FINANCE BILL

Greymouth Evening Star, 25 August 1939, Page 2

FINANCE BILL

DEBATE IN THE HOUSE EOR R O WIN GCO N D E RIN ED. |PEU I'REHS ABHOCIATION.J WELLINGTON. August Before proceeding with the second reading of the Finance Bill and (.and and Income Tax (Annual) Bill. Mr. Fraser suggested that the discussion on both these measures should be taken concurrently. as many matters in the one affected the provisions of the other. Tie. continued that., if the House put through the Finance Bill that night, they would, perhaps, take the Land and Income Tax (Annual) Bill to-morrow. There would be no effort to slop reasonable discussion. Mr. Fraser moved for urgency. The Opposition forced the motion to a division, but it was carried by 41 voles to 22. The voting was on purely party lines. Mr. Fraser then moved the second reading of the Finance Bill, explaining the. provisions of the measure in detail. The Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Hamilton, said that 1 lie House was at somewhat of a disadvantage in discussing the Finance Bill, because of the. absence of both the Minister ol Finance and the Prime Minister. The Government was creating borrowing records, he said, and be outlined Government borrowings from 1935 to 1939. Borrowing was up over £15.000,000 in two years. Where was the Government. going Io get the money from? Then, there was an increase of £13,500.000 <m Public Works expenditure in three years. The Government had two main sources o r revenue, taxation and borrowing. Taxation had been taken to excess and borrowing was now being taken to ultra excess. If the Government wanted to live extravagantly, then it should tax the people to pay for it. That would be a shock to the people. The Government, however, had chosen the borrowing method, thus giving a false idea of prosperity. He asked: What should the correct attitude to the public debt of New Zealand be? It was clear that a large section of the Labour members looked forward to a debt crisis tiiat would give them, the conditions and the opportunities for •which they were looking. He outlined the gradual building up of the public debt over the last 100 years, and said that he could not state too emphatically that a wrong view of the debt question might shake the whole foundation of the Dominion’s economy. Our obligation wore just obligations. For a country to enjoy all of the amenities that our borrowing from the Motherland had made, possible, and now to allow an agitation to be started against those debt obligations was, to put it mildly, unconscionable.

Mr. J. Hargest (Nat.. Awarua), said that one could not help feeling that New Zealand was to-day in the hands of irresponsible gamblers who were controlling the country’s affairs, and that the legislation brought down in the last three years was designed to bring about a purely Socialistic. State. He criticised the Finance Bill and the Public Works expenditure, and speaking of New Zealand’s secondary industries. he said that some of the most reputable manufacturers in New Zealand, with plenty of money, could not get overseas credit. He also criticised the administration of the railways, and said that the load on the taxpayers for the railway services was heavier than it had ever been before. MR SULLIVAN REPLIES. The Minister of Railways, Mr. SulJiVan, replying to Mr. Hargest said that he was sincerely concerned about the manufacturirg industries, and he desired to make them a great, success, but, regarding Mr. Hargest’s criticism concerning the supply of raw materials. the manufacturers knew exactly where they stood, and the overseas supplies knew exactly where they stood too. The House adjourned at 5 p.m. to allow members to attend a meeting of the New Zealand Croup of the Empire Parliamentary Association. When the House resumed Mr. Sullivan. continued the debate on the Finance Bill. He said that the Opposition had given plenty of gratuitous advice, to the workers to increase production, but they had not said a word in condemnation of the people who had sent their money overseas, thus dealing a body blow to New Zealand’s finances. The Minister said that wheatgrowers and millers had generally approved of the Government’s wheat, bread and flour scheme. In conclusion he contended that the Government had done a. good job for the country since it had been returned to office. It had built roads, railways, and bridges, and had generally put the country into business again, after business had been brought to a standstill by the policy of previous Governments.

Mr. W. P. Endean (Nat.. Parnell), said it was regrettable, that the Government was intolerant of criticism, as had been demonstrated by Mr. Sullivan's criticism of Mr. Hardest. Mr. Endean proceeded io criticise the Railways administration, stating that the Minister’s claim that the services given by the railways were greater than the revenue received was absolutely fallacious. No private enterprise. run on the same basis as the railways were being run by the present Government, could hope to exist. Ho said there was not a line in New Zealand that was paying to-day. The net railway earnings since 1936 had dropped by .£300.000. and this was due to economic embarrassment created by rhe Government's present nolicv.

