WAS THIRD MAN IN CAB?

Grey River Argus, 30 April 1938, Page 7

WAS THIRD MAN IN CAB?

RATANA RAIL INQUIRY Question yet to be Solved [Per Press Association.) WELLINGTON, April 29. At the Ratana railway accident enquiry, a senior loco driver, Richard Henry Tripp, of Wellington, said he had 35 years’ service. If assigned to ia run any portion of which he was not sure about, he would draw the foreman’s attention to it, and ask tor a pilot. He remembered the nightexpress service operating between Wellington and New Plymouth, for a short time in 1930. Witness took the express as far as Wanganui once a week. On his first trip he was not familiar with the track from Marton to Wanganui, and was provided with a pilot. The electric headlights now in use were very good. With the electric headlight he had no difficulty in picking up the curve and speedboards. He had encountered fogs from time to time. If the fog was too thick a driver should either slow down or stop. He considered speedometers unnecessary on locomotives. He had never experienced any difficulty with the position of speedboards. _ . . + Cross-examined by Mr Foote, witness said he would not consider a speed of five miles an hour above the maximum allowed excessive, provided the road was good, and he was familiar with it. Any speed above that would be gross disregard of the working time-table. He had never heard of a feeling among drivers that the driver was made the scapegoat after an accident. The Chairman: Did you ever have to slow down or stop because of fog on the Marton-Wanganui section . Witness: There were times when I had to slow down; but I never had to stop. The worst part was between Okoia and Aramoho. How did you find the Ratana flats. —l’ve seen fogs there, but not as thick as other places. Have vou ever had fog on the Ratana flat so thick that you could not see the curve or speed-boards .— I’ve never seen fog so thick as to prevent me from, seeing the boards at a distance of not less than 20 yards. Cross-examined by Mr Watson, witness said Percival, driver of W4, was on the same express roster. Mr Watson: He, too, occasionally drove the night train to Wanganui in 1930 ?—Yes. , „ He had not been over the run since? —No, I don’t think he had. Does a driver not have to exceed the speed sometimes ? —No, not necessarily. , What if the Limited leaves Palmerston North 25 -.minutes late, and arrives at Wellington .on time ?—The schedules are not made out on maximum speeds in the first place. Have you ever had notes in the tablet sling, asking you to speed up a bit ?—I have had it sometimes, asking me to step on it when Train Con-| trol wants to make a crossing; but I j don’t take any notice of that sort of. thing. That does not give me auth-, ority to exceed the speed limits, and I’m not expected to. I Have you ever ■ heard complaints made by drivers that they have been allotted to unfamiliar runs at night ? _I have never heard a case, of a driver going out on a run he did not want. , , , Mr F. W. Furkert <a member of the Board): A driver is not forced to 'go on ? | Witness: I have never heard of that .being done. Mr Watson: Are you not aware that as recently as last March the Engine(drivers’, Firemen’s, and Cleaners’ Association made representations to the Department about drivers being puton strange routes ? I Witness: No. I have never heard of it. . , . I James Charles Jones, senior driver, 'said he had 34 years’ service. On (March 23, three days before the accident he was on the Napier Express, and drove AB 829 from Wellington to i Palmerston North and back. He noticed that the draw-bar between the tender and the locomotive required shortening. It did not affect the safety of the run; but witness reported the matter on his return to the depot, and asked for another engine for the following day. He did not have AB 82'9 again after March 23. I When first asked in 1930 if he knew ■the road from Marton to Wanganui, he replied in the negative, and before going on the night express travelled over the route in daylight on a locoI motive. On his first trip with the express he was given a pilot from Mar- ; ton to Wanganui. He never had any 1 difficulty in judging speed. He would Irather be without a speedometer. He never had occasion to complain about , 1 inadequacy, or the position of cupve and radius boards. I Cross-examined by Mr Watson, wit- ’ | ness described the behaviour of AB 1 829 on March 23, when he reported ''that the draw gear required repairs. Over a speed of 30 miles an hour , | there was up and down vibration, and I the engine did not ride so smoothly He was satisfied that the trouble was [not due to the weight of the engine . shifting. ‘ . Mr Watson: Is it not possible, in view of the engine having done approximately 60,000 miles since its lasi general overhaul, that the weighl \ might have shifted from the leading j bogies to the driving wheels ? Witness: No. It did not happen ir

