P. AND T. SALARIES

Evening Post, Volume CIX, Issue 108, 9 May 1930, Page 10

P. AND T. SALARIES

INCREASES SOUGHT

"DIFFICULT TIME AHEAD"

MINISTER'S REPLY

Representations were made to the Government to-day in support of increased salaries for Post and Telegraph officers. In the clerical division it was asked that the maximum should be raised from £295 to £340 per annum, and in the general division an incroaso was sought of from £240 to £290.

Replying to the deputation, the Hon. W. G. Forbes (Actiug:Leader. of the Government) said lie would placo the requests before the Postmaster-General (Sir Joseph Ward) when ho saw him at Rotorua next week, arid an early reply would bo sent to the New. Zealand Post and Telegraph Employees' Association. In referring to the financial position, Mr. Forbes mentioned the fall in the price of New Zealand produce, :iud said tlilit the country had a difficult tiniu ahead.*

In the course of a general discussion the Miuister mentioned that some outsido business organisations were maintaining their staffs, but not without sacrifice, and there were many people who would like.to get into the Public Service. One of the difficulties was maintaining the Public Service in the face of very hard times.

In making the requests, Mr. B. H. Brown, president of the New Zealand P. and T. Employees' Association, referred to the. resolutions passed in the House of Representatives last session, recommending the Government to make an investigation into the salary question and to do all in its power to improve "conditions of the1 lower-paid officers. It had been announced that the salaries had been improved, but if what had been done was all, it was very disappointing to the service; and he could assure the Minister that the officers would not be satisfied with, that. During last session of Parliament the speaker and the Minister had dealt with the. salary question, going very fully into it, and the position now was that one of the least important matters had been met by providing for a salary for officers who were over 21 years of age. Mr. Brown recalled that in 1920 the Eeforrn Government'admitted that the maxima were too low by increasing the clerical division to £320 and the general division to £258, and at that time the cost of living was at the same point as it was to-day. Despite the fact that the cost-of-living figures were the same, despite the fact that the1 volume of work in the Department had increased greatly and that the men were more efficient, if anything, they were still nsked to accept the ; reduced maxima. It was contended by the-associa-tion that £240 was too low a salary on which to ask any man with a family to attempt to live comfortably, and also that the duties of the men were responsible and important enough to warrant a- higher salary. The association appreciated what had been done for their relief of some of the men, but they contended they had a right, in view of the motions passed by the House- last session, to expect something more from the Government. %

Mr. Brown referred to what had been said by other members of Cabinet prior to the Government coming into office, in, regard to sympathy with the-asso-ciation's claims. ...

In regard to the clerical division (men on £295), last year there was relief to a certain extent by raising 10 per cent, of the men to £-350, but that still left 90 per cent, at £295. Higher maxima had been asked for on the ground of increase in the importance of duties aud also on the economic position. Figures had been .given to the Government, and when the matter was discussed with Sir Joseph Wai-d he expressed his sympathy and said, that the Department should receive special treatment. The P. and T, Department was one of the largest, and its officers suffered from a much slower rate of progress in promotion when compared with other Departments in the Public Service. That meant that men retired on lower superannuation than they did in other Departments. " "Wo undoubtedly had the sympathy of Sir Joseph Ward'when we interviewed him'on this matter," said Mr. Brown, "aud we regret that the position is such that he cannot-meet us today. We are unable to get a definite answer from Mr. .M'Namara on the ground that he was not in a position to state what was proposed hi the future." '■~."'

The importance of the matter was stressed by-Mr. J. H.M'Keuzie, secretary of the association,. who said that the deputation, represented 8000 employees, and described & 240 as the bare bread and butter line. There were numbers on that salary who . had no prospects of getting any further. Where there were reasonable prospects of the man improving, his position,' then ;to stay for a short duration on such a salary would not be such a hardship, but When a man had to. maintain himself in decency on. that salary he thought the Minister would .recognise the unfairness of it. The improvements, he said, had affected the progress of the juniors, who, however, had not reached the stagnation point which effected so many men. Promises: had been made by the Government that the'previous maxima would bo restored when the country was "round !the corner;" Whatever the ease might be for the salary improvements of the other Departments, he claimed that the association had made a special claim for the P. and T. Department. .

