THURSDAY, MARCH 22.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume 3, Issue 132, 31 March 1860, Page 3

THURSDAY, MARCH 22.

The council met pursuant to adjournment. Present, — The Speaker and all the members. Treasv/ry and Audit Bill. Mr. Osmond, pursuant to notice, moved for leave to bring in a bill to be entitled the Treasury and Audit Act, and to repeal the Audit Act at present in force within the province. He said that, in introducing a bill to provide for an alteration in the system of auditing the publio accounts, he would first explain that he had been slightly in error in including the words "treasury and" in his notice — seeing that this department waß already* provided for in the Executive Act. He would therefore, with the leave of the council, withdraw those words. He had brought in this bill, because he believed the Audit system at present practised to be opposed to the principle of audit laid down elsewhere ; and that it was exceedingly desirable that the officers whose duty it was to check the expenditure of the publio moneys' should not be members of that council, nor be connected in any way with party or party interests. They should also be independent of the Superintendent, and not hold their office under him or at his pleasure. Under the provisions of the bill, the appointment of the auditors, who might be two in number, would rest with the council ; and such auditors would not be compe-

tent to accept any other office under the government whilst acting in such capacity. They would audit the treasurer's accounts every three months, and publish a statement of the same. They would also be required to send a yearly report for the information of the council. Mr. Cubling- seconded the motion. Mr. FitzGeeald was surprised that any alteration should be proposed such as that involved in the introduction of this bill, until, at loast, the report of the finance committee should be brought up ; and it would surely be more in accordance 1 with the practice elsewhere if, before proposing to repeal an existing law, it would be shewn that it was inoperative, or that it worked unsatisfactorily. He would not object to any alteration of the law, so long as good grounds were adduced. But do not let it go forth to the world that we are so enamoured of law-making as to repeal old laws and make new ones without being able to give a reason for the change. The Wellington Act had, he believed, worked well ; he had heard no objection to it except that it added to the Superintendent's power; but surely the position of the Superintendent in Wellington was different to that of a Superintendent elected by the council and responsible to them. He would move as an amendment that the consideration of the bill he be deferred till after the report of the finance committee be brought up. Mr. Alexander intended opposing the motion. At the same time, he confessed that he concurred in the principle of the bill ; but, until disadvantages in the operation of the present Act could be clearly shewn, he considered it premature to supersede it by the present bill. The council was yet young, and. should not be in too great a hurry to make new laws — not, at least, before seeing that it was necessary to do so. He admitted that, looking forward in the distance, he could see cases in which the province would suffer from the operation of the present Audit Act ; and as the council gave power to the Superintendent to spend the public money almost as he pleased for the period of 12 months, he thought it would not be stepping out of its way in asking, at all events, for the right of appointing auditors to examine the public accounts. But the proposed Act he thought, might be more beneficially introduced at a future period. He would therefore second the amendment. Mr. Colenso said that he had before him two Audit Acts, one passed in Wellington and the other in Nelson ; and the bill now brought before the council was, he believed, in a great measure the same as the Nelson Act. It was passed in. 1853, and the Wellington Act, with the experience of the Nelson one before them, in 1854 He had never heard that any fault was found with the Wellington Act ; the lynx-eyed opposition council at Wellington had discovered no defects in it ; but they had placed an opinion upon record that the practice of Hawke's Bay with regard to the auditing of the accounts was much to be desired in Wellington. He believed that in no province of New Zealand was there so great a check upon the public accounts as in Hawke's Bay. He awaited the report of the finance committee, or, rather, of the accountants called in to assist. If they, on finishing their labors, discovered that the system waß faulty and liable to error,' by all means bring in the bill ; but, in the meantime, it would be absurd to do away with a system which was known to work well. The mover of the bill had said enough in his remarks to shew that the animus was against himself — the unfortunate Auditor. But although he might find himself called upon to give up the office he so unfortunately held, he would not give up his seat in that council at the beck or call of any one. He would speak against the bill and for the amendment. He could not consent to a bill which wa3 unnecessary, uncalled for, and without grounds ; and the effect of which would be to do away with a system of audit which had worked well and