PARLIAMENT Use Of Ministerial Cars Discussed At Length In House

Greymouth Evening Star, 24 September 1949, Page 3

PARLIAMENT Use Of Ministerial Cars Discussed At Length In House

WELLINGTON, Sept 23 (P.A.).— The House of Representatives this afternoon discussed the vote on the estimates for the Department of Internal Affairs.

Mr W. S. Goosman (Oppn. Piako) made an allegation that there was abuse of motor vehicles by Cabinet Ministers and their private secretaries, when referring to the item of £17,500 for the travelling expenses of the Cabinet Ministers and their waves, and £9OOO for private secretaries of the Ministers, included in the vote.

He said that at a recent meeting of the Public Accounts Committee it had been asked that complete car hire dockets for the month of May be laid before it. The dockets had been presented. They were not complete. He considered it was a breach of faith on the part of the Minister in charge of the Department, Mr W. E. Parry, in not supplying all dockets after he had agreed to do .so. He (the speaker) had pointed out to the chairman of the committee that some dockets were missing. Nothing had been done about it.

For the year 1938-39 expenses of the Ministers and the Ministerial secretaries for car hire, air, rail, and steamer travel, and rooms and tips amounted to £8366. Expenses had increased, by 1948-49 to £27,798. Not to produce dockets for the month of May as agreed was a breach of faith, treating the Public Accounts Committee with contempt. The committee sought an explanation of the accounts to combat rumours that use of cars was being abused. In absence of dockets it must be assumed there was something in the rumours. There were stories circulating that Ministers’ cars were being used to take children to school and to do shopping. One Minister and his secretary had had 120 calls for the months of May. He considered that the use of cars called for inquiry.

Mr Nash’s Views The Minister of Finance, Mr Nash, said that he wondered if there was anything that was too trivial for the Opposition to bring up. He, himself, would probably have 120 calls lor a car in a month, and he probably used a car less than the other Ministers. The car came to bring him to his office at 8.30 each morning, and took him home whenever he was ready—perhaps the next morning! Was that objected to? Opposition voices: No. Mr Nash said that that itself made sixty calls a month, and, with the other calls in Wellington, he might use the car 100 or 120 times monthly, was that objected to? Opposition voices: No. Mr Nash said that he agreed that the Public Accounts Committee should get all the information that it wanted.

The Minister said that if any member thought that something was wrong, he had the duty to say so, .and to seek to have it put right. But the wisest thing, in this case, would have been to wait until all oi the dockets came to hand. . Mr C. M. Bowden (Oppn., Karon) said that Ministers were entitled to arrive at any engagement properly, as befitted the country’s dignity, and so were their wives. There were widespread rumours that cars were being used for shopping expeditions and to take children to school. He had been told that in one house 95 calls were made in a month, mainly for shopping trips. The Minister of Labour, Mr A. McLagan, said that the Opposition had tried to create a mystery. In his own case, his private secretary had been asked, only after lunch today, for the first time for the May car dockets, and the secretary had been on the point of posting them to the Department of Internal Affairs. “Here are the dockets,” said Mr McLagan, flourishing the envelope, which he tossed across the floor of the House towards the Opposition benches. “If anyone wants them, let them go through them and see what they can find. Members opposite complain of being treated with contempt. That treatment may not be inappropriate.” Two Ministers Out Shooting Mr G. H. Mackley (Opposition, Wairarapa) said that on May 16, two days after the opening of the shooting season, two Ministers were in a certain place, and there was a docket for a car taking ducks and geese in a hamper to various addresses. Teat went near to playing ducks ana drakes with the country's finances. Quoting from dockets, he said that on another occasion a Ministerial car picked up two men from different addresses and took them to the races. While a Minister was in the South Island cars were used in his name on frequent occasions in Wellington on various dates in May. It seemed a notorious fact that in Wellington cars were being improperly used by some Ministers’ families. Mr H. E. Combs (Government, Onslow) said that when his attention was brought to the fact that not all the car dockets had come before the committee, he took steps to get the remainder, and he intended to present them to the next meeting on Wednesday next. There had been no intention of withholding any document. The Postmaster-General, Mr r. Hackett, said that the position about the dockets could readily be clarified. The dockets held by the Ministers secretaries in their offices were duplicates. The original dockets were all in one place, and, if they had been asked for, he could have arranged with the department to produce them in Parliament Buildings in five minutes. As for the duplicates, some of the Ministers’ secretaries retained them Others returned them to the Department of Internal Affairs. The latter department, when asked for the May dockets, had produced what duplicates it had, and the department thought that was the whole lot. The Prime Minister, Mr P. Fraser, said that the members of the Opposition were pretty hard up when they made all sorts of personal attacks. Mr Fraser added: “I have just come from a function at the Brooklyn school in a car. Is that wrong?” Opposition members: No. Mr Fraser: If I am not able to go and I send a member of my family, should they not go by car? Mr Fraser added he had driven m Government cars with previous Ministers to the theatre and to football matches. It was looked on as a prerogative of the Ministers. Mr Mackley: Not to do the shopping. Mr Fraser: If I have to make a purchase in the city, it is suggested that I should walk! ‘ Mr Fraser said that he did not want to introduce any personal matter, .but his late wife had been remonstrated with by women’s organisations, for not using a car. The Prime Minister said that he had

offered to place a car at the disposal of the Leader of the Opposition. Opposition voice: He hires his own car. After further discussion. Mr W. S. Goosman (Opposition, Piako), moved that the vote be reduced by £5 as an indication that a complete investigation should be carried out and a report made on the use of Government cars by the Cabinet Ministers and the under secretaries. A lively and sometimes heated discussion continued until 5.55 p.m. Then Mr Fraser moved the closure. The Opposition called for a division. After a checking and rechecking of the votes, the Prime Minister’s motion was declared defeated by 33 votes to 32.

During the checking of the division lists, Mr A. S. Sutherland (Opposition, Hauraki) said: “This is where a photofinish would come in.” It was discovered that there had been confusion about nairs. The junior Government whip said that he had arranged six pairs with the Opposition. The Opposition voting strength could therefore not be more than "32, out of their total of 38 members. The Leader of the Opposition, Mr Holland, said that, anxious as he was to carry a vote against the Government, the last thing he desired was to do so on a misunderstanding. On Mr Holland’s suggestion, the position was clarified by putting the motion.

When the division was called for on Mr Gcosman’s amendment, it was defeated by 33 votes to 31.

Voted Inadvertently I Mr W. J. Broadfoot (Opposition, Waitomo) later explained that he had granted a pair to Mr A. G. Osborne (Government, Onehunga) who had leave of absence owing to the illness of his mother. He (Mr Broadfoot) had forgotten to tell Mrs Ross (Opposition, Hamilton) that he had paired her with Mr Osborne. Mrs Ross had, therefore, inadertently voted. Mr Holland turned to Mrs Ross, who was sittting in the bench next to him, and slapped her, gallantly, on the wrist, to the amusement of the House. Mrs Ross: Always blame the woman! The members’ good humour, which had been strained throughout the afternoon, was restored. The House rose at 6.27, until -2.30 p.m. on Tuesday.