EVANGELICAL CHURCHES

Evening Star, Issue 14573, 23 May 1911, Page 7

EVANGELICAL CHURCHES

>■■ AND SENIOR CADETS. PROPOSED SECTARIAN CORPo. DENOMINATIONALISM DISAPPROVED. There was an attendance of about twent; members at the quarterly meeting of th Council of Churches, held at the Mora; Place Congregational Church buildings las night, tha Rev. G. Knowles Smith presid Ing. The Chairman announced that ho ha< received a letter from Lieutenant Thorns inspector of senior cadets. It 6tated tha he was instructed to inform the Counci of Churches that the Defence Departmen was anxious to co-operate with the variou: social bodies, such as schools and churches in the formation of companies of 6enio cadets (for youths of between fourteen anc eighteen years), each to consist of 120 sue! lads and two or three commissioned offi cers. The authorities wished to receivi nominations of officers, who would have t< attend schools of instruction and pass thi necessary qualifying examination. On pass ing this, these officers would be allowed, ai far as possible, to select the lads to forn their companies. The Defence Depart ment would try to arrange that the train ing of these companies would conform a; much as possible with the arrangements o the institutions with which they were con nected. The commissions held by the offi cers would be of equal 6tatus with thos< in the Territorial units, and would not in volve their holders in. any expense. Th< officers would have to submit themselvet to strict military discipline. A letter ot somewhat similar import was read from Commander Jones, of the 803 Scouts. The Chairman said that he had also had an interview with Lieutenant Thorns, who gave reasons for the desire of the Defence authorities for the assistance oi the churches in this new movement. The authorities wished to secure officers who, by their known association with Christian churches, would be men of a moral standard and character, to make worthy leaders and able to mould the character of those under their jurisdiction. "I told him,' continued the chairman, " that personalh my attitude was exactly that of the Societj of Friends. I am absolutely and whole heartedly alien to war in any shape 01 form, and am a member of the British Peace Society. I said that I would !aj the matter before the Executive of the Council. The secretary and I called a meeting of the Executive, and the first matter raised was whether the Council. by taking any action, should endorse the military spirit that seemed to be behind this particular legislation. The Executive came to the conclusion that the law had already passed, and while many of U6 were against the law, and thought it should not have been passed without some reference to the country, if anybody were to blame it was the country itself for allowing the law to go so quietly through Parliament; and that, now that* it had become law, it was not a question of whether we were supporting what is in some sense conscription, for it was absolutely necessary that our boys should enrol themselves. The question therefore was whether denomina-tionali-m should enter into this movement. The Executive thought this was practically impossible. There would be no one church in any particular neighborhood which could -supply the 120 lads to create a company. We thought, therefore, that if the churches of a particular locality, such as North Dunedin—Presbyterian, Methodic, Baptist, and Congregational—were to unite a company might be formed, and we might then nominate officers for it. The Executive issued a circular in order to ascertain the number of boys from the churches who would enrol themselves. The circular can practically be called a failure, because the ministers to whom it was addressed have not replied in anything like adequate number, and we do not know from statistics anything of the true position. In the meantime, discussion arose. Some of our members held very strongly that the churches should not have anything whatever to do with this movement; that they should be quite clear of it in any shape, and should refuse to nominate officers. Others churches have taken the matter up, and have appointed committees to organise denominational corps. That is quite outside our idea. We expected the Roman Catholics and the Anglicans would do it. When we saw other Free Churches making arrangements for these corps we thought it time to call a full meeting of the Council. The Executive have no idea of the churches taking any interest in the formation of corps, or having anything to do with the movement, except the nomination of officers, which we thought a perfectly legitimate work to do. We went on those lines until the proposal to form denominational corps appeared. Then the Executive thought they had better leave the whole matter to the Council." A member ros? and said that the Church should not commit itself on this question, which was a question of politics. The matter restei with individuals. The Chairman suggested that the meeting had better have a resolution placed before it. Rev. W T illiam Saunders thereupon moved—" That this Council express their strong disapproval of the formation of Denominational corps, and cull the attention of the Minister of Defence thereto." The mover said that he most heartily approved of the military training of our youth. He was not a " peace" man in the same sense as the chairman. He was glad we hal such a law on the Statute Book, and wished it were on the Statute Book of the Old Country. It would strengthen both the country and our youth if the latter were trained on military lines. Attention had been called in the ' Star' to the degeneracy of the Maori vouths, and suggesting that they be allowed to enrol themselves and thus be given something better to occupy their time than standing at street corners. But denominationalism in military matters seemed to him to be uncalled for, and he could not understand how the Government came to propose it. It would be most unfair to a great number, for if only denominational companies were to be formed, many of our - boys would be branded as non-churchgoers. The Government had no right to distinguish between churchgoers and non-churchgoers. It was one ot the greatest mistakes the Minister of Defence nad ever made in his political career, if it was he who was responsible for the proposal. The mere recommendation of men of moral worth as officers was quite a different matter. That came within the Churches' province—not, however, as approving of military matters, but simply as seeing that the lads' morals were as far as possible preserved when in camp. In any case, he did not doubt that the officers would have regard for the boys, and would abstain from language or conduct that would be hurtful to them, but the Churches would be doing well to recommend upright and godly men as officers. If the Council of Churches did anything more they would involve themselves in matters with which, as a Council, they had no concern. Rev. W. Slade seconded the motion. He welcomed the movement to train our youth. We were turning out of our schools a great nuirSer of lads who were only half-educated, and who badly wanted licking into shape. It was very much to be regretted that the taint of denominationalism should be brought into, this matter. He had fought it in the schools, and it would be a curse if it gained entry here. We should not have our boys labelled "Presbyterian," "Baptist," etc. Let them be citizens of the country. It was .a mistake to invite the Churches, as Churches, to form companies. He hoped the Council would not recommend the formation of church companies, although they ihould, he thought, recommend young men as officers. Mr S. F. Benton said he thought that the Government would soon repent of the proposal of which the letter waa tie exretion. The churches wuld not have fight the question.' Already a mooting Of tWXm id A fad warped the