which was working well. Mr. Tucker, in rising to support the motion of his colleague, regretted that the previous speaker should persist in regarding all action taken in this matter as personal to himself. He (Mr. Tucker) disclaimed all personal animosity against that member ; nay more, he had perfect confidence in him as auditor, and would be sorry if he did not continue to fill that office. But he argued on principle, without reference to individuals, and he unhesitatingly said that, commercially speaking and according to custom, there was not sufficient check upon the public accounts. He confessed that he was surprised at the member for Napier expressing acquiescence in the bill, yet supporting the amendment. He could not realize that member's motives in so doing. Mr. Alexandeb, in explanation, repeated his reason for so doing. Mr. TtfCKEB contended that the explanation was not sufficient to justify an act so inconsistent. Had leave even been granted to bring the bill in, and opposition offered on the first or second reading, he should not have complained. But he thought the council was bound in courtesy to permit the bill to be brought in, even if it should be thrown out afterwards. The member for Napier had used rather a curious argument — that because the Wellington Act was passed subsequently to the Nelson one, it was necessarily the better measure of the two, and the one to be adopted by us. But, even were it so, the action i of the act was essentially different in this province i to what it was in Wellington ; the duties of Audii tor here were the same as those performed by Mr. ; Wallace in Wellington. The vouchers were cxi amined by that gentleman, countersigned by the Superintendent, paid by the treasurer, whose aci counts were audited every half year — a system . respecting the soundness of which, no reasonable i man would differ in opinion. And the auditors i by whom this was done were generally men beyond the pale of politics. It had been said that the i treasurer in Napier also looked sharply into the i accounts ; but he (Mr. Tucker) much doubted if that officer felt himself called upon to scrutinise • every road party voucher, after he had received a : warrant for the payment under the hand of the ■ Superintendent. Then there was the objection as i to the extra expense the new system would entail > on the provinco ; but he thought that any extra i charge would be judiciously incurred in seeing ■ that the public money was properly expended.

Dr. Hitchings would not oppose the introduction of the bill, at any rate. Mr. Osmond was quite willing that the second i reading of the Act should stand over till after the report of the finance committee, although the principle of it would be in no way affected by the report. The Superintendent had said that as his office was constituted, an appointment made by him was the same as if made by the council. But he (Mr. Ormond) did not think so; and thought, moreover, that the Superintendent would do well to ask the opinion of that council upon the appointment of the chief officers of the government — a course which might lead to a better state of things. He could not comprehend the course taken by the member for Napier country (Mr. Alexander) who, after expressing approval of the principle of the bill, might surely, in courtesy, have abstained from opposing its introduction. He believed that in this instance the report of the finance committee would be quite satisfactory, but ifc might not always be so. With an auditor appointed by the Superintendent, and that auditor, it might be, one of his own party, he (Mr. Ormond) could not see that such a systemiof audit, of itself, was a sufficient protection to btVpnbHo. Mr. Couenso explained that all contingency vouchers were certified by the heads of depart- | ments before they came into his hands. They were afterwards examined minutely by the treasurer, and returned by him if he saw anything wrong, -which he had done in more instances than one. The amendment was then put and negatived on the following division : — Ayes — Messrs. Alexander, FitzGerald, Colenso, and Carter, 4. Noes — Messrs. Hatchings, Ormond, Tucker, Eiddell, Curling, 5. The original motion was then put and carried ; the bill read a first time and its second reading made an order of the day for Friday. Accident to Barque JEclijase. The council went into committee upon the adjourned inquiry into the circumstances attending the accident to this vessel. Mr. CoiENSO moved the adoption by the committee of the following resolution : — " That this Committee of the whole Provincial Council of Hawke's Bay, having carefully heard and investigated all the evidence within their reach touching the going ashore of the barque ' Eclipse' on the Eastern Spit of the harbour of Port Napier on the 13th inst., are unanimously of opinion, that the said unfortunate occurrence is mainly to be attributed to an unexpected combination of accidental and untoward circumstances. At the same time they, in strict justice, consider themselves compelled to record their further unanimous opinion, that had the steam-boat c Wonga Wonga,' which had been engaged to tow her out of the harbour, been ready at the proper time of tide, the accident might possibly not have happened. And, that no blame whatever can be reasonably attached to the harbour master and pilot Mr. Thomas Murray, who certainly