MINISTER'S REPLY.

In reply, Mr. Forbes said .that'the representations would be conveyed to the Postmaster-Gcperal at Botorua. On the general position, the .deputation know as well as. the Government did, the country was is a difficult position at the'present tim#. With the fall in tho price of wool, dairy produce ha,ving dropped, we had a very, difficult time ahead, and the financial position of the country had to be taken into consideration. At this particular june: ture the position was not too' good for the future, and a drop in revenue might be expected. He had been asked to take the deputation and convey the representations to the PostmasterGeneral. He would do that. ;

Then there was the question of unemployment, which was a very big one, and a pressing one. The.drop in wool and produce must affect us, though it was hoped that it would be better than what was expected. Sometimes we managed to escape in.New Zealand the consequences of what they had in other countries, but there wasno doubt that we would be bound to feel the pinch. "While we would like to'do everything we possibly can in regard to the Public Service, it is air determined by what money :te have ■ available," said Mr. Forbes.' ■ ' .

VALUE OF SERVICE,

: In the course of further discussion, Mr. Brown pointed out that there had been times when the country had been in a very good position. , • "Wo have not had. that good fortune," renwrked Mr. Forbes. . .

Mr. Brown.said that the claims were based on the value of the service that was being rendered. It was hard for the P. and T. employees to bear the burden when times were bad and get nothing when, times were good. The Minister said that as far as the

Public Service was concerned there were hundreds of applications for positions. "Everybody wants to get into the Public Service," he said.

Mr. Brown: "You do not advance that, as an argument against us?"

The Minister said he did not, but ho would say that many people would like to get into the Public Service. In reply to further observations from Mr. Brown, tho Minister said that the Public Service and the condition of the country could not be separated.

Outside workers had access to the Arbitration Court, Mr. .Brown pointed out. Some did not get anything, but there had been cases ( when they had, despite the condition of the country.

Mr. Forbes said he did not know what view the Arbitration Court would take. Some ( ivere in a very difficult position at the present -trying to maintain their present staffs, and they were having to do it at considerable sacrifice. One of tho difficulties was maintaining the Public Service in the face of very hard times.

In the course of further discussion Mr. Brown said that it did not matter what the times were like; they always got the same answer.

A TELLING ARGUMENT,

Mr. Forbes suggested that tho deputation might have taken up the view that they wanted to help the Government, and they would not ask for anything till times got bettor. "It would have been a pretty telling argument' when times did get better," he added:

■ "Our experience has not been as fortunate as that," Mr. Brown replied. During the war, ho said, they had refrained from asking for an increase for some considerable time, and when they found that everybody else was getting, increases, whereas they were getting only a small bonus, they were forced to ask for an increase, and they had to fight very hard to get anything; and nothing was taken of their forbearance before. "You are asking us to pledgo that till times get better. .....?"

Mr. Forbes: "There is no pledge about it." He said ho had just been putting that position. He did not blame the deputation for trying to improve positions in regard to the service. But there were times when they might say, "Are we going to make any progress? We might approach it in another way. We know tho position of the country." When people read in the papers that the P. and T. Service comes along and asks for an increase they say "By Jove, we are concerned if we can hold our present positions and our salaries. That docs not affect the Public Service."

Mr. Brown replied that there were quite a number of assured positions: the banks.

Mr. Forbes remarked that if the banking business fell off and they got bad times they would probably do some reducing. Mr. Brown: "My experience'is that the banks do better in bad times than they do in good times." He added that the association was not really asking for an increase, but for a restoration.

The Minister said he understood that; it would mean an increase as regards cost. ' >