CHURCH UNION.

Evening Star, Issue 12164, 7 April 1904, Page 3

CHURCH UNION.

CONSIDERED BY THE PRESBY TERIAN SYNOD.

The Synod met yesterday morning at ten o'clock. The Rev. A Cameron presided, in the absence of the Moderator. The Rev. P. B. Fraser moved the following motion, of which he gave notice on Tuesday : —" Whereas the Synod at their meeting in 1902 unanimously adopted and forwarded to the General Assembly an overture from the Presbytery of Clutha petitioning the Assembly to take steps for the establishing of an annual conference of Christian churches, with a view to co-operation in matters of common interest, and whereas there is a movement now before the Church for an incorporating union with Congregational and Methodist Churches, and whereas the Synod are of opinion that the present movement is unwise and premature, the Synod hereby resolve respectfully to petition the General Assembiy to terminate the present movement and to proceed on the lines suggested by the overture presented by the Synod to the Assembly in 1902, or otherwise, as the Assembly in their wisdom see fit, for the good of the Church and God's glory in this land." Speaking in support of his motion, Mr Fraser urged the need of frankness and freedom of expression in discussing this matter, and this should have been exercised in public before the proposal for an incorporating union was formally brought before the courts of the Church. He thought the whole question of union had been brought prematurely before Assembly. He maintained that the present movement for organic union was not what was intended by the overture from the Clutha Presbytery in 1902, which sought only that step should be taken to establish an annual conference of representatives of churches for co-operating in matters of immediate common interest. His object in bringing the question before the Synod was to draw forth" an expression of opinion the matter, so that the Church should not" be further committed to negotiations without the fullest consideration of a question vital to her very existence. He was not going to enter into any argument on the question, for he believed few members altered their minds as a result of Synod speeches. Finally, Mr Fraser read several quotations from letters he had received from leading divines in Britain and America, to whom he had written, because he considered that the doctrinal Questions raised were neither parochial nor local, but affected the vital doctrines that connected their Church with the srrpat churches of Christendom. The Rev. D. Borrie seconded the motion. ■ He said he thought they had allowed the Assembly at Wellington to go too far. Thev had committed themselves too much, and had entered into negotiations, and if tnev withdrew he feared that they would stultify themselves to a certain "extent.—(Hear, hear.) He took his share of the blame for that Assembly going too far. He had a little difficulty in thinking that the Synod might to discuss this question.—(Hear, hear.) That, however, was taken away by the fact that the Synod raised the question. By coming to a decision in Synod they might so far forestall the Assembly and do an in-, justice to other branches of the Church. Immediately after Assembly he saw that they had gone too far, and therefore he withdrew his name from the Committee. It was absurd to suppose that they could discuss this matter as an abstract qnestion. As such there could be no two opinions about it—they were all in favor of abstract union. They must discuss this question as a practical one of union between the three churches, and on no other ground. There were several questions to face. First, as to the form of church government. Was it possible to unite Congregational and Presbyterian Churches under one form of government? Could they go nearer to one another? He, held that they (the Presbyterians;) could not go nearer, therefore the others must come nearer them. There was the same difficulty to be faced as regarded union with the Wesleyan Church. There was one thing he feared in regard to the Church, and the older he grew the more he feared it; that was priestcraft. Therefore he believed in strong representation of laymen in the church councils. They hnd a steadying influence. The Wesleyans would not agree to this. Then there was the qnestion of creed. Theyjnust Lave a creed, and it must be clear and definite and unambiguous. He believed that there might be too much in their creed; but there were certain things that they could not let go. They must have a creed to which they could all subscribe. He did not believe that Christ meant His Church to be run into one mould and one form, and he did not believe that they could get all branches to unite. It had pained him for many years to hear the 17th chapter of John quoted in this respect. This always seemed to him almost blasphemous. The lord's words never meant that. He opposed this union and he seconded the motion. The Rev. J. M'Kerrow moved as an amendment that this motion be not remitted. He thought it unwise and presumptuous for them to discuss the matter in Synod and present an overture to the Assembly. He did not know what the Synod bad to do with the question. It was a mistake on the part of Mr Borrie to say that it originated with Synod.—(Hear, hear.) The Rev. D. K. Fisher seconded the amendment, and questioned Synod's competency to discuss the matter. The "Rev. Dr Watt came forward with an amendment urging further efforts towards union. He agreed with a great deal that had been said, by Messrs Fraser and Borrie and well said by them. But be had a feeling that they could not now draw back without discredit. Let them face the difficulties before them, and if they were found insuperable, let them acknowledge it. Thev had made advances and been treated very courteously by the other churches, and it would be a slap in the face- for them if Synod passed this motion. He believed that union would come—not in his lifetime; but it must come some time, and they must begin some time. He thought that the trend in the Wesleyan Church was strongly in favor of giving laymen representation. The qnestion of creed was a