did the best in his power under all and every circumstance. And, as they find, that the said barque ' Eclipse ' returned to her old moorings in the harbour on the night of the 14th inst., in the dark (there being no moon) and at nearly low water, they are further assured of the safety and ease of approach of the harbour of Port Napier under all ordinary circumstances." The report was adopted without dissent, and ordered to be printed, with evidence attached. Estimates. The council then went into committee on the adjourned consideration of the estimates. Crown Lands. — Chief Commissioner, also Chief Surveyor, at £400. Mr. FitzGerald said that a. select committee had recommended the severance of the two offices, and this would probably take place, but the time was uncertain when it could be done, as there were difficulties in the way of fresh arrangements". Passed. Ist clerk, at £200 per annum, and 2nd clerk, at £150. Mr. FitzGerald said that at present two clerks were required, but that upon the appointment of a gentleman to fill the office of Commissioner, much of the work would be done by him, and one clerk would perform the remainder. It was proposed, therefore, to raise the salary of the chief clerk to £250, and dispense with the services of the 2nd clerk, although from the efficient manner in which he had performed his duties, some other opening would probably be found for him. Mr. Colenso thought £250 too high for any clerk to do government stroke. From 10 to 4in summer days, with one hour off for dinner, was not half a day's work. The present first clerk had during the term of provisional government been paid for extra work ; and if the sum was voted, he trusted it would be on the clear understanding that, irrespective of office hours, he was to do all the work. The salary of the first clerk was passed at £250 on this understanding, to commence from the time of the two offices being separated ; and that of the 2nd clerk for three months. Contingencies at £60 ; and travelling expenses of Commissioner, 45 days at £1 per day, passed— Dr. Hitchings objecting to the latter item, but not pressing an amendment. Surveys. — Mr. Ormond asked whether the large amount under this head. (£4775,) was likely to be continued from year to year. Mr. FitzG-erald ! hoped it would continue for many years ; for it would be a sure sign that the province had plenty of land. It would take at least 3 or 4 years to complete the surveys ; meanwhile the land sales were at the rate of about £3,500 per month, and likely to continue so. Chief Surveyor at £400. j Passed, on the understanding that it should only commence upon the severance of the two offices. 4 surveyors at ;£3OO. Passed. Field allowances at £60 each. Mr. Ormond moved that this item be struck off, as the evidence of the Chief Commissioner went to shew that such allowances had not I led to any increase of work — this being the inten- ; tion with which the amount was originally voted. Mr. Colenso would be inclined to agree to this, ; but for the fact that Mr. Wright had engaged those gentlemen, for twelve months upon those terms. Mr. Alexander would like to know what authority Mr. Wright had to do this. Mr. FitzGerald said that he gave Mr. Wright authority. The allowance had been voted for the first three months of ;

the year, and it was only fair to assume that it would be for the remaining nine. The surveys had been in a very unsatisfactory state, and some prompt measures were much wanted. Neither of the gentlemen engaged would remain in the service were any reduction made. They had come in fact principally on account of the climate, having been in receipt of £700 a year in Sydney. After some further discussion, Mr. Ormond withdrew his opposition, but said that the sum, in being set down as allowances, was not, under the circumstances, correctly stated. Passed. Laborers at 6s. per diem, at £1500 per an. Passed ; also contingencies at £400 — Mr. Fitz Gerald explained that much of this item was for instruments, which the Chief Surveyor of Wellington had removed immediately upon separation becoming a fact ; also, 2 draftsmen at £200. To the item of "Travelling expenses of Chief Surveyor," say 60 days at £1, Dr. Hitchings objected on the ground that such allowance would encourage that officer to leave his office duties, and that the council was getting the character of a spendthrift body. Item passed. Also, 2 assistant surveyors at £250, and field allowances at £50 each. 3Xwrlntwr J.tnprovt!Tnen&s. — Dkoi,i/<» .fW»-L<j-!ii £300 per annum. Mr. Fitz Gerald said that the gentleman filling this office was at present in Sydney, endeavouring to complete arrangements for a steam dredge, but might be expected back by next mail steamer. At the date of last advices nothing had been concluded, because without proof by actual experiment that the dredge would raise a certain quantity at a certain consumption of fuel, Mr. Wright's instructions would not permit him to close the purchase. Agreed to, also contingencies and travelling expenses, £75 for the 9 months— this item being explained to be for office furniture, &c, and for Mr. Wright's expenses when absent, at £2 per week. Town Roads, Bsc. — Milton road, £-200. Mr. Ormond moved that this item be struck off the estimates. In two consecutive sessions the council had expressed its opinion upon this amount. It would only be voting for a road