CLAPHAM CLAIMS THAT ACTIONS WERE NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Gisborne Herald, Volume LXXV, Issue 22622, 27 April 1948, Page 6

CLAPHAM CLAIMS THAT ACTIONS WERE NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL

MANGAKINO TRIBUNAL

(P.A.) HAMILTON, April 26. Questions put to the witness L. V. Clapham should relate to industrial activities and to his otvn actions at Mangakino, and not to what might happen in the event of a war against, the Soviet Union—a war which he hoped would never occur, said Judge Dalglish during the cross-examination of Clapham this morning when the tribunal investigating events leading up to the recent Mangakino strike resumed its inquiry.

John Dalglish is chairman of the tribunal with Mr. F. M. Hanson representing the employers and Mr. W. F Shilton representing the workers. Mr. J. E. Engle is conducting the case for the Works Department and Mr. C. Hair is the advocate for the New Zealand Workers’ Union. “Would Take Six Months’ Research” On .Friday Clapham had been confronted with extracts from Communist theory and asked to state his attitude to them in relation to his own position. Today Clapham said that initially he would like to point out that if he were to give a full explanation of the quotation in relation to the historical conditions under which they were written at the time, it would take six months research and the production of a considerable thesis. As a member of the rank and file of the Communist Party he had not that ability, and as a worker he had not the time to do it. The explanation he had to make was in relation to his activities as a Communist and as a unionist under the rules of the Communist Party at the present time and in the present circumstances in New Zealand. “I believe this tribunal is set up as an industrial tribunal to inquire into an industrial dispute between the Government, on the one hand, and the New

Zealand Workers’ Union supported by the Federation of Labour on the other, witness stated. “The Communist Party is not on trial I am in the box as a witness and as a local elected official of the union and the federation has taken up this case because it is satisfied a trade union principle is at stake and is satisfled also that my actions have been in conformity with the constitution of the union and the principles of the trades union movement.” A clause of rule 5 of the constitution of the New Zealand Communist Party stated that all party members in mass organisations such as a trade union, farmers' organisations and cultural bodies would co-operate to promote and strengthem them, and would abide by their democratic decisions. Rule Clear and Unmistakable “That rule in the constitution of our party is clear and unmistakable, and is firmly adhered to by me as a trade unionist and Communist,” witness added “I was a trade unionist long before I became a Communist. That rule is the principle on which I have always acted.” ... , After Clapham had made his statement Mr. Engel said witness had given no answer to the Question of whethei he subscribed to the extracts read on Friday from a publication of the Communist International in which it was laid down in very precise words the qua’ifications required for membership of the Communist International. “Do you or do you not subscribe to such principles and instructions as are written down in that passage.’ Mr. Engel asked Clapham Mr. Hair protested that the question was irrelevant, observing that while he himself believed in the principles of the political organisation to which be belonged. it would be irrelevant were he in the box instead of Clapham to question him about, for instance, events back in 1919. Mr Engel said the tribunal itself should determine ivhat was relevant and his cross-examination should not be in!er f erred with. Judge Dalglish: How do you regard Clapham’s reply? Do you regard it as an answer to your questions on Friday or as not an answer? Mr. Engel: “I say very definitely it is no answer.

Communist Instructions Mr. Engel read from a publication of the Communist International an extract urging Communists to carry on precise propaganda to persuade workers to refuse to transport war equipment for use against the Soviet republics and asked Clapham: “Do those words mean what they say or don't they.” Judge Dalglish said matters of that, nature were not under consideration just now. Clapham had said his duty as a member of the Communist Party was to abide by democratic decisions of the organisations to which he belonged, and the questions put to him should have a bearing on that. questions unrelated to industrial matters were not helpful to the tribunal. It would be more relevant for Mr. Engel to confine his questions to industrial activities, rather than to what Communists would do in event of a war against Russia. “We are not in a time of war at present. We are not at war with the U.S.S.R. and I hope we never shall we. We are concerned only with Clapham’s activities since Julv of last year,” declared Judge Dalglish. He added that he did not wish to stultify Mr. Engel's cross-examination, but suggested that it might be related back to the “Mangakino Spark” and what had been written there. Mr. Engel: I bow to your ruling on that point. Judge Dalglish said quotations from recent Communist writings, especially in New Zealand, might have a bearing on the matter: “If you can bring forward quotations suggesting 'hat the rule of the Communist Party membership

quoted by Clapham. is not the last word on the subject it would be relevant, but those rules are as amended up to 1946." Further Protests When Mr. Engel asked Clapham his attitude as a Communist to social democracy and to the Government now 'in power, both Clapham and Mr. Hair raised further protests. Judge Dalglish: It is very difficult, but I must say if I were in the box I would not be' too happy to be asked about my political beliefs. To Mr. Engel, Judge Dalglish said: “Do you submit that all workers on public works should be supporters of the Labour Government?” Mr. Engel: No. but I do say they should be loyal to the Government in power just as public nervants must be loyal to the Government of the day. Judge Dalglish: You have a political loyalty and you have a loyalty to your employer. Are you not confusing the two? , , Mr. Hair said the matter had been well defined in a recent resolution of the national executive of the Public Service Association. Mr. Hanson said that the resolution had strongly condemned Communism, but Mr. Haif said it had championed political liberty while condemning subversion and illegal acts. Judge Dalglish said he had noticed what he thought was a tendency to confuse political loyalty and the loyalty of a servant towards his employer. It was the latter loyalty into which the tribunal was inquiring. Mr Engel, to witness: Do you claim any loyalty to your employer? Witness: ‘‘l consider myself loyal to the New Zealand Workers’ Union.

