VILLAGE SETTLEMENTS.

Evening Star, Issue 7233, 8 June 1887, Page 2

VILLAGE SETTLEMENTS.

[From Our Parliamentary Reporter.] WELLINGTON, June 7. Tho debate on this subject was resumed in the House to-day by Mr Duncan, who defended tho expenditure on village settlements, but was satisfied that such a scheme Gould not be established without Government assistance. He only wished that such settlements had been established in his district. This was the first practical endeavor to take the unemployed by the hand, and open for them the door of hope for the future of themselves and their families. Major Atkinson said the general feeling appeared to him to be that this discussion should be brought to a close as soon as possible. It was evident that they could not get any definite information from the Government as to what they were doing and what they proposed to do. The question was not as to the desirability of such a scheme of settlement, but the action of the Minister of Lands in incurring such a large liability as L 75.000 when only L 5,000 was voted. No Parliament doing its duty to the people could consent to any Minister going so far on his own responsibility. He would like to know how much of the L 5,000 they now asked for was to be spent on tho settlers now located, and how much on the establishment of new settlers. Further information was also required relative to the exact position and authority of Mr Lundon. The Minister of Lands said the member for Egmont had put the matter very fairly, and ho would give the information asked for. The Public Works Statement, which would have been brought forward if certain events had not interfered therewith, contaiueda vote of L 5,000. His intention respecting this vote would then have been explained. The actual expenditure for the year was L 8*2,000, including L 6.000 of advances. This would be taken out of the. L 62,000 of liabilities, which extended over two years. Nearly the whole of the L 5.000 asked for would be required for liabilities. He would now state what they had done in this village settlement work from Ist April last till May 28. In Auckland 74 families had been settled on 204 acres ; In Taranaki 50 acres had been settled ; in Wellington 10 families had been settled on 134 acres; in Canterbury, 50 families on 1,955 acres; in Otago, 46 families on 751 acres ; in Southland, 13 families on 119 acres. Thus, 194 families had been located on 6,258 acres during a period of eight weeks. The Government believed that 150 additional families could be placed on the land up till next September. It was part of the Government policy to go on with the work in the interim, and when the new House met they would ask for funds to meet the liabilities incurred. As far as Mr Lundon was concerned there was no doubt he had performed his duties with great energy and zeal. He was not prepared to say that he had performed his duties with the regularity of an ordinary public official, because anyone who knew Mr Lundon knew that such a thing was impossible. For sometime his (Mr Ballanoee) opinion bad been that this work should be done by the ordinary officials of the Department ; and it was the intention that from the end of June the work of Mr Lundon should be brought to a conclusion. In reply to Major Atkinson, Mr Ballance said that Mr Lundon had no authority over Mr Percy Smith. The officers, and not Mr Lundon, were held responsible for the successful establishment of the scheme, Mr Fisher approved warmly of the settlement of people on the land, but he objected to the burden of charitable aid in Auckland being placed on the Consolidated Revenue. He objected to such a responsibleofficer as the Assistant Surveyor-general being under the orders of an irresponsible man like Mr Lundon, and disapproved of the methods of carrying out tho settlement scheme. It was a matter for satisfaction that the employment of Mr Lundon was to cease. In reply to Mr Ormond, Mr Ballancb said he did not propose to go on with the location of settlers unless he had the authority of the House, The Premier defended what had been done for the districts north of Auckland, and said that the special settlers would resent Mr Fisher’s allusion to the charitable aid relief. He predicted further unemployed troubles within the next twelve months, and was satisfied that whoever was in power would find the best remedy for these agitations in village settlements. Mr Montgomery complained of the unfair prominence given to the perpetual lease system over the other land settlement systems in force. Mr G. F. Richardson declared that large sums of money were being spent in opening up useless lands, and said tho Minister of Lands deserved a direct vote of censure in so far exceeding the vote of the House. Mr J. C. Buckland, who claimed to have more experience of settlement in his little finger than the whole bench of Ministers possessed in their bodies, said if the Minister of Lands had endeavored to make land settlement popular he would have done some good. Until we got a Government which believed in introducing from England the surplus fanners who possessed some capital, the policy would be of no avail to the country. He instanced the military settlements in the Waikato as proof of the difficulties in the way of the village settlement scheme.

Dr Newman regretted that the House bad no opportunity of placing on record its sense respecting the excessive liability incurred by Mr Ballance. If the House refused to ratify the engagements entered into the settlers could sue the Minister of Lands, and he would be placed in an awkward position. They had been told that Mr Lundon had received nothing for his services, and now he got 12s 6d per day, and he would like to know if this was all he was to receive. The Minister of Lands said it would be found on looking at the land account that they had not confined themselves to one system of settlement alone. He considered the homestead system to be ruinous and wasteful, and, although these settlers might struggle on for years, the chances were against them. Tho tendency of new arrivals was to buy improved land, and of fifty families who came out from England under the small farms settlement system last year nearly everyone had bought improved lands. The money paid to Mr Lundon was for travelling expenses. In reply to Mr Ormond, Mr Ballance said nearly the whole of the L 53.000 for harbor defences was for war material on the way out, and which would shortly be landed in the Colony. Mr Scobie Mackenzie asked on what Mr Ballance based his condemnation of the homestead system. Had he ever tried it ? The Minister of Lands : Yes, in Auckland.

