THE ESTIMATES.

Evening Post, Volume LXXVI, Issue 45, 21 August 1908, Page 2

THE ESTIMATES.

MONEY VOTED. ,

! NATIVE AFFAIRS. ! TEE APPELLATE COURTS. CHANGES PROPOSED. | After disposing of Local Bills yesterday afternoon, the House of Representatives went into Committee of Supply for the consideration of the General Estimates. PRINTING OFFICE. The first class taken was Printing and Stationery Department, total vote £46,270Mr. Herries complained that the new system of printiug all the electoral rolls at the Government Printing Office was not as good as the old system. It would, he urged, lead to delay, to difficulties arising through many people having to be struck off the main roll, and to the undue swelling of the supplementary rolls. The Minister in charge of the department (Hon. W. Hall-Jones) was understood to state that if any block had occurred in the Printing Office it was due to a great extent to the fact that the Consolidated Statutes were being got out of hand. The system in vogue was such as to get the work done in the shortest possible time. Regarding t,he printing of the main roll, Mr. Aitken said that last week the schoolmaster at a Wellington suburb told him that since Christmas last thirty-three per cent, of the children had changed their places of abode. "I never saw such a bungle in my life," said Mr. Witty, in urging that the rolls contain hundreds of names of people who should not be there, and do not contain hundreds of names cf people who ought to be there. Mr. Lang urged a reversion to the old system of striking off the names of people who do not exercise the franchise. The Minister said that the' points just made concerned the Electoral Department, and not the Printing Office. The Premier said that the law required tho main rolls to be printed at the Government Printing Office ; • the supplementary rolls were printed in the various electorates. No one was struck off the rolls -for not voting, but the main rolls were corrected right up to i the date of their issue by the various registrars. Under this system the main rolls were issued about two months earlier than they had been issued under the old system, and an opportunity was given of finding who was not on and who should not be on, and making up a complete supplementary roll. Ho thought that under this system tho rolls should be as complete as it was possible to have them. The police would be utilised for the purpose of assisting people to get on the roll who had a right to and desired to be there. | The vote was passed" without alteration. STAMP AND DEEDS. . Stamp and Deeds Department, total vote £38,391, passed without alteration. NATIVE DEPARTMENT. Total vote, £28,222. Mr. Major urged that a native hostelry should be established at Hawera. The Minister said he would not like to sco Maoris concentrated in European towns, or give them any encouragement to so concentrate. Ho was prepared to make arrangements for an addition to the Hawera Hospital for the accommodation of sick Maoris. Mr. J. Allen urged that not half enough was being done for the natives and for the opening up of native lands, and that tho Government should have given members a more active leatl on the subject. He regarded the present position as unsatisfactory. Mr. J. Allen wanted to know what, the Under-Secretary of the department was doing for his salary. j The Minister : He is carrying out the j duties entailed upon him in his position as Under-Secretary. (Laughter.) Mr. Herries moved to reduce the vote i by £1, so as to give opportunity for further discussion. He believed thattb© officers of the department could da very much better -work if they wer« given tat opportunity Mr. J. Allen said this- portion of tha department only came into existence some four or five years ago, and tho House was entitled to details. Had it, he a&kcd, anything to do with the purchase of native lands or the question of lfynd titles? He did not believe that the