that passed between the property of two government officers. Messrs. Curling, Colenso, Alexander, and FitzGerald supported the vote on the ground of this being the only means of communication with the barracks, burial ground, hospital, &c, and also on account of the "Local Improvements Bill" having been thrown out. With the exception of the reference to the latter, nothing new was adduced. On the amendment being put the only "aye" was that of the mover, and the item was then passed as on the estimates. Carlyle Street, £2,0. Mr. Ormond moved that it be struck out. Although some of the country members had been induced to vote money into the pockets of a few inhabitants of the town, he hoped they would be contented with what they had already done. Mr. Alexander seconded, and Mr. Curling supported the amendment. The town members fought sturdily for the vote, but their speeches were but a reiteration of the arguments already reported in, these columns. Mr. Ormond at last consented to withdraw the amendment if the Superintendent would pledge himself not to place another vote on the estimates for a street or road in the town of Napier. Mr. Fitz Gerald gave the required pledge so far ps streets above water were concerned, and the amount was passed as on the estimates. Public Pump or Fountain at Napier, £100. This was explained to mean a good well sunk in a central place for the use of the public, with a trough or fountain attached for the use of horses and cattle. It was represented as more wanted by country people, for their bullocks, horses, &c, than even by residents, and the item passed without opposition. Provincial 'Engineers Department. — Engineer, at £350, and travelling expenses at £100, passed. Clerk, at £150, and travelling expenses at £50. Mr. FitzGerald said that he had an application from this officer for an increased allowance for travelling expenses, the sum on the estimates being wholly insufficient. This officer had given great satisfaction, was punctual and regular, and made his returns in good order. Mr. Ormond asked if an Assistant Engineer had not been appointed. Mr. FitzGerald said not permanently, but a gentleman of the survey staff was assisting him by surveying the various lines of road, which had never'yet been properly marked out. Mr. Ormond had no objection to the increased travelling allowance, but thought the Superintendent should find some other employment for the paymaster when he was not otherwise engaged ; no one could help seeing that he had a great deal of spare time on his hands. Mr. Colenso said that his duties were of such a nature that he was frequently called upon to do two or three days' work in one — having to perform long heavy journies, in which, from the sum of money he carried, considerable risk was incurred. His accounts were always furnished in a most satisfactory state. Item postponed till after the finance report had been brought up. Contingencies at £50 passed. Napier to Waipweku, £3000.— This vote was placed on the estimates, Mr. FitzGerald said, at the request of a member ; and it was for the council to consider whether such a work was necessary at the present time. There could be no doubt that at present it required three horses to draw less than, were the road made, could be drawn by one. The natives had not yet given their consent to the proposed change of route ; their terms being that the government Bbould pay rent for the Ferry-house site, which, as forming a. bad precedent, had not been acceded to. — Mr. Ormond moved that the consideration of this item be deferred till next session, when the council would be better acquainted with the financial position of the province. — Mr. Rhodes strongly supported the vote. He believed that this sum should have been voted long sinee — before the Te Aute road was commenced. Such works should always be begun at the town, where everything was easy of access, and continued from there into the country. The town and country settlers would equally benefit by a good road between Clive and Napier. The latter were now paying for carriage at the high rate of £8 per ton, which, was mainly owing to the state of the Waipureku, road, to travel over which was considered more than equal to all the rest of the journey, inland.. Then there was the consideration that the bank opposite the mouth of the Awapuni was gradually

rearing away ; and that, in the event of a flood, communication with the interior would be altogether cut off. — The discussion upon this point was a prolonged one, ending in the amendment of Mr. Ormond being agreed to. Roads and Bridges. — On the total under this item, passed in December last, coming on for confirmation, Mr. Alexander took occasion to condemn the expenditure that was being incurred on 'the road between Porangahau and, Waipukurau. It was squandering the public money, without ■any chance of its being returned, directly or indirectly. A bridle path would have been quite sufficient. If his remarks had no other effect, he trusted they would be the means of preventing for the future so egregious a waste of public money. — Mr. FitzGerald explained that the idea of this road originated with the wardens of Waipukurau • shire, not with the government, which had only carried into effect an engagement made with that body by the Superintendent of Wellington. The chairman then reported progress, and the council adjourned.