COMMITTED FOR TRIAL

Evening Post, Volume CXXVII, Issue 92, 20 April 1939, Page 24

COMMITTED FOR TRIAL

THE PIHA FIRE CASE

ACCUSED PLEAD NOT GUILTY

(By Telegraph—Press Association.)

AUCKLAND, April 19. With pleas of "not guilty" from Gordon Robert McKay, alias Tom Bowlands, wool and skin dealer, aged 43, and James Arthur Talbot, labourer, aged 38, both Australians, the Lower Court hearing of the Piha case concluded today, when Mr. C. R. Orr Walker, S.M., committed both men to the Supreme Court for trial. The hearing, which closed at 6 o'clock tonight, had occupied two full days and involved 40 witnesses. McKay and Talbot were jointly charged with improperly interfering with a dead human body, that of Patrick Henry Shine, in Auckland on February 10, and with wilfully setting fire to the dwelling house of Florence Jessie Thomas in Piha on February 12, thereby committing arson. Mr. R. J. C. Sanderson appeared for McKay and Mr. J. Terry for Talbot. Detective-Sergeant Nalder prosecuted. Evidence given by medical men and a Government analyst occupied most of the morning and practically the whole of the afternoon was taken up with that of two investigating detectives who had been engaged on. the case. The crowd of spectators which listened at the morning session was as large as that of the previous day, but in the afternoon the numbers gradually lessened, and when the Court rose only 12 persons, three of them women, remained in the public enclosure.

The evidence' in the afternoon was continued by Dr. Walter Gilmour, pathologist at the Auckland Public Hospital, who said he received from Dr. Williams on March 3 portions of a human body. These he had examined in . collaboration with Drs. Kenneth MacCormick. and Fowler. They consisted of pieces of bone showing various degrees of burning, with some pieces of flesh still present.

"From the fact that pieces of bone from practically all parts of thej human skeleton were found, I concluded that a whole human body had been burned," Dr. Gilmour added. "The degree of burning was very unequal. Some portions of the skull and shoulder were only slightly burnt, but others were completely incinerated. The severe degree of burning is consistent with the body having been wasted by disease and also having been drained of all fluid as a result of a post-mortem examination, but, even so, the severe degree of burning of some parts indicated they must have been exposed to very fierce heat. "As regards the sex of the body, no bones were found which were characteristic of either a male or a female. The muscular markings of the bones, however, were more suggestive of a male than a female. As regards age, the bones were definitely those of an adult. I conclude the bones were those of a middle-aged adult." Mr. Orr Walker: Of what age? Witness: All I can say is that it would not be less than 40. Nothing was found to indicate the cause of death, he added. The presence, however, of a wad of cotton wool adhering to the palate bone indicated that the body had been laid out after death preparatory to burial and that, therefore, the body must have been burnt after death. Dr. E. F. Fowler, pathologist, said that in company with Drs. Gilmour and MacCormick he had made an 'examination of the exhibits produced. He agreed with conclusions given in evidence by Dr. Gilmour. INSURANCE OFFICER'S EVIDENCE. John Hindmarsh, assistent general secretary to the Mutual Life and Citizens' Insurance Company, Ltd., Sydney, was next called. Before he gave evidence, both counsel, Mr. Terry and Mr. Sanderson, asked that their objections to such evidence should be noted. Witness said that on September 15, 1938, he received a proposal for insurance from Gordon Robert McKay. McKay was brought to witness by the general secretary of the company. Detective-Sergeant Nalder: Can you see McKay here?— Yes, he is the man I see in the dock. Particulars in the proposal form showed that McKay had been previously insured. On September 19 a life insurance policy for £25,500 was issued to the accused McKay by witness's company. This policy was still In force on February 12 last. Detective-Sergeant Nalder: Has your company received any written notification of the death of McKay?—Yes,. on February 16, from Dudley Westgarth and Company, solicitors, George Street, Sydney. Did that notification notify you of where, the death occurred? —It just said it was in Auckland. Mr. Orr Walker: I suppose it was just a formal one? —Yes. Detective-Sergeant Trethewey then produced a copy of the notification, which Mr. Terry perused. "The two accused are both well known to me," said Detective-Sergeant L. p.-A. Alford, detective-sergeant in the-New South Wales Police Force and officer in charge of detectives in Newcastle. McKay, he added, resided for many years in Burwood, Talbot living there, too. "They have always been engaged in various activities together for many years," he said. Detective-Sergeant John Trethewey said that in company with Detective Slater he interviewed Talbot on February 17 and took a statement from him. In the statement Talbot said that after arrival at Piha he drove back to Auckland alone. At that time McKay was feeling fine. Talbot's statement continued: "I came back to Auckland as I had an appointment with a young. lady. I do not know the name or address of this young lady. I do not know where she works. I met her the previous day in a fish shop opposite the Post Office. She was sitting at the same table as me when I went for a meal. I know her first name is Madge. That Saturday, February 11, I was to meet her at the Post Office at 8 p.m. I went to the Post Office, but she did not turn up. When I did not meet the young lady as arranged, I walked about the street for a while, and then drove back to Piha." Talbot said he knew McKay was insured, and he thought it was for a total of. £40,000. He knew one insurance was taken out just before McKay went to London. He knew also that McKay wore a signet ring with his initials on it. Talbot never saw. him with the ring off. He used to wear it while he was in bed. In his statement Talbot gave a description of the girl "Madge," whom, he said, he had arranged to meet. POLICE INVESTIGATIONS. After he had read Talbot's statement, Detective-Sergeant Trethewey described police investigations at length. At 5 a.m. on March 10 witness was present at the cemetery when the grave ~of Shine was opened. The lid on the casket was unfastened and would lift off the casket. The nameplate bore the lettering, "Patrick Henry Shine, died February 8, 1939,. aged 54. R.1.P." On top of the casket were two casket screws and on top of the grave among the clay was a piece of rope. The lid of the casket taken from Shine's grave contained no screws, and; when it was removed- itwas found that there was no body in the casket. ' \