country was getting good value for its money in this respect, or that the Maoris were getting the treatment that they should get. Tho Minister said that the department compared favourably with other departments. During the last year the Native Land Court Judges had heard 6261 cases in the Wellington district, 6222 in Auckland, and 1975 in Gieborne, fi. total of over 14,000. Tho appropriation for the Native Land Court (£6500) brought Mr. Baume to his feet. He said he did not wish to say the courts gave wrong decisions, but there was a teeling throughout the country that the courts ought to be reorganised on the lines of the ordinary judicature. The judges theoretically were supposed to be creatures of the Government of the day. He had no intention of making any allegations, but it would be well to have a Supreme Court ( Judge at the head of the Native Land Courts. A Judge of the latter was liable to removal at any time. There should be no room for doubt in any direction as to the performance of the work. The Minister replied that the present constitution of the courts was the best. Maoris could not be carted hundreds of miles to the cities in order that their crises might be dealt with by a judge Hp had yet to learn of one practical objection to the present constitution. The Judges were doing a very large amount of work and were doing it very satisfactorily. He questioned whether the work, if done by the Supreme Court, would be as effective as was the case under existing conditions. Mr. Parata considered that not enough money was spent\on the department, considering the great amount of work that it had to do. iL M^T ferries considered that Judges of the Native Land Court should be placed ra a higher position than they at present occupy. r Mr. Ngata agreed that there should be an increase in the status of the ftAtive Land Court Judges.- There was not a sufficient number of Judges There were yet 420,000 acres of land U? be dealt with, and this included some of the finest virgin land in New Zealand. After further discussion the Alinister gid that if it was the desire of the House he would make an endeavour to have the salary of the Chief Judge raised (this with a broad smile). The courts had last year heard and settled 14 700 cases for a cost of £17,000. Rebates of fees amounted to £14,507, leaving a net cost of £2493. Ho challenged any other department to compare with this. The salaries of the Judges might be higher, out he repelled any insinuation that tho court might be induced to carry out v-ork in one district while work ahead m other places was allowed to languish. Mr. J. Allen also urged an increase of salaries. Appointments had been made which were not justified. Mr. Ngata, speaking , again, epitomised the requirements he thought necessary thus— more money, more judges, better buildings. The department wanted an increased vote of £2500 I here was a lack of system in the arrangement of the courts. Circuit sittings might be attempted. There was at least twenty years' work before the Native Land Courts. The Papatipu lands would take five years to deal with, and the work of making tribal lands sub-tribal lands, sub-tribal lands, into family holdings, and family holdings into individual titles, would take at least fifteen or twenty years. The Minister, in a further reference to the work of the courts, said it might be necessary to do away with Native Appellate Courts. It would be better to go back to the old system of re-hear-ing and review by tho Chief Judge. More work would be done. Mr. Field said he was sure nearly every member of the House would approve a proposal to increase the salaries of Native Land Court Judges. He urged that a proper building for housing the records of the Native Land Court should be provided. If a fire occurred nearly all the records would be lost. The Minister said it had been agreed to have a strong room erected for the purpose referred to. A scheme was before the Public Works Department, la answer to Mr. Herries, Mr. Carroll said he _ proposed to institute some changes in the working of Maori Land Boards. He intended to make presidents sub-commissioners under the Courts, so that they might deal with successions, and, in certain localities, perhaps, with matters relating to partitions. This would relieve the courts of a great deal of work. By the end of January, when the Native Land Commission would have finished its work, he expected to have one and a half million acres for settlement. Since 1900 up to the present time 1,404,542 acres of native land had been made available for settlement. MAORI COUNCILS. 1 .Referring to the subject of Maori Councils, Mr. Ngata urged that the sub6idy should De increased. • At present it was only £400, and was not in any vay sufficient, not enough to pay members' travelling expenses, seeing that some of the members had to ride as much as sixty miles. Replying to other remarks the Native Minister expressed high appreciation of the excellent work done by the Maori Councils. He would do what he could to increase the subsidy to those councils. Mr. Field complained that in his district (Otaki) the Maori Councils did not collect the dog tax, and the dogs did a gaeat deal of harm among the sheep and lambs. The Minister said it was his intention to take power to see that the dog tax was collected — if not by the Maori Council, then by the European. " I've heard a rumour that the Imperial Government pays a certain amount of money for some native purpose," said Mr. J. Allen. "No," replied the Minister. The vote for the class passed unaltered. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. The next class taken was Justice Depfrtment, total vote £148,957. In regard to the Cook Islands, the annual report regarding which has not yet been presented, the Minister (Hon. J. M'Gowan) said he would welcome a discussion on the subject. Several members urged that there should be more direct communication between New Zealand and Rarotonga than exists at present, and that a fruit inspector should be appointed in connection with ' the trade. The Minister said he would be pleased to see fruit from the Cook Islands coming to every port, but the cost of a direct connection would be more than the trade was worth? As to inspection/ an official from the Agricultural Department was goipg to the Islands to report on the subject. Mr. Witty complained that no sum had been put on the Estimates for Mr. Jolliffe, for the work he had done in connection with the consolidating of the statutes. This view was upheld by Mr. Davey, who strenuously urged that the services of Mr. Jolliffe in that work should be recognised. Mr. Buddo took the same view, and considered that there should be put on the Supplementary Estimates a tangible rrark of esteem. PRISONS. When, tho Prisons vote came on for review Mr. WUford mado reference to the condition of th» cells below the Supreme Court at Wellington. The Minister Said he had never seen them, but he was willing to have a i look at them. 1 The vote gassed unaltered at 1 a.m.