DR HOCKEN'S TREASURES.

Evening Star, Issue 12873, 24 July 1906, Page 4

DR HOCKEN'S TREASURES.

DEPUTATION OF CITIZENS TO THE PREMIER. _ At 11.30 a,m. to-day a large deputation interviewed the Hon. W. Hall-Jones to ask for Government aid in the effort to comply with the conditions under which Dr Hocken has offered hig early-historv collection to the public. The mayor (Mr G. Lawrence) headed the deputation, having with him Crs Crust, Arkle, Ixmdon, aiid Burnett, Mr Richards (town clerk), Messrs Donald Reid J. Duthic, G. L. Denniston, M. Cohen A Bathgate, T. Brown, J. A. Bumside. and Dr Hocken. The members of the legislature present were the Hon. W. M Bolt and Messrs J. A, Millar, J. F. Arnold,' A. R, Barclay. T. K. Sidey, and T. kenzie. Mr Millar brief!v introduced the deputation.

The Mayor said that the object of nil concerned was, if possible, to .take advantage of thp very generous offer that Dr Hocken had made to, the City and to the colony. The promoters of the Art Gallery had. he believed, strained every nerve to "carry'out their project, and the citizens had responded splendidly to that call. The Early Settlers' Association also had gone to a, deal of trouble in getting subscriptions, which were, he believed, sufficient to put up their build' ing. Tlie difficulty now was bow. coming after those and other efforts, to raise money enough for a building to suitably house Dr Hocken's collection." It would be a calamity if the- offer could not.be taken advantage of. The collection was of great money value, and it seemed to the public it would prove of great use to tourists and settlers and the people at large. The deputation wished to. ask if the Government would help by supplying! the money with which to erect a Building., and, if possible, by also supervising the custody after the bufldhig was up. The Dunedin public had been so much drained lately that they could scarcely stand many more calls. Perhaps Dr Hockeu would make a statement on the subject.

Dr Hocken said that he had not much to add. The collection was of great value to the colony as well as to Dunedin—some of the maps and., manuscripts dated back a century, to a period long before colonisation —and his special wish was that it should be well looked after. As to the space necessary, he was understood yesterday as savin <* that 60ft x 40ft would "do. That waa a mistake. What he said was that that space would be taken up by the pkos and pictures, not the whole collection. Mr Donald P»cid said lhat ti» collection was a very valua.blo one, and the gift- would be highly appreciated by the people of Otago if they could accept it; but, likt* some other people—he did not .say all'other peo].4e. since he understood that up iu the North they were rolling in wealth—hut hero th;y wore stfu<rglihg along just to keep' the colony afloat, r.nd the calls made of late, for the Art Gallery, the Eaily Settler? Association, religious gatherings, a cathedral, the Hospital, the University, a Scotch college, and what not, had been so numerous that this one became a difficulty. It was felt that, seeing there were a considerable body of people liere in Otago, and considering that there were so many centres fa the colony—-New Zealand being in that respect unlike Victoria and the other Australian States, where everythinjr was focossed and provided for at the public experse—the claim fTom. Otago was a, just one. The people here helped to maintain the Museum in Wellington, and properly so, but they got very little good from it and other institutions that were in Wellington, and it was thought that, seeing such a great gift was offered, Otago.might reasonably ask for the money to provide the housing. The Government had already kindly granted tlho Early Settlers' Association the use of a site, for which.they were grateful, and they hoped, conjointly with the Gallery Trustees, to put up a building which' would be an ornament to the City. Now, asm of, say, £1,500 was wanted to provide for Dr Hoefeen's colleotion, and what tiie deputation asked of the Premier was an undertaking that this request would be brought before Parliament, for they felt sore that, the request befog so leaaooabte and meaning so much to the people here, it would meet with favor in the Honss. It was iinportairfc to the youth of the colony that such historical treasures should be secured for their use, ancT* f be object was one that the Qpvdmmenfc could properly contribute to. The whole 6Um required was, he was informed, about £2,000, and: if th& Premier would give an assurance of £1,500 an effort would ho made to get tbo other £SOO frost* ite peopia. Mr Oo&eri remarked that m Australia these things •wero hwaaably nnderiaieen by