“For Court to Decide” “You refuse to answer the question? Xhat is for the court to decide. There is no question about it in the evidence that has been heard.” Judge Dalglish: Mr. Engel is asking about your loyalty to the Government. Witness: I with a lot of other Communists have spent a lot of our spare time doing everything poraffile for the Labour Party. It is well known in the trade union and Labour movement that we have made every effort to put the Labour Party into power. Mr. Engel: That is what is known as united front tactics. I have asked a question of Clapham as to whether

he is loyal to his present employer, and I have yet to get an answer. Witness: I will say yes. Mr. Engel: In face of the general tone of the “Mangakino Spark” in holding up a Minister and the Prime Minister to ridicule? Clapham: That is a separate activity. It has no relation to the job. "You may see it, but I can't,” commented Mr. Engel, who then referred to a statement, in the ‘‘Mangakino Spark” that a change to communism had been made without bloodshed in certain European countries. “J still cannot see what that has to do with Mangakino," witness replied. “This is getting something like a farce. Every day the population of Mangakino receives daily newspapers. a third of which are devoted to anticommunist propaganda. Once a fortnight a little paper with a distribution of 400 puts forward a different political view. Yet Mr. Angel seems to be trying to give the impression that this little paper is going to have a greater effect on the job than the daily papers and periodicals. I think it points to the weakness of the Government case." £250 Challenge to Mr. Semple Referring to extracts that had been quoted from publications o. the Communist International, witness said the New Zealand Communist Party had offered to pay £250 to the Crippled Children’s Society if Mr. Semple could justify his assertions that the party was affiliated to the Communist International. Mr. Engel: You don’t depart from your original admission that you subscribed to the doctrines of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin. Witness: I have pointed out that my statement supersedes any previous statements so far as policy is con-

cerned, just as Mr. Semple's present policy supersedes what he said in 1913 outside the Town Hall in Auckland. It is true that the New Zealand Communist Pai'ty subscribes to the doctrines of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin, but they would not subscribe to every isolated quotation that was made by you. Mr. Engel referred to a circular issued in March by the national executive of the New Zealand Communist Party in which it was stated that the party was based on scientific principles given by the greatest leaders and teachers of mankind Marx, Engels, Leniri and StalinGuide to Action, Not Dogma Witness agreed that that was published. He added that Lenin had stated that Marxism was a guide to action and not a dogma. Clapham gaid he was present at the strike ballot' at Mangakino but he did not address the men except to explain how to queue for cubicles. No approach had been made to him concerning the alleged irregularities, and he had not heard of any representations for another meeting. The nearest incident was an inquiry by two men as to the number of men required by the rules to call a special meeting. To Mr. Hanson, witness said he was very strongly in favour of production councils, and he agreed that an engineering project could not function without engineers. They would have to have full command of the technical side. The most effective way of secur-

ing progress on the job was by obtaining the maximum co-operation. This was a question of' degree rather than

a change in principle. Mr. Hanson said the engineers fought for the men at least as much as did the trade unions. The engineers did not want power. They merely wanted the right to organise and administer their job in the manner necessary to ensure efficiency. Cannot be Run by Committees “We have not yet got to a stage where you can run an engineering job by committees,” said Mr. Hanson. Clapham was asked questions by Mr. Hanson as to his war service, and whether he thought his being a returned soldier had been a factor in his reengagement on public works. Clapham said he thought the circumstances of his return to civilian life had been normal. He thought war service counted for less on public works jobs than elsewhere. To another question, Clapham said that as an Army corporal he would have been unconcerned if a soldier in his section had criticised his leadership to a security officer. Mr. Hanson: You suggested in Perth on your way back that the British tried to create incidents in Trieste. Do you know that the Yugoslavs were creating incidents nearly every day? Clapham: I cannot see what that question has to do with this case. Mr. Hair: Nor can I. Mr. Hanson said his question had a bearing on the whole background of the case. Clapham agreed with Mr. Hanson that the New Zealanders in_ Trieste had shown wonderful restraint and forebearing. He did not agree that his comrades of the 27th Battalion would think him mean and disloyal to them because of his comments In Perth. The attitude of many New Zealanders in Trieste had been one of “What is General Alexander trying to jack us into now the war is over?” To a suggestion from Mr. Hanson that the slogan of “the wreckers” on public works job might be “wreck, disorganise and liquidate,” witness replied, "You and I might have entirely different ideas as to who the wreckers are.” Clapham Good Worker Henry McNamara, head tunncller, of Mangakino, said he personally had opposed a seven-day roster system. He considered it would have been one of the biggest steps backward ever taken by the workers. He had found Clapham as good a worker as any in his gang. Clapham was proud to be a Communist. Witness was proud to be a member of the Labour Party. iYi a moment of warmth over a- political difference he might have made a remark about not having Clapham back in his gang, but in fact he was quite ready to have him back. He had asked Clapham to rejoin his gang, but Clapham had declined. “I would offer him ’the job again tomorrow,” said witness, who corroborated Clapham’s statement that he had not authorised the publication in the Rotorua newspaper of facts about Mangakino. To Mr. Engel, witness said he thought the objection to the seven-day rosier system for tunnellers was unanimous when the matter was last put to the rank and file on the job. The cross-examination had not been completed at the luncheon adjournment.