• Government against introducing denooii- '• nationalism into this matter. ( The ' Star' had very wisely deprecated ita introduction. In hi 6 opinion the eyes of the Government would soon be opened to the mistake, and they would countermand the instructions cm which Lieut. Thorns had acted. It would be a great boon to the youth of this country to bo thoroughly martial in discipline, and the appointment of the right class of officers was essential. A member stated that the Trinity] Methodist Synod had found on inquiry that it was impossible for that church to tv form a company. It was therefore ," 6 thought advisable to seek to combine witJi Knox Church. He asked if that Church • could raise a company, and what the posist tion was in other churches. *' The Chairman : The secretary informs me that he has had no replies whatever id containing this information. s, A Member: That seems a pity, it Captain Sundstrmm supported Mr Saunil ders's motion. As good citizens they it 6 hould suppoit the law as they found it, Js but denominationalism should bo left out s, altogether. He hoped the proposal would >r be wiped out and heard no more of. id A member proposed an amendment that •hj tho Council could not see their way clear a- to take any action in the matter, but tho re chairman rided that it was hardly an to amendment to the resolution. | ie Another member suggested the possis. bility of a combined corps formed from the churches represented in the Council. m He mentioned the possibility of the t_ cadets from the various churches being under officers not nominated by the " churches, and urged the need of protect- - 3r ing the youth of the churches from the influence of lad 6 who had not had the - same homo training. This would not be 3 " ensured unless there were denominational '' corps. 1_ The Chairman: The Dofenco Depart'e ment do not ask us to appoint officers. "° They only offer us the privilege of nominating officers, who wdl be given the ls opportunity of choosing their own comy pany. Supposing we nominate an officer, the department' would be at liberty to 0 accept or reject him. If they accepted » him they would allow him to choose his 6 company. >f Rev. W. Hay : Then the officers would e have the opportunity not merely of choos- >, ing, but of enrolling their corps? n The Chairman said that could not be, 1- as the enrolment would be over by June ■s 2, and the officers were not yet nominated. :e The Secretary (Rev. G. Heighway) read " from the letter a statement that the y officers would be allowed, as far as posv sible to select the lads who would form j. their companies. tr The Chairman : That does not say that hj they will be privileged to enrol further. v They can only select the boys from those " e already enrolled. What further possia bility they will have I do not know. jt An appeal was here made to Rev. Mr 1 Button, who holds the position of chaplain ' in the local forces. Mr Dutton explained that supposing the „ Central Mission were to raise a company, , Mr Slade would have a roll sent to him, and he would see that the boys were on , the roll. Ho would also (with'his fellow- ' workers) nominate officers to take charge 6 of these boys. The idea of nominating e officers was inseparably associated with e the raising of the companies, haJf-com- • panies, or sections by the respective ■ churches. These two things were inscpare able, and that was where the difficulty '" came in. He thought that the functions ■' of Church and State were entirely different 6 in a matter of this kind. He was in k " thorough sympathy with Mr Saunders's ;• views. It was an immense advantage to '" bring on boys under military discipline. e It was the duty of every citizen to be capd able of defending the State. (There could e be no greater misuse of terms than to it apply tho word conscription to our method ', of "compulsory military service.) He 1, thought it was their duty as a Church to - look after the moral and spiritual interests I, of their boys, and that lay in the direction tr of following them into camp. The chapn lain would look after those interests there, s The enrolling of the bovs and the appoint- -- ment of officers was entirely the function of e the State. Nothing would militate* so 0 much against the efficiency of the move--3 ment as the proposal to introduce denomie nationalism. He had no fear that the f officers likely to be appointed, whether ~ the churches took action or not, would not 1 bo men who would regard very sincerely t their responsibilities in relation to the 3 lads. He knew many of tho present mili--3 tary officers who were church members and 3 office-bearers, and their influence on their 3 men was good. Even some officers nomi- • I nated by tho Church would probably have 1 their little shortcomings. Those liliely to ' be appointed officers of the ciJets woul.l . " bo men to whom the church?s might wisely , trust their boys. In conclusion, he said '. that he scarcely thought it would bo neces- | sary for some time to come to take the lads forming the senior cadets into camp. , \ Mr Cummins said the denominational ; proposal showed tho whole movement to , be absolutely unworkable, and it was bound to become a positive curse instead . 