generally;. In regard td Hie 1 Mitchell bequest of a magriificerif the* Sew South Wales Government not" only undertook Ilk) expense of bousing,- involving a very large expenditure, but also tbe equipment; arid in. addition they provided two and a-half acres as a. site.. There were 7,000 volumes in Df Hocfeen's collection. Theso would require 650 square feet offcpuc'fc Tho framed pictures would take another 650 square feet, whilst the <jther prints, maps, and plana'would require 1,500" square feet in addition, and setoffs of these were to be at/ once framed. The collection would be of great value to persons' who' wished to consult the records of the colony; He might also state that if this collection were accepted and properly housed; another .collection of high. Value wculd be also offered. He .was authorised to make that statement publicly.., Mr Bathgate said that the gift was hot merely local, but to the colony, and would be as much the.property of the colony as if housed in Wellington. The value of the gift was enormous —it avos a collection tha't money could not buy. In asking for £1.500 out of the £2,000 required the deputation were making a moderate request. This Government, before committing them selves to any expenditure on it, migut get a report from Mr Hamilton and perhaps..ask Mr Justice Chapman for his opinion. Both these gentlemen knew thfe collectiori. Dr Hockeii: Yes,- before any money is spent the collection should be thoroughly reported on to sec whether it is of the value I take it to be. That is mv wisk

Or Loudon endorsed the remarks of previous speakers. The gift would be not merely to Dunediri. but to the whole colony. The Government might perhaps seo fit to delegate to the City Council authority to look after the collection. The demand for £1,500 was exceedingly moderate. The Government had already expressed strong disapproval of allowing historical documents and records to leave the colony, aiid he thought that to secure this gift the Government might riot only give the £1,500 asked, but also allow *a. small sum annually for proper maintenance. The Hon. W. Hall-Jones then replied. He said that; ho must join those of the deputation who had spoken in thanking their old friend Dr Hdcken for his magnificent offer to the City df Dimedin, of perhaps lie should say "to Otago. The Mayor: To the colony, sir. The Premier: No, not to"the colony, for if eueb an offer had bean made to the colony a deputation would not have been interviewing him on the subject to-day, because very likely,- if such an offer had" been made in other directions, it would have been closed with before now. He knew something about Dr Hockeifs- eofiectioh, not personally, but from those who had seen it and were in a position to recognise its value, and they agreed that it was a unique collection. It contained works that could not bo obtained in any other part of the worloV—works that wore- hot to be found in the Colonial Library, tho Parliamentary Library, and which be would' like to have tlicro. Though we called it the Parhamentary Library, it was always looked upoil as the Colonial Library, it being for the good of the people as a whole. What struck him when he lieard of the offer was the thought that within a fortnight the people of Duhedin would say that they had found tho money to close with it. He did not know what, progress had been mad© towards that end, but it could not be much when out of a cost of £2,000 they asked the Government to find £1,500 and an annual sum for maintenance. Where would it kind the Government if this request were granted and it wesro followed up by similar requests from other places? To do so would be to incur a very large expenditure. Ho still hoped that tbe people of Otago Would themselves make provision, for the housing of this valuable collection. Mr Donald' Rekl had spoken about the poor people of Otago aoxl the calls made upon them, of late. WelL though this was the first- time lie had had the pleasure of meeting Mr Donald Reid, he knew Mr Read well by name, and felt sure, that in a movement of this sort he would bo one of the first to lend a hand. Well, the immediate question was " What are the people themselves going to do?" When that was answered there would be something to go on—Something different to what they had this morning, and if the answer was all right lie would then, ask his colleagues what they would do. It was not a largo sum that Was. needed, and if tbe people here were prepared to do their share he in turn would be prepared to make a'recommendation, but not on the lines suggested, of the State finding £1.500 and the City £SOO. It would be" a mistake if Otago allowed this collection to go away. He would be glad to assist in retaining it here, not only for the sake of the great value of the collection, but also bdeause Dr Hockcn was one of our oldest.and most respected residents, and it would be nice to have something to remember him bv when in the fulness of time he should be'called away. Lot tho people of Otago do their duty, and then he would see if his colleagues would not do something to help.- Ho would suggest that the umyor should see what could bo done, and then communicate with him. But the people should not let this opportunity pass by On the expectation that they were going to get the grant suggested, fof he did not think; it would be done on the lines proposed by the deputation. He did not waut to deceive the deputation. The place would have to do more than find £SOO out of £2,000. _ If the mayor and those who were working with him were to put their -shoulders to the wheel they would find the people rallying round them, and be fully believed that in the course of ten days or a fortnight they would be able to send him word that they had done something worthy of the place. Mr Cohen: If you will recommend £ for £ on what is locally raised we would undertake, I think, to find the maintenance. The Mayor: Just what I was going to suggest. The Premier: I cannot commit my colleagues ; tho whole matter will have to be considered by them. Mr Bathgate mentioned that in Aucldand the Government gave £ for £ for the Maori house property of the late Mr Fenton. That was an offer to the public before they started to do anything. The Premier: I don't think that has come to anything; but that is one of the (iiiugs I shall look into—l want to look into tho precedents. If you, Mr Mayor, will sec to this, and find out what can be done, we will see what further assistance is required. 'Mr T. Mackenzie : If this offer is not accepted by the people of Otago, and if the collection goes to Wellington, will it be housed there at tbe public, expense? The Premier: Wo aTe nob going to let it leave Otago. * Mr Arklc a-sked whether, if the collection were offered to the Government, the money would be found. Did ho not understand .tbe Premier to say that? The Premier: What I said was that if the offer had been made in other parts of the colony the money to house it would be found.