more difficult point; but it might be overcome. There was a good deal more to be said for union than had been said by Mr Borrie. The larger churches were already sweeping the smaller ones into the vortex", and he believed that in twenty or thirty years there would be two big branches—the. sacerdotal and the non-sacerdotal^ The Rev. James Clarke seconded the amendment. Mr Eraser, he said, was the author of this movement, and he deserved all the credit that was due to him for it. But if Mr Fraser came then and questioned, after two years, if this was being aaked by the people, then he had to inquire of Mr Fraser if he had asked that when he raised the question in the Clutha. He was quite certain that that was not answerable. If Mr Fraser looked at the question from an ecclesiastically statesmanlike point of view he would not see all the difficulties as he did. They should, as Dr Watt had said, go on until tbey saw that they could Lot go any further. Then they could wait until the mind of the Church was mature. He believed that this was a far more desirable union than the union of the two Presbyterian Churches. He was not convinced of the competency of the motion. What right had they as a Synod to sit in judgment on what had been submitted by Assembly to the presbyteries? The Rev. W. Will"rose to ask whether it was competent for Synod to discuss this question. It was before the presbyteries, and they had not yet considered it. Was it, then, competent for the Synod to consider it? He would move that the motion was not competent. Mr Fraser submitted that the qnestion of competency should have been raised at the prop r time. This savored of an attempt to defeat the motion by unfair means. The Rev. Mr Cameron said that he felt some difficulty in dealing with the question. Had he known that he was to preside he would have looked np the Church law on the point. However, his own impression was that Synod had power to deal with the quesThat was his ruling, though he gave it with hesitancy, for the reason stated.

The Rev. R. R. M. Sutherland, who spoke vehemently and had to be called to order, expressed himself strongly in favor of (be right to discuss the matter. If this movement was gone on with it wonld not be union that would result, but disunion. Therefore he believed it was their duty as Christian men to ask Assembly to stop'this movement for an incorporating union. The Rev. W. Scorgie thought the matter had been discussed long enough to get a good idea of the opinions of both sides. He thought thev should then drop it. Thev would gain nothing by dividing Svnod, and would show to the "whole of Otago and Southland their own internal disunion. He moved that the Synod, having discussed the question, come to no decision in connection with the whole discussion. The Rev. A. W. Kinmont seconded Mr Scorgie's motion. He doubted the wisdom of carrying this overture through. Mr 'Fraser said that if his seconder thought it wise, :vnd seeing that his objected boen to create interest and discission throughout the Church, he would withdraw his motion with p!ea>ure. His whole object was not to get a vote from the Synod, but to put a drag on some that were "driving too hard. He thought that even his opponents would agree afterwards that it was a good thing to have had tie discussion.—(Hear, hear.) Mr Borrie said that, on the understanding that the other motions were withdrawn, he would consent. He was quite clear on the point of the Synod's right in the matter. — (Laughter.) Dr Watt, when asked if he would withdraw his motion, said that he would very much have liked to divide the Synod as-a matter of guidance when be went to Assembly, but under the circumstances he would withdraw. The other motions were then withdrawn. and the matter dropped.

The question as to whether the Auckland Presbytery were for or against the proposal for an inquiry into the question of union of the Congregational, Methodist, and Presbyterian Churches came up for discussion before Tuesday's meeting of the Presbytery. It was moved by the Rev. Gray Dixon—"That the Presbytery heartilv approve of the proposal that the General Assembly should negotiate with the Methodist and Churches with a view to union upon a basis of dootrine and policy to be considered and in due time sent down to presbyteries and sessions." The Anglican Church was the real body with which they should unite, on account of the similarity of form of Government He did not see' why they should not come together and unite in a common New Zealand national church. However, as it se?med they cou'.d not unite with the Anglicans, he did not see why tbey should not unite with other churches. An amendment was moved by the Rev. Mr Wedderspoon to the eif ct that the Presbytery, while cherishing the most friendly feelings towards the churches concerned, did not think that union was for the benefit of the Church or for the advancement of the cause of Christ in New Zealand. They therefore prayed that the movement be terminated, but suggesting instead that they should take united action in d.aling with such questions as temperance, Bible in schools, etc. The amendment was lost, and the motion carried by a large majority. The Session of St. (Wellington) Presbyterian Church last night passed a resolution endorsing the General Assembly's remit on the question of union with the Methodist and. Congregational Churches.