Mr Mackenzie’s opposition to the system was that it was a form of land purchase, and was opposed to the system of perpetual lease, of which Mr Ballance was such a strong admirer. He (Mr Mackenzie) argued at some length in support of tho freehold system. The Premier, in reply, said if the country

had had the perpetual lease system in force since the early days of the Colony the taxation would not have been so heavy, the State would have better control of its lands, and such great monopoly in land holdings would not exist. He predicted that the State would yet have to revise the system of land tenure in New Zealand. Mr Dargaville defended the Minister of Lands for jus action in exceeding the vote, aud declared that the members for Auckland East and Egrooqt had furnished precedents when in power .with much less reason. Mr G. F. Richardson ridiculed the idea of paying people to settle on good land. Sir G. Grey said that the terms on which people, were allowed to, occupy these village settlements were such as to injure their character and destroy their prospects for life. He denied that those lands were given to the unemployed.. One bon, member told them that two maiden ladies were among the families put on land. He condemned the action of the Minister of Lands in incurring such a large expenditure without Parliamentary sanction for an entirely new system of land settlement, and expressed himself strongly in favor of the freehold tenure of land. The Premier twitted Sir George Grey with speaking one. way one day and another way next day, and it was that which had lost him his influence, and which made the hon. member stand alone in the House. He asserted that since the present Government had taken office Sir George Grey had cared nothing for Liberal principles or Liberal ideas. Mr Flint! tis said it was unworthy of the Premier’s position to level such reproaches as he had done at tho member for Auckland City East, who was immeasurably the Premier's superior. He referred to the action of the Premier in joining Sir J. Vogel, and said that by so doing ho had united the most Conservative section of tho House with the most Radical section. He had lost the confidence of the country by his action in this respect, and fie had also lost the support of his own friends in his own district. With respect to tho village settlement question, he said they must have good men to put on this land—men who were suited to agricultural work ' and he asserted that the present Government, with one exception, were the merest theorists, and knew nothing whatever about the necessities of the country, and cared less. He hoped the House would take some steps to stop the extravagant expenditure df the Minister for Lands with respect to special settlements. Mr Ivess regretted to hear the Premier’s reply to Sir George Grey, but thought the people of New Zealand were under a debt of gratitude to the present Minister of Lands for his efforts to settle the land of the country. Mr Fulton hoped the debate would come to a close, in order that members might gti to the country and save the expense that was now going on by continuing the session after a dissolution had been granted. He should like to ask Mr Ballance whether Mr Henries had been dismissed from special settlements.

The Hon. Mr Bau.anoe said he was not aware of his having beeh dismissed, but he would make inquiries. Mr DoWnie Stewart said they were ex* pcrimenting with' the land of the Colony in a manner that would prove disastrous to it. The only thing that would save the Colony was population, but the present land laws would never attract people to the country, He knew that capital was being taken from the Colony in consequence of the uncertainty of our land tenure, and the country would never progress under such a system. He did not know much about the settlement scheme, but he thought the right people would not be induced to settle on the land and remain there. He was strongly opposed to perpetual leasing, and said they would have a great outcry shortly to get a different system of tenure. If they carried on the present system he felt sure they would land themselves in great difficulties. The Treasurer combated Mr Stewart's statement that capital was being driven out of the country because of the land tenure. He contended that capital was taken from the country because people were not anxious to invest their money on mortgage. He could not think that any large number of members would advocate the selling of large blocks of land by the' Government. It was well known that he (Sir J. Vogel) was not in favor of perpetual leases, but he held that if Government were able to keep their land out of the market at the present time they were wise in more than one respect. If the Government contented themselves with selling as much land as was actually required for the purposes of settlement, it seemed to him the best policy to meet the necessities of the case. He hoped that there would be some limit to the discussion that had been going on for the last four or five days. The question to be discussed was the granting supplies till the meeting of the new Parliament, and a large number of the electors throughout the Colony were no doubt anxiously waiting to hear members’ opinions on the questions of the day. Mr PVKE was desirous, on the eve of the general election, to hear the opinions of his fellow-members on the land question, but he found they really knew very little on the subject. He was amazed to hear Sir J. Vogel express the sentiment that the Government should hold land when people were anxious to obtain it. That was an argument beneath the dignity of the House, and beneath the position which the Treasurer held in the House. He ventured to say that before many years were over every perpetual leaseholder and every deferred-payment holder would be freeholders. Nothing would ever satisfy the people of this country or any other country but the rightful possession of the soil. He intended to move a new clause that no further sum of money be appropriated for any particular purpose than that voted by the Appropriation Act. Mr Peacock desired seme information as to the expenditure of LIOO.OOO on North Island loan. It was stated that part of this money had been applied to the Tongariro National Park, and it was necessary some information should be afforded on that.

Mr Ballance said they had acquired for the North Island Railway 823,542 acres of land ; the cost of the Waimarino block was L.45,000, and 1,70,000 had been spent on the line this year. Mr F. H. Fbasee expressed himself strongly in favor of village settlements, and thought they would prove of great benefit to the country. Mr Moss said the establishment of special settlements was hailed with great delight In Auckland, and that scheme had been the means of relieving a large number of the, unemployed in that city. There were large numbers amongst the unemployed who were only too eager and anxious to get work if they could obtain it.