CHALLENGE RY MR. SEMPLE. The- Minister of Public Works.. Mr. Semple, said that he had been ncctised of being the greatest spendthrift in the Government. I'nloss Xcw Zealand could im reuse its production to provide lor increased population, we would have a very sad future. The Minister outlined the work which the Public Works Department was doing in connection with irrign'ion throughout the Dominion t<> enable production to l>e increased. 'l'Jie Leader of the Opposition bad stated that he rihc Minister) should be sfonp.d from spending public money. This was most unfair, said Mr. Sempie. Imcamse every item of. the Estimates was unproved by the House before it could be spout.

“I will undertake to prove." said Mr. Semple, “to any properly constituted tribunal, composed of'engineers

find accountants, that. the Opposition charge that £24.000.00H- per annum is being spent by the Public. Works Department, is untrue. The charge that a portion of the £2-1.000,D00 (£ 12,000,000), which is being spent by the Department, is being squandered, is incorrect and unfounded.”

Mr. Semple added: ”1 am prepared to prove that, in comparison with lhe methods in use when I assumed of-fice-—that. (I) there lias been a saving to the nation of tens of thousands of pounds; (.2) that service has been given, in some cases, in one third of the time; (.”,) that scores of lives have been saved on lite Public. Works constructional jobs and on the highways. Ou the other hand. I am also prepared to prove that during the past, administration of public works, millions of pounds of Public Works money wore squandered, and lives were needlessly lost.”

He continued that if the Opposition could prove their assertions that millions of pounds had been wasted, he was prepared to resign from public life, and to forfeit. £lOO to the Crippled Children’s Fund, conditionally on the. Leader of the Opposition, if he failed to prove his charges, doing likewise. He was prepared, if his challenge were accepted, to hand his resignation to the Speaker with authority that it be accepted, and his seat declared vacant if the charges against his Department and his administration were substantiated. “THIN SKINNED” GOVERNMENT. STr. A. E. .lull (Nat.. Waipawa) said that the Minister of Public Works had made quite a good speech. (Opposition laughter). He did not. suppose that there had ever been a Government in the history of this country which was so thin-skinned. The Minister of Public Works should he more moderate in his language. He gave Ute Minister full credit for being one of the most active Ministers who had ever occupied that position, and of attempting to save large sums of money in the work of his Department. He appreciated quite a. lot of the work that Mr. Semple had done, but the Minister had talked of saving hundreds of thousands by the use of machinery as compared with hand work. Who would attempt to do that work by hand? No one would. So there had been no saving. Mr. .1. A. Lee (Govt. Grey Lynn) defended the State Housing programme. He said that there were inferior houses built by past Governments that, had cost more. He did not condemn the houses built in the past, because they were needed, and the Government of the day had done a good ' job in providing them; but the Opposition should admit, that the times had advanced, and the type of house being built was in keeping with present requirements.

Mr. S. G. Holland (Nat. Christchurch North) said the Government had justified its expenditure because of the increase, in the national income. While this had been true, the Government had overlooked the fact that income was now falling rapidly, and taxation next, year must increase still further. Mi - . A. S. Richards (Govt.. Roskill): Where would you economise? Mr. Holland: Speaking off my own bat. the first thing I would do would be to reduce lhe size of Parliament. 1 would also spread the Public Works expenditure over a longer period than is provided for in this Bill. The debate was continued by Messrs Richards. G. Bodkin. Broadfoot. Morgan. Williams and Coates. BILL READ SECOND TIME. At. 2.22 a.m., the Bill was somewhat, unexpectedly read a second time, without a reply from the Acting-Lead-er of the House, Mr. Fraser, who was momentarily out of the Chamber.

The second reading of the Land and Income Tax (annual) Bill was then formally moved, in Mr. Fraser’s absence. by Mr. Sullivan. After a few minutes’ debate, in which Mr. Fraser returned and stated that he would answer various points raised on the Finance Bill in the committee stage, the Bill was read a second time.

Mr. Fraser stated that it was hoped to get both Bills through remaining stages, to-day. so that the Legislative Council could deal with them to-night or to-morrow morning. The House adjourned at 2.30 a.m. until 11.30 a.m. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The Legislative Council met at 2.30. The Property Law Amendment Bill and the Land Transfer Amendment Eill were each read a first time and a second time pro forma, and were referred to the Statutes Revision Committee.