Mr Donald Reid asked'" what claim had Wellington fcr a, museum at the public expense mote than Iftinedin had? ]svery large centre of population had as good a claim as Wellington. He hoped the Mhuster""wouldi give them greater encouragement than he had. If an appeal were now made to the public they would ask what the Government were going to do. The Premier: My belief as to the people of Otago is that, they have mora interest in this collection than to lose it. You cannot have a Parliamentary Library in every town. The Mayer: Cannot you give the public some encorrr&gemont by saying that you will advocate a £ for £ subsidy? The Premier: My own opinion is that the people of Dune'din and the peopk of Otago ought to find the raooey themselves. I,will not mince matters with you. If you endeavor to raise the money arid find no response, I db not. want to see the offer lost—&ai 39 in© position I aiv in—l do not want it lost to the colony. If a similar request were made to me in "Wellington, or in, any other place, I should say the same thing. The Mayor thanked the Premier for receiving the deputation. otjr symposium: No.Tii. The loss to the City of ihe splendid offer of Dr Hocken's valuable collection cannot £or a monwaii bo th<wgh» of. My

the offer to the City best be utilised?" is as follows :—A splendid and central large site has been secured b'y the Trustees of the Art Gallery, ample in size and veiy suitable for the. Art Gallery, .'Early Settlers' building, the fidck'eri collection, arid a tourist btirean corhbiried. The Hockeri collection should be in ihe portion o'i the block of - building" adjacent to orforming part of the Bufeati,. so that' the officers or the latter could iilsb supervise and control the collectiori; (hat the v giit Should he iriade a national one —i.e., given to the Government—on ..condition that it be. Ideated for alt time iri Dunedin, for the benefit ri'oi only of the local people, ,but for the whole of the inhabitants of New Zealand and tourists visiting our shores. .As* to the' secorid question, regarding the most effective way of fal.'iinff the necessary funds, to Carry out the object iri vie*, I wotfld suggest that a .c6rifere'rice\be held by the Trustees and other bodied interested iri the' different if possible getting the Gfeverriiriettt to' be represented in thfe. interest 6t their Toirris'i De-partriieht, with the.object of deciding the size' arid .cjass of building required for the w'noie. Having regard to future reqtareaients, we should ask the Government to subsidise & for £ for money' collected for the porP°? e .f f completing the building, and alio ask them to take' over the rriariagemerit of the Hocken collection. Then make a. national appeal for .funds to efficiently house and show Dr Hbclcen's valuable and unique collection. If if be made a national gift little difficulty, in ray opinion, will be experienced in securing ample iunds td erect, a suitable 5 building for the reception 6f the gift.-GEcm GB Laurence (Mayor of Dunediri). I have to" apologise for not replying sooner' to your invitation to make some suggestions in respect to Dr Hocken's proposed gift to the City As a matter of fact. I was waiting to get a reply from the. Government, to whom I had submitted the proposal that they should make a contribution towards the object.' lam of opinion that the funds necessary should he raised from three sources—(l) By private subscription •' (2) a Government subsidy on the amount so raised; (o) a contribution bv the Corporation lam inclined to think that the suggestion made, by Cr J. E. White that the necessary building would placed on the Museum grounds is the best proJT^r 80 far ' one is iole ™My sm» that the Museum, and the buildings attached will always receive a certain amount of regular and assiduous care arid attention. One hopes that the Early Settlers' Institution when erected will also be carefully fostered and cherished, but there is hardly the same guarantee in respect to the voluntary body that there is in regard to the official institution. From the Premier I have received a reply, in which, without saying, as a matter of fact, .whether the Government will assist or not, he suggests that if the mat-ter.be riot arranged so an to retain the collection iri Draeoiri, the Government will be found endeavoring to procure some of.the valuable items for the parliamentary library. My idea of,the practical method' of proceeding would be for the mayor to call a public hieeting to discuss the question, appoint a committee thereat, start a subscription-list in the room, and, at the same tithe, make every effort to bring the Government and the Corporation into line with tlto citizens in respect to finance. I thhik that Dr Hocken's idea of having a list made and a report furnished by some gentleirian able to judge the value of such a coQeetiori as his is a thoroughly good one. I have, personally, riot the slightest doubt that, it is extremely valuable. Mr It. M'Nab, M.H.R., might perhaps be one of these gentlemen.—A. R. Babclat.