WEDNESDAY, MARCH 14.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume 3, Issue 130, 17 March 1860, Page 3

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 14.

t The Council met pursuant to adjournment. Present, — The Speaker and 8 members. Acres Licensed as Suns. Mr. Colenso, pursuant, to notice, asked the Superintendent for a return shewing the number of acres licensed as runs ; and, also, the amount of rent received from the same. He said that he was not anxious to know the amount of rent, for he knew that already — and there was nothing very pleasing in the knowledge — hut in order that he might be better qualified to speak on the subject of the waste land regulations, which would shortly come before the Council. That was the gist of his motion. Captain Caeteb, seconded the motion, which | was agreed to. Mr. FitzG-eeald laid the required return upon the table ; also, the return asked for in the" following notice on the paper : — • A return of the number of acres not licensed as runs and bona fide the property of the province ; distinguishing also the approximate number of acres of the same which is unsuited for agriculture. Mr. ColejSßO accordingly withdrew his notice. Negative Amendment. Mr. Colenso, pursuant to notice, moved that, I whenever any negative amendment Bhall be made and seconded, upon any motion of which due notice has been given, it shall be in order for tha originator of such prior motion to call upon the mover or seconder (or both) of such negative amendment to shew cause for the same. He believed that although there were already a good number of standing rules, these were not to bo considered as the laws of the Medes and Persians. At the same time he did not wish to alter any of those now existing. Motions either originated, with members themselves or with their constituents; and in most cases, some pains were taken to collect all information on the subject, so as to be prepared with arguments in support of the reasonableness of the motion. Well, a member does so, and is met by an amendment, pronouaeed — - in a few inaudible words, which has at once the effect of extinguishing the motion like a lid on a kettle ; the mover of such amendment having, in all probability, never considered the subject. This was not fair play, and hence the motion, which would make it imperative upon members, upon taking such a course, to give a reason for it. After a pause — Mr. FitzG-eeald would willingly second the motion if he could see that any practical good would result from it ; and was proceeding to speak, when — Dr. Hitchings rose to order. The motion had not been seconded. The Speakee ruled that the member for N"apiep (Mr. FitzGrerald) was in order. He could see nothing in the standing rules to the contrary. Mr. EiTzGrEEAiD continued, and Mr. Coeenso replied, when the matter dropped. Accounts of tlie Province. Mr. EttzGeeald, pursuant to notice, moved for the appointment of a select committee to which the accounts of the receipts and disbursements for the past financial year may be referred, in conformity with the 3rd section of the Audit Acfc ; and that such committee do consist of Messrs. Alexander, Ormond, Tucker, Carter and Rhodes. H e said that this motion was brought forward in consequence of a misunderstanding with reference to one lately brought forward by his colleague the Provincial Auditor for a finance committee to examine the accounts of the Province. The misunderstanding was partly owing to a want of knowledge of the Audit Act, of which there was only one copy in the Province. Indeed at the time, he himself was not aware of a special Act bearing upon the question ; he only knew that such a committee was usually appointed for the purpose of examining the accounts and reporting to the Council. It had been said that Mr. Colenso as Auditor, should not have placed his own name on the committee ; but he had done so to facilitate the work by being on the spot to answer questions and give all information; while the inquiry, in point of fact, was into the accounts of the Treasurer. He was surprised at the opposition that had been shewn to the appointment of this Committee. It was not to be expected that members oould give up a great deal of time to this work, but if they found it to be necessary, they themselves could engage the services, of an accountant — a course, he was sure, which would , be willingly concurred in by the Treasurer and Auditor themselves. The object of the government was that members might satisfy themselves, i and be able to vouch to their constituencies, that I suuh a cheek existed iipon the public money as to render it impossible that any defalcation, or irregularity could take place. Captain Caetee seconded the motion. " Mr. Osmond said that the member for Napier, in having ascribed the opposition to misunderstanding was slightly in error, Such opposition was " based on the fact that the audit was '.differently conducted here to what ,it was in.; Wellington. . 'j and the. "other provinces. ; There, the accounts ; . were examined by the Treasurer before "they 'were, ;'•:'• ; paid, and afterwards auditg(|%^pe^spits ,wag . Ijeld- i .'_:* no political office, nor to.bk^^/p^ : ;ffl"'3?i4i^**»';" ; '-.''v

