure, to destroy the identity of particular stock, and it would be impossiule to make such payments quarterly, and it woifld be no answer to the bondholder to inform him of the difficulty that had arisen. The charge that the General Government interfered with provincial acts : the Government never saw those acts until they were returned with the AttorneyGeneral's minutes upon them. The appointment of secretary for the provinces would not harmonise the action of provinces, but would rather cause jealousies. The principle of the Government was not to interfere with any province, and when " a mess " was caused it would be known who was responsible. He disputed the fact that the depression of the colony was attributable to taxation. It proceeded from the fact that resources which contributed to the spending power of the country had ceased, and that persons were drawing large remittances for loans outside the country. The expenditure of two.or three million of Imperial money had been withdrawn. Then the products of the country, gold and wool, had diminished. These had diminished almost simultaneously. Had they come one by one the elasticity of the country would have surmounted the difficulty. He did not mention these things as an argument in support of taxation. With respect to the proclamation of the Hon. Defence Minister, it was a peace-making proclamation.

Mr. Fox : the hon. member will see that the local papers attribute the disasters to such proclamations.

The Hon. Mr. Staffobd : The hostility of the natives is an instinct of humanity not to be overcome by the promulgation of a policy. The second point was that the administration of native affairs should be entrusted to Superintendents of provinces. Some Superintendents might be well qualified to administer native affairs, others were not so. Was it because the Superintendent of Hawke's Bay was Superintendent that he was qualified? ISo, but because he was Donald M'Lean, with more than twenty years' experience of native negotiations. Were there to be four different native policies ? The time was too late for that. The legislature would not do anything so insane as to deliver up the natives to a Superintendent without reference to his fitness or qualification. There were members in that House and many outside it, who would not allow such a thing to be" done. He was glad the hon. gentleman agreed with the Government that there should be no more loans. He was also glad to hear him propose a reduction of taxation. But those propositions in his speech which were new were unworkable, and those that were nol new were identical with those of the Go-

vernment.

Mr. Curtis said he would be compelled to vote against the financial policy of the Government for he thought it so unjust as to be fraught with injury to the wiiole of the colony. He did not agree with all the opinions of the Opposition, and yet he must give his vote against the Government. He agreed with the proposition to dissolve the partnership account. He believed there could be no reasonable reduction of taxation. He proceeded to show the gross injustice done to the provinces. According to the tables appended to the fiuancial statement it was sought to be shown that some provinces' would be large gainers ; but a closer examination would show that they would be large losers. In the case of Nelson she would be paying £19,000 or £20,000 a year towards liabilities of other provinces. The effect of the financial proposal was to give Otago and Canterbury £100,000 each and to take away a large sum from JSTelson, from Auckland, and also from Wellington. The only calculation of the liabilities of provinces should be based upon a computation per head of their population. As to the separation of gold fields from the provinces with which they existed, the House should beware of the amount of special representation which would arise — representation owing to the migratory character of the constituencies, attended with very serious difficulties. As to the capitation allowance of 75., in some provinces the cost was 2s. lOd. per head, in Otago it was 16s. a head, in IN elson 20s. a head. The injustice that would be done by the adjustment proposed would cause heart burnings that could not be dispelled .until such injustices were removed. The Government policy left every province in doubt as to its position — it was a policy of xmcertainty.

Mr. Eetnolbs had no confidence in the Government. They were constantly occupied in devising small bribes to particular localities. Time was wasted session after session, and business rushed through at the close of the session. The present Government impeded the progress of the Colony.

On the motion of Mr. Campbell the Chairman reported progress and asked leave to sit again next sitting day.