WEDNESDAY, MARCH 21.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume 3, Issue 132, 31 March 1860, Page 2

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 21.

The Council met pursuant to adjournment. Present the Speaker and all the members. Land Regulations. Mr. Ttjckek, pursuant to notice, moved for the addition of the following clause to the land regulations to be embodied in the memorial : — " That in the event of agricultural land held under license from the crown, being purchased, the holder shall he entitled to claim the value of any improvements, such value to be assessed by the Land Board as before provided for." He said that, in speaking to this motion it was necessary to remind the council that when the additional land regulations were laid on the table, he expressed his wish that this clause should be included ; and knowing that, as chairman of committees, his mouth would be closed when they were debated, he asked the council to propose this addition in order that the matter might be taken together with the other regulations. This course not having been adopted, he was compelled to make a separate motion upon the subject. He asked this more especially for many license holders who would otherwise derive no benefit from the additional regulations — who might indeed, be sufferers by them. He asked it as a common act of justice to men who might by circumstances be compelled to make improvements, and who were liable, without any notice or chance of competition, to have the lands which they occupy with the consent of the crown, bought over their heads. He would instance as a precedent for this measure, that it has been the rule in this province to add the value of improvements to the price of land, even when the parties making such improvements, were occupying without the consent of the crown. This was the case when the town and suburban lands were sold ; it is also tacitly imdersfcood that the same course should be adopted at Clive. Napier was sold by auction, and Clive will be sold in the same way ; so that the illegal occupant not only got the value of his improvements but also in every instance that he had heard of, the land at the upset price. By this motion he simply sought that the legal occupier of the land should be entitled to claim the actual value of his improvements, assessed by public officers ; while in the case of Napier the value of the improvements was assessed by the occupant. Mr. Coi/ENSO said that, he had endeavoured to look at the amendment from the same position in the field of view as that occupied by the member for Waipukurau and his friends, as well as from that which he himself occupied. And after all he could only arrive at one and the same conclusion. He looked upon it as even worse than any clause in those proposed new land regulations ; against the principles of which he had fought, and subsequently with all his might resisted every clause — but this in his opinion beat them all. He knew that those regulations were for the good and bene- •; fit of the class or party of gentleman runholders, but what he advocated was for the good of all — of the whole province. And he would therefore resist the proposed addition to the utmost, although it might again be, as before, that he should : be found in the glorious minority of one. He had already called the attention of the council to the ambiguity of clause 4, — " where unpurchased agricultural land is found within the boundaries of a run over which a lease is granted, &c." And had, after some difficulty, got that portion of that clause altered in committee, by haying the words "the non-agricultural land of" inserted between

the words " over " and " which." Th^t clause as it originally Btood did to all intents ap^purposes go far to lock xip the agricultural land ; and a lawyer would have made much of it ; bat it was altered. And now another and a more gross attempt was made in order to secure that object. He did not then go so far as to say, that that was designedly done ; but now what other could he think. Could he say, grant but this, and their all is gone! The non-agricultural land already locked up ; and the agricultural now sought to be: All to be done as the runholders would have it ; and this he was to be told was based on the broad principle of justice, and for the good of the province ! He knew very well that he should be again spoken of as having " deadly hatred" to the runholders ; but the truth was, he wished to serve them and their real interests ; he strove hard to save them from that obloquy which must necessarily be theirs, if such a grossly unjust addition as this now proposed should be carried. In clause 6 of the proposed new land regulations the term " improvement " was defined to be that "of fencing and sowing with English grasses" — but here a step farther was taken, and we now had the worda " any improvements " ! Once more he would say, — Grant but this additional clause as proposed this day, and all is gone I He knew he should be told, there are the blocks to be set apart each to contain 1500 to 2000 acres. What of them ? Could there be more than 3, or at most. 4, such blocks found and set apart ? And was not human nature the same in alt ? Did not a man now on arriving here wish to act as they themselves had done — and go, and look, and select for himself a place on which to dwell ? In clause 11 he saw no allowance proposed to be given to the poor man — the 40 acre occupier ; he had 10 years to pay for it in, but he had to pay a heavy interest, and if he could not pay it, what became of his improvements? Oh! they could not think of his being allowed for improvements. A mail might come out from his father-land, leaving his wife and children behind (as it was well-known several had done,) and he might settle down on a 40, or a 100 acre block, and he might die after being a few years on it — and what would become of his improvements ? Was it not enough that the runholder had already in hia favor — 1. the long lease ; 2. the low rent ; 3. the right of purchase, — extended, in his case to 14 years and no interest to pay, while the poor man had only 10 years allowed him, and 10 per cent, interest! 4. the fencing act ; 5. the large number of cattle great or small ; 6. the extensive poisoning of their runs, which alarmed some on account of their families ; and, 7. their strong combination ? They had all these in their favor, and -yet they still sought more. To effectually lock up the agricultural land from the immigrant by seeking for value for improvements ! He (Mr. C.) had stood there, and opposed with all his might the measure, as he now did this addition to it. He had spoken against it repeatedly — he had called upon them to consider — he had even gone so far as to predict what he believed would inevitably follow ; and he could not help thinking — when he (last week) remembered the month and time, and what histoiy had told them concerning a certain popular Csesar, how he had been in vain warned by the soothsayers to " Beware of the ides of March " — that their own little Csesar might yet have to look back and date the warning of his popularity from his too not timely heeding the friendly warning voice, — "Beware of the ides of March!" Mr. Alexjjtoee said that, for the first time, he supported the member for Napier. He could by no means agree with the motion. The matter of it should have been brought forward when the land regulations were under discussion [Mr. Tucker, it was.] At all events it was not embodied in the report. He considered that, to allow it to pass would be to perpetrate a .great injustice ; it would have the effect of entirely locking up the lands of the province in the hands of the runholder. He thought that if the runholder directed his attention to the improvement of ss. land he would have enough to do. Capt. Cauteb moved, as an amendment the addition of the following words to the clause under discussion : — " Provided said improvements do not extend over more than 80 acres." Mr. Coienso said that the amendment in no way bettered matters. The runholder, if he had this privilege, could easily so dot the agricultural land on his run as effectually to keep out all others. The 80 acres might in this way be equal to 1000; And it was a point never to be forgotten that the very board by whom these improvements would be assessed would be a board composed of runholders. It would be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. In speaking thus strongly against both motion and amendment, he would not, however, be understood as speaking against the runholder, but on the broad princple of right. Were the motion to pass, a gross injustice would be done to the other interests of the province. Mr. FitzGtEBAED was sorry "to see any addition proposed to the regulations that had been already approved of ; because the public would look with much suspicion upon the attempt. It would scarcely be admitted that any person had a right to be allowed for improvements upon agricultural land, unless from force of circumstances, such as prior occupation, he had been compelled to improve. The government, it was true, had hitherto followed the rule of permitting the value of improvements on land occupied to be added to the upset price ; but this was very different from providing for future improvements upon land to be leased under new regulations. He thought that if any one wished to make improvements of the kind indicated, it was only right and proper, when so small a quantity^>f land was intended to be improved, that he should purchase it outright at the commencement. He was sorry to see anew regulation introduced, the action of which was likely to.be so insignificant. He was aware that many runholders had felt it as a hardship that, under a notice which the Chief Commissioner 1 thought fit to publish during the term of the provisional government, their homesteads were liable to be sold ; but he (Mr. F.) believed that the Commissioner had no authority for- issuing that notice, although doubtless he acted to the best of, his judgment. He believed that had any homesteads been sold in consequence of such an-