It was upon that ground he objected — seeing that there was no proper check to the accounts. In consenting to be on the committee, he only did so on the ground that such, committee would have power of itself to appoint auditors. Mr. Cominso, with reference to the remark of the member for "Waipukurau that there was no check upon the accounts, said that, if it was so, he did not know what check was. In his opinion the accounts could not be checked more ; too much check, perhaps, was exercised. The road accounts were "first carefully examined by the paymaster, who wa s responsible for any error ; then certified to by the Provincial Engineer ; then strictly examined by him (Mr. Colenso) ; then handed to the Superintendent for lub signature. The other accounts were first certified to by heads of departments 5 then examined by him ; then signed by the Superintendent; then forwarded to the Treasurer, who in turn examined them, All the vouchers then came back to him (Mr. Colenso) by whom they were again gone through to see that no more had been paid than the sum authorised. On every account there were from 4to 6 checks. He would refer to a remark made on Friday by his colleague (Dr. Hitchings) to the effect that had he (Dr. H.) been in his (Mr. C.'s) place, he would not only not offer opposition to the appointment of auditors, but would be first to throw open his accounts to them. Ab if he (Mr. Colenso) had sought on any occasion to hinder the full examination of the accounts. He liad certainly said that if such accounts were to be examined by some person or persons out of doors, and found to be correct, he would throw up his pffice. His meaning was, not that he wished to obstruct the auditing of the accounts, but that, he could not take public money as auditor, while Others were paid for performing the duties appertaining to that office. Mr. FitzGebald, in reply, said that the select ■committee could not appoint auditors, but certainly could, if nftfc satisfied with the accounts, employ some competent person as accountant. He was sorry to see so much misconception as to tho auditing of the accounts. The system of audit was infinitely better here than in "Wellington. In the latter it was a mere form ; for, long after the money had been paid, the accounts in a mass were audited in an off-hand manner — the process occupying but a few hours. Here, they were examined at onee — in detail ; and payment was stopped if anything was found to be wrong t— a very different thing from seeking to recover money after it had been paid away in error. The *only real question that had arisen was as regards •the auditor having a Beat in the council ; but he '(Mr. F.) could not understand how this should be an objection. As a member of that council the auditor was much more independent of the government than if he simply held a paid office under it. The motion was then agreed to. Estimates. Mr. FitzGebaid said that he held the estimates in his hand ; but as there was yet but one copy, he would ask for one day longer to have others prepared. _ Local Improvements Bill. ~ 7 jsie Council then went into committee on this Bill. Mr. Osmond moved as an amendment that the words " any town, village, or other portion of the province," be altered to "Towns of the Pro--yince." Mr. FitzGebald protested against the same •privilege being denied to the inhabitants of Havelpok or Hadley. Mr. Ormond said that the word " village" was :an objectionable term, as being a very inadequate one. It might apply to two or three houses anywhere, Mr. Rhodes said that the country would derive great benefit from the Bill, as bad neighbours, of whom he was glad to say there were not many, •would have to pay their quota. It would be a great protection to country settlers. The amendment of Mr. Ormond was put and negatived. On the motion of Mr. FitzGerald the aggregate frontage to be held by persons applying that the Act should be enforced was fixed at onehalf. The discussion was then taken upon the second 'clause, in which a blank was left for the maximum rates to be levied. Mr. Fitz-Geeald said that the rate for the City of Auckland was 2s. 6d., and less in proportion for other localities. He would suggest Is. 6d. as the rate for Napier. Mr. Cttrling aeked the meaning of the expression " lying adjacent to." It might mean either lor 10 miles. Such loose expressions might lead to much future litigation. Mr. Colenso 3aid that 40 persons having \ acre ■ sections abutting on a road might coerce by numbers the proprietor of a back 5 acre section, who might derive no benefit from the road. He in- ! stanced the case of Carlyle-street, at the back of j the line of frontages to which his own property lay. Mr. Rhodes perfectly understood that only persons having frontages to the road requiring repairs should be liable to the rate. He could not otherwise give his adhesion to the bill. Mr. FitzGerald would suggest the re-com-mittal of the first clause, in order that the words " all lands lying adjacent to" might be expunged 5 and he was also of opinion that the rates should only be payable by owners of frontages. After a long discussion in which many difficulties were raised and made the subject of desultory debate, the remaining clauses were passed projbrma, with the following maximum rates filled in I— Town of Napier and Scinde Island, Is. 6cL per foot; Is. for suburban lands, and 3d. for country. The object of this was that, upon the .