VOTING SYSTEMS

Evening Post, Volume CIV, Issue 24, 28 July 1927, Page 13

VOTING SYSTEMS

TAKING OF REFERENDA

STATING A PREFERENCE

The Preferential Voting Bill, fathered by Mr. J. M'Combs (Lyttelton), was discussed in the House of Eepresentatives last evening. The Bill proposed that in all referenda in which three or more issues were placed before the people voting should be on the preferential system.

Moving the second reading, Mr. M'Combs remarked that the history of preferential voting in the New Zealand Parliament was singularly interesting, and he proceeded to review the efforts which had been made to plaee^ihe system on the Statute Book. The 'latest Bill introduced was that by the late Mr. Massey, and for the purposes of the present Bill he had embodied the principles contained in Mr. Massey's Bill in his measure. Mr. M' Combs said that his Bill did not deal with the election of members of Parliament, but dealt solely with referenda, in which more than two issues were placed before the electors.

Mr. W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne) asked if the Labour, Party did not still favour preferential voting in the election of members of Parliament.

Mr. M' Combs stated that the Labour Party stood for majority rule, which could not be brought about under the present system: At the present time his Bill would only apply to the licensing issue, although that fact was not specifically mentioned in his measure.Mr. P. Fraser (Wellington Central) said he believed the Bill would . commend itself to the goodwill of the House. He referred to the perplexity in the minds of many people in regard to the three-issue ballot paper on the licensing question. Preferential voting ensured the will of the majority of the voters being reflected on any issue that was submitted. The proposals in the Bill solved the difficulty, giving those who favoured State Control to express their opinion and then to have their second preferences made nse of. He could not see what real arguments could be raised against the system proposed. It was proposed to be applied to all referendum questions, the most striking of which was, of course, the licensing issue. .-" TRIED AND FOUND WANTING. Mr. W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne) said that the preferential voting system had been tried and found wanting. The system did away with independent judgment, which was so vital in matters of public interest and importance. It seemed evident that, in framing the measure, Mr. M'Combs had tho licensing issue in mind. Mr. Lysnar said that preferential voting was altogether too complicated.

"The member for Gisborne is certainly a very remarkable man," said Mr. D. G. Sullivan (Avon), in criticising Mr. Lysuar's references to the Bill. Mr. Sullivan suggested that the Government might take the Bill up and put it through the House. All the Bill proposed to do, said Mr. IT. T. Armstrong, was to ensure that there would bo a fair vote on all issues placed beforo tho peoplo. Because tho nrst-piist-the-post system had been in vogue in New Zealand for years, it was no reason why it should remain in vogue for over. Preferential voting had been tried in other countries, and so far as ho knew, not one country had gone back on it.

Mr. F. Bartram (Grey Lynn) submitted that Mr. M' Combs's proposal would give effect to the wishes of the people. Mr. G. Forbes (Hurunui) referred to tho various systems of voting that had been tried in New Zealand, and said lie could not understand why tho Labour members did not want preferential voting applied to Genoral Elections, as was tho caso in Australia. Tho Labour membors advocated "ono votb one value," but what about tho country quota? Mr. Forbes said he was considerably interested in seeing that that was waived.

Mr.R. M'Keen stressed the value ofthe Bill from the democratic point of view. If Mr. Forbes had perused the Bill he would not havo asked about the country quota. That had nothing whatever to do with tho matter. Replying to tiie discussion, Mr. M'Combs said the Bill was not a hardy annual, and it did not affect the country quota in any way. If a two-issue ballot paper was provided for on tho licensing issue, tho Bill, if passed would not apply; it would only apply mi CaSC oi threo-issuo referenda. The second reading wns defeated by 44 votes to 20, the division list being as follows:— s

_ Ayes (20): Armstrong, Bartram, Bell"n8er, .Forbes, Fraser, H. Holland, H. L Holland, Horn, Jordan, J. A. Lee M< Combs, M'Keen, H. G. R. Mason larry, Ransom, F. J. Rolleston, Savage, Sullivan, Veitcli, Young. Noes (44): Anderson, Bell, Bitchener, Bollard, Buddo, Coates, Dickie J S. Dickson, Eliot, Field, Forsyth, CHi-1-ing, Glenn, A. Hamilton, J. R, Hamilton Harris, Hawken, Honaro, Hockly, Hudson, Hunter, D. Jones, W. Jones, LinkInter, Luko, Lysnar, M'Lcnnan, M'Leod, Macnullan, J. Mason, Nnsh, Nosworthv Pom.ire, Heid, Rhodes, J. C. Rolleston' Samuel, Smith, Sykes, Waite, Waltor Wilford, Williams, Wright.