TUESDAY, MARCH 27.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume 3, Issue 133, 7 April 1860, Page 3

TUESDAY, MARCH 27.

The Council met pursuant to adjournment, Present, the Speaker and all the members.

Finance Committee.

Mr. TxrcKEE brought up tlie report of the Finance Committee. [This document appears in our present issue under the head of " Council Paperß."]

Audit Act.

Mr. Oemond would now move the second reading of this Bill. In doing so, he was not wedded to all its provisions. But, with all due credit to the Provincial Auditor, the late examination of the accounts had shewn that something was wanted beyond the present system of examining the accounts. He believed that objection was made to the appointment of auditors resting with the council, but this he regarded as the most important feature of the bill. It had also been said that it would be necessary to appoint a Treasurer, and that great expense would thus be entailed ; but in any case he maintained that such appointments as those indicated in the Audit Bill would be necessary ; as, without such, there could be no efficient check upon the public expenditure. Dr. Hitching s, in seconding the motion, said that the Auditor had done bis duty, and not only so, but had worked morning, noon, and night. He thought that the council should consider the advisability of voting the salary of a 2nd clerk, as well as of thanking the Auditor for the work he had hitherto performed. Mr. FitzGeeaiiD said that he had not yet seen the evidence taken by the committee, but he had heard nothing to justify the total repeal of the Wellington Audit Act, although he was quite prepared to meet the council in the way of its amendment. In Nelson, the official Auditor was appointed by the Superintendent, and two auditors appointed by the council periodically to examine the accounts,, which he thought a much better system than doing away with the Audit

office altogether. Much better to have a double audit — one by the Auditor, and the other as against the Treasurer; and this could be done under the present Act, with some additions. But altogeth.er-to^alter the present system — one which had hitherto worked so well on the whole — to begin one of very doubtful utility, would, he thought, be very unwise ; nor would it be any saving to the province, for the services of an accountant or of an additional clerk would immediately become necessary. He thought that the council should be satisfied with the present system . — seeing that they had power always to appoint additional auditors. With regard to the necessity of appointing another Treasurer, the General Government had not driven them up into a corner in this matter ; and he (Mr. F.) would be glad to see the present Treasurer continued in office until sufficiently provided for under the Customs Act, which at present he was not — bis salary being only £250. But when the new appointments came to be made, the Treasurer having then to examine the accounts and forward them to the Superintendent, would require a clerk, and it would soon be found that the money of the province was entirely at the disposal of the Treasurer and his clerk. Much better to have an independent officer as Auditor ; apart from the consideration that so sudden a change of system, after only 7 months trial, would not, at a distance, raise their character for judgment and steadiness. With the remark that he opposed the bill in its present shape, he sat down.

Mr. Colenso said that, from the office he held, it might be better that he should be silent on this motion, but, as a member of council, he felt it his duty to say a few words. He had long advocated the present system of audit, and experience had shewn him no reason to alter his opinion. But the system did not seem to be so much objected to, as the fact of the Auditor holding a seat in the council. Now, he looked upon this as a still greater security to the province ; for no man could be in council without, to some extent, taking one side or other, and his actions would, in co)\sequence, be keenly looked to by the opposition. With reference to the bill before the council, there ■were some points he liked, and 3ome he disliked. Laws were generally made under one of the following circumstances, — Where there were none before ; where imperfect laws wanted amendment ; and where bad or obsolete laws wanted expunging from the statute book. But in the case before the council, it -was proposed to make a law for none of these purposes, but actually for the purpose of destroying a good law. He would vote against its second reading — not because it affected him in the least, for whether it was agreed to or not, his course was decided upon ; but because he plainly saw that the only effective mode of audit was to examine the accounts before they were presented to the Treasurer for payment. Then the bill seemed to have been put together in a hurry. In the 4th clause they were told that the Auditors should publish a quarterly abstract of the accounts in the " Government Gazette ; " while in the 6th and 7th it was provided that a select committee of the Council should again publish a financial statement — two publications, the one apparently riding against the other. And where the need of this, unless on the assumption that the statement of the auditors could not be depended upon ? He could point out other anomalies in the bill, but had said enough to shew that it could not be compared with the Wellington Act. Mr. Alexander said that the principle in this bill to which, above all others, he cordially agreed, was that of empowering the council to appoint auditors, and requiring the auditors so appointed to examine the accounts quarterly and make public the result, Examinations at such short intervals would have this advantage, that the accounts would then be fresh in the memories of those who had to deal with them ; and a systematic audit was the more necessary from the fact that the council handed over to the Superintendent the whole revenue for the period of one year. At the same time, the bill did not provide for a check such as that to be found under the present system, which was in reality a double audit, and one that offered- much security to the public. Perhaps the views of the member for Waipukurau could be met by both systems being incorporated. Mr. Cttkling- would like to know if it were true that sums of money had been paid by the Auditor, without the warrant of the Superintendent. If so, that was an additional reason for the present bill.

Mr. 3?itz Gerald said that, on one occosion, while about to leave the province for a short time, he had authorised the Treasurer to pay the ordinary authorised expenditure upon the warrant usually sent to him by the Auditor. Any new expenditure would not have been paid by the Treasurer. In doing this, he (Mr. F.) had followed the example set elsewhere ; %nd the Deputy Superintendent, it would be remembered, had no power under the Constitution Act, any more than any other person, to sign warrants for the payment of money.

Mr. Oemokd in reply, said that he moved the second reading of this bill under the disadvantage of the unavoidable absence of his colleague (Mr. Tucker) — giving him very little chance of getting the bill passed. The member for Napier had said that no reason had been given why the system of audit after payment should be adopted. No such reason, it was true, had been given in the financial report, but it could easily be given in the council. Money had been paid by an officer connected with the road parties without any receipt for it having been taken — with nothing, in fact, to show that it was expended on government account.

Mr. FiTzGrEBAiD here submitted that, if newmatter was to be introduced, it should be in such a form as to give a right of reply. Mr. Oemond (in continuation) said that there was another fact, to which allusion had been made by the member for Te Aute, viz., that -warrants for payment had been signed by the Auditor for the Superintendent. This was destructive of the principal security the public possessed, and could not have occurred under the new. Audit Act. Much had been said in favour of the Wellington Act, but the bill before the Council embodied nearly the whole of that Act— thedifference being the addition of clauses 2, 3, and 4. And with re-

gavd to one return interfering with another, life thought the annual report of the Finance Committee would be something totally distinct from the quarterly returns of the Auditors, But, to save the time of the Council, he was perfectly willing to withdraw the bill if the Superintendent would support the addition of the three clauses ha he had named to the old Act.

Mr. FitzGeraid was happy to concur in th& proposed additions to the present Act ; although he hoped that, in practice, the Act of the Province of Nelson would he adhered to, so that, as at present, the services of a permanent Auditor would be retained, to examine the accounts before payment. He would conclude by moving as an amendment that the debate on the second reading of the Audit Bill be adjourned till to-morrow, when he hoped that, by mutual arrangement, it would be in such a shape as not to waste the time of the Council in its discussion.

The amendment was agreed to, and the Council adjourned till Wednesday.