this case. Silberg Everest Gamby, road fore man, of Auckland, said he was acting assistant locomotive foreman at Wei lington until March 31. When a Wellington part of his duty was t.< Look on engine crews. On March 21 be received a train advice concernim |W4, the excursion train. He lookei lover the men available, and suitabl for the job, and picked on Perciva (Percival made no mention of th track. He was one of seven on th No. 1 roster. These men were re garded as the top grade men of th depot. He made no demur. Witness added that he had know Percival for 10 years. He wa: selected for the trip because he wa a top-roster man, used to runnin this particular type of train and er gine, and in every way a good, rel able man.- He also knew that Pei cival had been on the night expref trains on the Marton-Wanganui sei tion in 1930. He was under the in I pression that Percival had been c week-end excursions to Wanganu but had no proof. Had he asked, for pilot there would have been no hes

tation in providing one from Palmerston North. Marton or Wanganui. Percival would be quite aware of the fact SUGGESTED EVIDENCE. LATER. At the Ratana inquiry to-day, Sir F Frazer mentioned that a letter had been received from a resident of Paraparaumu, giving the names of two people who might be able to gite valuable evidence concerning the actual time of the derailment The letter would be passed on to the seo retary of the Board, so that he could communicate with the people mentioned in the letter. Continuing his evidence, SUberg Everest Gamby said the. engine was in first-class order. Percival had driven it quite a lot. He had 24 hours off duty before coming on on Friday, March 25. Witness said he had driven with speedometers. Personally, he did not need them to know what speed an engine was doing. The present engine headlights were very good indeed. When a driver was employed on a run regularly, he had no need to look at his working timetable. If he were put on a run, portion of which, although he might be acquainted with it, he did not cover regularly, he would look up the timetable to freshen his memory. The right was reserved to Mr Watson to cross-examine Gamby at a later stage, if necessary. The difficulty was, he said, that Gamby spoke of conversations with Percival two or three days before the derailment. It might be that, when Percival was able to give evidence, his account ot events might give a different, version of some matters. Sir F. Frazer agreed that the best course to adopt would be that, when the Board was sitting at Wanganui, any of the witnesses whose evidence should be contradicted could be made available again.

MAN WHO ’PHONED THE NEWS.

QUESTION OF THIRD MAN ON LOCO.