The Leader of the Council, Mr Wilson. said the Committee 'would cout Sider the Bills on August ‘!(>, so that interested parties could ’make representations regarding the proposed restrictions on the licensing of land brokers in the Land Transfer Bill. Mr V. A. Ward (Wellington; recommended the Government to set up a Parliamentary Committee to investigate the sale of patent medicines and appliances. Mr B. Martin (Auckland) said that a case had’ been made out for an investigation, and be considered that the motion should also take in adulterated foodstuffs and shoddy clothing and footwear.

The Leader of the Council. Mr Wilson, congratulated Mr Ward on bringing the matter before the Council. ami said that investigations had shown that, patent medicines were, sole al 70tj and 800 per cent, profit. Snch. profits wore improper, even if the medicines were of v;. hm in 111ni'ss. As fat- as the advertising of patent, medicines by the Commercial b‘i < ttdettst ing Stations was concerned, every endeavour was mad? io s<-e that l.m advertisers did not make extravagant claims, and some an veri ising centrads had been refused, because I.lm articles had been proved useless. Alter Mr Ward had i. • r,! i • i. the motion was carried. I' ; LIA AI EXT A If Y A S S 0 (T. \ T 1() X. Routine business was transacted at the annual meeting of the New Zea-i

land Branch of the Ernpi.i Parliamentary Association to-day. The following oflicers were elected: —Presidents: The Speaker of the Legislative Council, Mr Mark Fagan, and the Speaker of the House, Mr W. E. Barnard; vice-presidents: The Prime Minister (Mr IVI. J. Savage). Leader of the Opposition (Mr A. Hamilton), the Leader of the Legislative Council (Mr 1). Wilson.), Mr G. W. Forbes, Mr G. Coates, and Sir James Allen; lion treasurer. Sir Heaton Rhodes; hen auditors, Messrs W. J. Lyon and W. Perry; hon. secretary, Die Clerk of Parliaments (Mr ('. M. IJoihamley); executive committee: The Minister of Finance (Mr W. Nash), Minister of Education (Mr P. Fraser), the Chairman of Committees (Mr R. McKeen), Messrs A. Ransom, C. M. Wilkinson, S. G. Holland, J. Cotter, J A. Hanan, W. 11. Mclntyre and B. Mai tin. TO-DAY’S PROCEEDINGS. ECONOMIC DIFFJCULTIES. WELLINGTON, August 25. The House met at 11.30 a.in. One day’s leave of absence was granted to Mr. Paikea, on account of urgent public business, and live days to Mr. Tirikatene, on account, of sickness in his family. The Lower Clutha River Improvement. Amendment Bills, Nos. 2 and 3 (Mr. Roy > were read a first Lime, and referred to the Local Bills Committee. The Alsation Dog Bill was introduced from the Legislative Council Mr. Morgan Williams, who is in charge of' the measure, intimated that be proposed to ask for the second reading of the Bill on September 6. The Bill was accordingly read a first time, and set down for the second reading on that date. Urgency was granted to the passing of the Finance Bill and the Land and Income Tax (Annual) Bill, and the House immediately went into committee on these measures.

In the committee stages of the Finance Bill, the Acting-Leader of the House, Mr. Fraser, said that nothing would be gained by a resumption of the Budget debate on the. second reading, but he did think the position should be clarified. The Government required the money provided for in the Bill, and, if it did not receive it, nothing but disaster faced thousands of families in the Country. That would not be allowed to happen. The people of the country would be safeguarded so far as human endeavour provided, and would not again be subjected to the conditions of the slump years.

Mr. Fraser said it had to be admitted that certain economic difficulties had arisen, but they were inevitable in the first stage of the restoration of the finances of the country. There was a limit to what could be spent on public, works, and that was stated in the Budget. The whole reason for the increased loan authority was that it would be disastrous to stop works that, had been commenced. The problem facing the Government- was how to direct employment to productive industries. Mr. Cobbe said there -was no doubt, what was coming, and to a certain extent it had arrived. This was evidenced by the increased note circulation. He urged the Government, to reconsider its taxation proposals, which, he said, would create hardship on almost every section of the- community.

Mr. Hargest said that the proposed expenditure for housing and hydroelectricity would be largely reproductive, but the borrowing of £18,200,000 for public works would not be in the best interests of employment, since a great deal of the money spent on the purchase of machinery and petrol would go to pay the- overseas sellers. The debate in committee on the short title was continued by Messrs Dickie. Barclay, Bodkin. Robertson, and Broadfoot, and the House adjourned for lunch at 1 p.m.