1 of a blessing or a help. He was pleased. \ 1 however, that tho State had invited the , ; churches to send their best men into the 1 camps and barracks with the boys. . Mr Saunders mentioned that Mr Dutton's ' explanation showed that the two matters | were so bound up that one could not be -\ put without the other. This was a mis- - take. It did not appear to him that the < two questions were at all involved. Surely . those in our churches wore as interested in ■ seeing that godly officers were recommended for the boys who did not go to church i as for the boys who did. j The Chairman said he understood that J the churches could only nominate officers ? in proportion to the number of boys en- < rolled in tho church companies. If Mr < Saunders's resolution were passed, what t answer would the Council make to Lieu- i tenant Tlioms's letter? 1 Rev. R, R. M. Sutherland said that the ; Roman Catholic and Episcopal Churches i had already decided to form companies, t aucl the Salvation Army also. Their ad- ] herents woro a majority of tho people. < Were the other churches to do nothing? < Mr Saunders: It is futile to call on the t Defence Department to stop it. < Mr Sutherland : Will they? As thoso ' churches have a majority of voters, I don't ; suppose the Defence Department will stop j it. _ 1 Rev. A. Game Ton said the resolution did not go far enough. He opposed the whole thing, root and branch. Because military training was the law, it need not necessarily go on. That was not the way in which tho Church looked at other evils. The Prohibitionist did not say that because licensed houses existed, therefore they must go on. Ho believed this evil of militarism would be quite as destructive to tho welfare of the community as some of these other evils. Therefore he was j not greatly interested in the harmless little motion expressing disapproval of denomi- -. nationalism. They would be having it j spreael to the Territorials. Why were not the churches anxious to have the appoint- ' ment of teachers in tho State schools to * look after the moral welfare of the chil- * dren? If the moral character of the offi- 1 cers of cadets could not be secured with- ! out the help of the churches, what about ' the lads when they passed from the cadets ] into the Territorials'/ It had been said - that the young people should have train- < ing. But why military training? If their 1 physique was deficient, why could not the i Government provide increased gymnasium ' accommodation and instruction? If there must be compulsion, why not compel the . young men who loafed in the streets to \ go to secondary or continuation schools? The term conscription could quite legitimately be applied to our system, and he would continue to use it. Mr Saunders's motion was shortly afterwards carried, with only one dissentient. Considerable discussion ensued as to how the letter of Lieutenant Thorns should be answered. Rev W. Slade said that the Government could be trusted to appoint tho right kind of men as officers. Rev. Mr Saunders said that as they, as i churches, had objected to form denominational corps they could not nominate officers. The Chairman submitted that the definition of denominationalism was too narmw. It would be Gtill open to the churches of a locality to combine to form corps and , nominate officers for it. i A Member: No. They would be church , companies, i Rev. Mr Sutherland : The denominational : element has been introduced already. It is > there, and may be there for mourn time. I i

think we could do both—combine to form corps and nominate officers. At the same time we can protest. Rov. Mr Cameron contended that the 1 Council were of opinion that the Church as a Church should take no part whatever in the formation of cadet companies. To in- ' vito the Church to do so was to invite it to depart from its real function and be untrue to the Master. Rev. W. Slade submitted the following resolution :—" That tho Council of Churches deeply appreciate the courtesy of Lieutenant Thoms'a letter, and the offer re the formation of church companies of cadets and the nomination of officers thereto, but in view of its objection to the formation of denominational companies, it is the opinion that the churches as such shoiild leave the matter to the military authorities." Mr Farquharson seconded this. Mr Cameron moved as an amendment—- " That the Council were of opinion that the churches as such should take no part in the formation of cadet companies." Rev. W. Hay seconded this. Mr Cameron's amendment was carried by 10 votes to 9. . It was agreed to further amend this substantive motion by adopting tlie first clause of Mr Slade's resolution, the whole reading : _«This Council of Churches deeply appreciates the courtesy of Lieutenant Thcms and District Commander Jones, and the offer of forming church companies ot cadets and the nomination of officers thereto, but it is of opinion that trie churches as such should take no part in the formation of cadet companies. This was carried, with only two dissentients, and the meeting ended.