At 9.45 that morning, witness saw TaLbot on the footpath. He spoke to

Talbot and asked him if he would , mind calling at the detective office : some time that morning for a talk and to see a ring that had been found in the debris in Piha. "He said, Tm doing nothing. I'll come with you now,'" witness added, "and he got into the car with Detective-Sergeant Alpin and myself. On the way to the detective, office he said, 'The newspapers are making it pretty hot. It is ridiculous, for anybody to think McKay is not dead.' He added that one paper had suggested McKay might have lost his memory. He said, 'That is all "hooey".' j How could his body have got into the bach?" Talbot identified the ring as McKay's. Witness then asked him if he knew a man named Patrick Henry Shine. "RECEIVED GREAT SHOCK." "He received a great shock and was dumbfounded," witness said. "After a lapse of more than a minute he said, 'No.' I said the body of a man named Patrick Henry Shine is missing from a grave in Waikumete Cemetery and we believe the bones found in Piha are those of Patrick Henry Shine. He received a further shock and said, 'I don't know anything about it. I know the remains in the bach in Piha are those of McKay. It is absurd to think they are not McKay's.'" Witness said he tried to converse on general topics with Talbot, but he would not take any notice. He sat almost as if in a trance. Detective Alpin came into the room with a warrant to arrest Talbot on a charge of improperly interfering with the dead human remains of Shine. When it was read to Talbot he slumped in his chair. After about a minute he said, "I know nothing about it." ' Cautioned by De-tective-Sergeant Alpin, he said, "I understand. I have nothing to say." He was then locked up. Detective Trethewey also described the arrest of McKay. On the evening of March 22 Detective Alpin and witness went to 29 Grafton Road and waited till 10.5 p.m., when a car bearing McKay and Mr. and Mrs. Jackson, of that address, arrived. Witness told McKay, who was wearing a beard, who they were, and, shining a torch in his face, satisfied himself the man was McKay.

"I said to him: 'You are Gordon Robert McKay. We have a warrant for your arrest on a charge of improperly interfering with the dead human remains of Patrick Henry Shine.' McKay said, 'I don't know what you are talking about. My name is Tom Bowlands. You are making a mistake. My name is not McKay.' I said, 'You are the man who was supposed to have been burnt to death in Piha on February 12, 1939.' He replied, 'My name is not McKay.' "Up to this time McKay was quite rational in every way. He walked with us to the detective office and on the way he changed his attitude and pretended to be silly. At the detective office I procured a warrant for McKay's arrest and read it over to him. He said, 'I don't know what you are talking about.' The warrant was read to him a second time, and he was locked up." Detective-Sergeant Frank Norman Alpin said that on February 16 he went to Piha to sieve the debris of the b_ch. He described the finding of a considerable quantity of burnt bones and other articles. Witness gave details of the course Which he and Defective Trethewey followed in their inquiries, much on the lines of the evidence given by Detective Trethewey, This completed the evidence for the prosecution. "I propose to commit both accused for trial," said the Magistrate, asking them if they desired to enter any plea. Both the accused pleaded not guilty, are were committed for trial lit the next sitting of the Supreme Court in Auckland in May.