-■' third reading of the bill, it might be re-committed - and the.first clause titered, whUe more time would "meanwhile be afforded for considering the sue- ; ceeding ones. - .;" •-, " . Census Mil. ; , This bill was read a third time and passed; , after which the council adjourned. JSf '?¥'>■ C -^^TPSDAIy'MARCH Iff, 10 '?$$$ ■ ■A*Coixacil; mefc pursuant to adjournment. 8 intemWaf, > .- ■ : i' ■ "' ■

J'oisonfor Dogs. Mr. Colenso, pursuant to notice, moved, — " To enquire into the present state of the Colonial or Provincial law respecting the laying of poison for dogs &c, on streets and roads. And, in case it shall be found that there is no legal check to the same, to move a resolution that it be made unlawful to lay such poison within yards of any street or road." He cited several instances in which valuable dogs, both in country and town, had been lost through poison having been laid on the ground — also one in which, from the 6ame cause, some native children nearly lost their lives at Ngawakatatara. The cases in town were of recent occurrence — it being only the other day that several valuable dogs were found dead in Shakespeare road. He did not know the state of the law on this point ; but while, if there was a law authorising this, he hoped it would be made effectual in the back runs to the destruction of native curs and dogs running wild; he' hoped, whether or not, that poison would not be laid within a certain distance of any road or street, and that the council would pass an enactment to this effect. The motion was not seconded, but still (contrarary to all precedent) the discussion upon it was proceeded with. Mr. Curling- believed that the law in force was the old New South Wales Act; and, speaking from recollection, poison could not, under its provisions, be laid within 60 yards of any public road. He wished the member for Napier was a sheep farmer ; he would have more sympathy with them. No sheep holder in the country had escaped the ravages of dogs ; and there was no other remedy but poison. Dogs were brought into the country to a reckless extent. Dr. Hitchings said that, to borrow a phrase from his colleague, the shoe pinched in his case. He had occasion to be out at all hours, and was constantly annoyed by a parcel of curs running about the streets. He had often threatened to use poison, and would be obliged to do so for his protection, whatever the state of the law, so long as the dog nuisance was the intolerable one it was at present. Mr; Tucker suggested that the subject should be deferred till they knew precisely how the law stood on the subject. He quite concurred with Mr. Colenso as to the danger attending the use of poison, and did not think that he had shewn any want of sympathy with the runholder. The subject was then dropped. Estimates. Mr. FitzGerald laid the estimates on the table and moved that they be printed. — Agreed to. The Council then went into committee on the Local Improvements Act. On the motion of Mr. FitzGerald the words " lying adjacent to, or" were expanged. Mr. Ormokd moved that the words " Towns within the Province," be substituted for " Towns, Tillages, and other parts of the Province," ..He really thought that as the country members did not want this Act, the town members, who did want it, should allow it to be confined to themselves. Mr. Fitz Gerald would sooner see the whole Act all struck out than see any part of the Province deprived of its operation. He conld very well foresee that, without some such measure, strong cases would constantly be made out for grants in aid, which the executive would feel great difficulty in refusing. He could not think of depriving the country members of those advantages which they seemed so very willing to confer upon the town ; and if the country members did not wish for the powers proposed to be conferred by this bill, one or other of them would do well to move that it be read this day six months. In that case the town's people would come in for a fair share of the public expenditure. Mr, Orhond's amendment was then put and negatived. Several verbal emendations were then made in clause 1, after wbich the chairman put the question that this clause do stand part of the bill. Mr. Orhond moved as an amendment that the whole of clause Ibe expunged from the Act. On the amendment being out, the committee divided as follows : — Ayes. — Messrs. Riddell, Ormond, Curling Hitchings — 4. Noes. — Messrs. FitzGerald, Carter, Rhodes, Colenso — 4. The Chairman gave his casting vote for the amendment, which, was accordingly carried. A formal motion was then made by Mr. Rhodes that the remaining clauses be read that day six months, which was agreed to, and the chairman reported progress. The council then adjourned.