nouncement the Supreme Court would set the sale aside; or rather, the grants for the same would not be issued. He would suggest that the member for Waipukurau would do weE to withdraw his motion. Mr. Tucker would first acknowledge on behalf of himself and brother runholders the deep sympathy, evidently genuine, which was felt for them By the member for Napier (Mr. Colenso), and which that member so often displayed in actions, aa well as by . words — especially in . always pitting the "poor man" againstthat very obnoxious class. They had heard a great deal against the justice of the proposed clause ; although he confessed that he could not see the force of the arguments used to that effect. Presuming that the board would act conscientiously, which although the member for Napier evidently thought that he himself was the only conscientious man in the community, he (Mr. Tucker) believed was likely to be the case, where was the injustice in an occupant, upon being dispossessed, receiving the assessed value of improvements for which he had paid, and from which the purchaser would derive the full benefit. As to the remark that the land should be bought, there was a limit to the purchasing capacity of every man. The runholder, it would appear, was to be completely disqualified from a seat in the land board ; and he (Mr. Tucker) feared that were the line of argument followed out they would also be disqualified to sit as magistrates, and, presently, as members of council. The amendment of Capt. Caeter was then put and negatived. The original motion was also negatived on the following division : — Noes, — Messrs. Carter, Alexander, EitzGrerald, Colenso, and Hitchings. (5.) Ayes, — Messrs. Riddell, Ormond, Curling, and Tucker. (4.) Sheep and Scab Act. Mr. TtrCEEE obtained leave to defer] the bringing up of the report till next session. The committee were desirous of obtaining the opinion of more men of experience before going farther into 60 important a matter. Increase of Representation. Mr. Colenso obtained leave to defer till the last day of the session, the bringing up of the memorial for an increase of representation. Wellington Acts. Mr. FitzG-ebald obtained leave to postpone till that day month the report of the select committee appointed to enquire into the Wellington Acts now in force in the Province. He named that day with the view of allowing the matter to lapse, as it was found that the subject required more time and attention than could be devoted to it this session. Accident to the Sclipse. The council then went into committee of the whole, to enquire into the cause of the late accident to the barque Eclipse. The first witness called was Capt. Elliot, of the barque — all the other witnesses having previously been requested to withdraw. The Chaibman. — Capt. Elliot: will you be good enough to give us as succinct an account as you can of the circumstances attending the going ashore of your vessel. Capt. Elliot asked what was the object of this inquiry. He did not think that the council had any power to summon him to give evidence. The Chatbmajst explained the object of the investigation ; and said that he need scarcely inform Capt. Elliot that the council was perfectly competent to compel him to give evidence. Capt. Elliot had no objection to give evidence ; but did not think he could be compelled to do it. The Chaiemajt. — If you have no objection, there will be no occasion for compulsion. Mr. EitzG-eeald said that by reference to the "Privilege Act" of the General Assembly, it would be found that the council could compel persons to appear before it to give evidence ; under, he believed, a penalty of £20, or imprisonment for 14 days. The examination of the following witnesses was then proceeded with : — Capt. Elliot, the Chief Officer of the Eclipse, Capt. Chaiiton, the Pilot, and Capt. Blair. The evidence, which was voluminous, will be published as a council paper, and will be duly transferred to our columns. Mr. Rhodes, Mr. Colenso, and Mr. Alexander severally made a lew observations at the close of the evidence — uniting in opinion that the grounding of the Eclipse was an accident, and that no blame was attributable to any one. Mr. EitzGerald then moved that the chairman do report progress and ask leave O to sit again tomorrow to consider a resolution that would be brought before the committee on the subject of the investigation. The council then adjourned.