WELLINGTON, April 29. At the railway accident inquiry, G J Mullins, Wellington Tramway Conductor, said he had been requested by the Board to come forward He was a passenger on the train with his wife They occupied seats in the fifth carriage. The last station he remembered before the accident was Marton, where the train stopped. He remembered that, at one station afterwards, which he now knew was Turakina, the train passed another. He was awake. He did not notice the tram ascending the grade after Passing Turakina. At 2.10 a.m, he looked at his watch. He was trying to figure out, with the aid of the timetable, what time the train would be at Aramoho. The train seemed to be travelling at a normal speed, lhe train on which they came back did not appear to travel any faster. The speed appeared to be 25 to 30 miles an hour. It might be a shade more or less. The first of -anything of an untoward nature he noticed was some blasts of the whistle, and then the screeching of brakes. Their carriage appeared to be running over the sleepers. His wife asked what had happened, and he told her to sit tight. In a few seconds, the carriage came to a standstill. When the train stopped, he had wanted to get out, but he found the rear door would not open, Lhe door had to be forced by people in the sixth carriage. Eventually, he got out, and saw what had happened. Then he returned to the carriage, telling the womenfolk not to be alarmed as they were quite safe. Subsequently, after attending to his wife, he went outside and assisted the injured. He did not look at his watch. It was left in his coat pocket in the carriage. It was dark and clear, with no sign of fog, but at daybreak there was a light tog, lying rather low. He thought that, roughly, twenty minutes elapsed between the first sensation he i had of the accident and the time that he communicated, by the track telephone, with the railway officials at Wanganui, telling them of the disaster. To Sir F. Frazer, he said it only seemed a matter of a few seconds between the time he saw his watch, showing 2.10, and the time that the train piled up. It might have been a few minutes. He had read of the alleged presence of a third man in the engine cab. He did not see a man in dungarees answering to the description given by Winstone. The only man he saw with one shoe on was a passenger, who had broken toes, and was on the bank. This man, he thought, was wearing a blue suit, and a brown gabadine overcoat. He assisted the doctor to attend to him. The only man he saw in dungarees was a man whom he took to be Ken Miller, the fireman. He helped to extricate him from the engine cab, after returning from the telephone. Miller was in such a' bad way that he could not have been going around giving assistance to other people. He rendered first aid to him. Then, he gave him a good strong nip of whisky. Prior to giving the whisky, there was no smell of alcohol. He had heard rumours that the crew had had drink, and he wanted to make the point clear that it was he who gave Miller the whisky. He made Miller comfortable. He then went to the telephone again, and he spoke to Mr Hare about ambulances. To his surprise, when the ambulances arrived, they were not accompanied by doctors and nurses. He mentioned to the ambulance drivers that he did not know how they Were going to get to the scene, but one of them said that he knew the country well, so they proceeded over paddocks. To Mr Furkett, witness said that he saw the guard before he went to the telephone, and to Mr O’Leary he said that the guard came from the direction of the van. He had heard a man say, at one stage: “Don’t worry about me I I’m not supposed to be here.” He did not hear nim say that he was booked off, or had knocked off at Marton, or at any other place. The remarks he heard were, after he came back from the ’phone. It was Miller who made the remarks, and they were not addressed to anyone in particular. When he was taking the man out of the engine cab, he thought at the time that it was the driver or the fireman. Witness could not make head or tail of the remarks. . Mr O’Leary: “I suggest, Mr Mullins, that it cotild be made head or tail of if the man were somebody who was not the fireman ?” Witness: “Certainly.” To Sir F. Frazer, witness said that he could not describe the man, his

clothes were in such a terrible mess, and it was dark at the time. He did not hear anyone address a ,jnan as “Mack,” and the man did no’t speak

with a noticeably Scotch accent. No one near seemed to know who the man was. He assisted to extricate the man with the aid of two others, and a remark was passed, “this is the fireman.” Witness did not see the engine driver.

Continuing his evidence, the wit- ( ness Mullins, in answer to Mr Watson, said that the man who made the remark definitely was in the cab of the engine. The other two men who assisted witness, had the man partly out of the cab. The man was badly scalded. He appeared to be in great agony. Lie took the remarks to be ones made by a man who was delir-j ious, and in great agony, and who did not know what he was saying. Mr Watson suggested to the Board, as the result of Mullins’s evidence, that they had probably arrived at the true explanation of the allegation! of there being a third man in\the! engine cab. The remark was that of the delirious fireman. ' Sir Francis Frazer pointed out that a considerable discrepancy was left. Of course, Winstone had said that the man of whom he spoke had walked round assisting other people, after being thrown out. of the cab, until he collapsed at 4 o’clock. Mr Watson said that he probably would address the Board later, on that. At the moment, he suggested that Mullins’s evidence had established the probable explanation of the mystery of the third man. Sir Francis Frazer said Mr Watson /had his assurance that the Board was following up any lead that it could get. He understood that there were one or two pieces of information that had come to hand that morning, which might enable them to trace the mystery a little bit further.

Replying to Mr Watson, Mullins said that if the man described by Winstone had, as Winstone suggested, gone about continuous!?/ amongst passengers helping them, witness would have had ample opportunity of seeing him doing that. He had not seen any such man doing any such thing. At the suggestion of Sir Francis Frazer, Mr Watson asked witness if the man CTTn he had spoken of had a wife and child with him. Witness said that be did not see any man with a wife or child. Francis Alfred Ellis, acting-Locomo-tive Foreman, Wellington, explained the system adopted to ensure that no engine went out that was unsafe in any way. He was satisfied that the system was an adequate safeguard against a defective engine going on the track.

At this stage, to meet the wishes of Counsel, the inquiry was adjourned until Monday.