THE ESTIMATES.

Evening Post, Volume LXXII, Issue 66, 15 September 1906, Page 9

THE ESTIMATES.

c THE RAILWAY DEPARTMENT. PROCESSION OF GRIEVANCES. TROUBLE WITH- THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES. A RULING QUESTIONED. > The House trent into committee to consider tho Estimates at 3.30 o'clock yesterday afternoon. Last Friday the committee passed the first five classes of the Estimates, and took up its work yesterday at class six. Working Railways Department, £1,750,000 (£1,620,239 was the amount expended by thß department during 1905-6. In the discussions upoa. this section of the Estimates no particular item was attacked, but members freely took advantage of the opportunity to air local grievances to impress upon the Minister in charge (Hon. W. Hall-Jones) the needs of their communities, and to ask for more facilities in the service. The matter thar, loomed largest' isn the blockade of the Minister was the unsatisfactory status of the already muchdiscussed pernnnent - casual. Member aiter member mado this subject the topio of debate, until the Minister cried "Enough!" and urged members not to repeat one another's arguments. A group of members on both sides of the House 1 were agreed that the position of the "casual" who had been over seven or ten years in the service should bo improved. The Minister agreed that a man who had held his billet in the ssrvjee ior that length of time most have proved himself good enough to be placed upon the permanent list. He would make the condition of the '"casual" his special care in the future, and intimated that .he would shortly bring in an amending Classification Bill which would classify those men who were graded last year " The Minister did not agree with the numerous critics who had declared during the afternoon , that there was dissatisfaction in the service. He knew the railway men and other workers of the colony, and he know that they were not the men to be afraid of giving free expression to their grievances. If membeis would let him know of any injustices that were b?ing dono_ in the service he would see that the injustice was removed." He would make himself familiar with the working of his new department, and would see that all its interests received careM attention. The railway estimates were again under discussion when the House resumed at 7.30 o'clock. EVENING SITTING. ' The House resumed at 7.30, when the discussion on the railway vote was continued. In the general discussion, Mr. Hogan, Wanganui, was prominent with a complaint about the pay of the labourers in the railway service, and he also con--demned the method of dealing with "casuals." He illustrated his case with actual occurrences from his own district. The long procession of complaints was varied by. Mr. A. W. RutherfoTd, Hurunui, who bore testimony to the excellent way in .which the railways were managed nn his district. When he had. complaints to make or faults to point out he werit to the Minister and did not bother the House with his grievances. "We should," 'he- said, "get on w^th this great land question." "Hear, hear," was the fervent .rejoinder of several members. At 8.45 p.m. the vote wa3 passed. Public buildings, domains, and roads, £64,437 (£29,022). The vote passed unaltered." Printing and Stationery Department, £41,888 (£43,792). This vote, also, was passed unaltered. Stamp and Deeds Department, £33,564 (£31,097) The Stamp Department's vote was £10,053, and Lands and Deeds Registry, £23,511. In answer to Mr. Aitken, the Hpn. Mr. Carroll said it was intended to i equip the department with new printing j machinery to the value of £1235. The Stamp Department's vote was passed unaltered. On the' second portion of the vote, Mr. Baume moved as an amendment that the first item — District Land Registrar, Registrar of J'eeds. Deputy Commissioner of Stamps, and Examiner of Titles, £550 — be reduced by £1, with the object of getting an indication from the House that the Lands and Deeds Registiy Department should be under tie control of tbo Minister of Justice. The amendment was lost on the voices. The vote was passed unaltered. _Native Department, £13,867 (£35,3o8). On the item Native Department, £2145, being put, Mr. Ngata complained that the officials of tho Nativo Department were the lowest paid of all the departments. Some brief criticism of the department was also indulged in by Messrs. Massey, Baumn, and Herries, and the item passed unaltered. Other sections of the total vote were • —£13,412 for the Native Land Court and Maori Lands Administration, £1090 for Maori Councils, and £2220 for miscellaneous services. i Mr. Herries protend against any person connected with Maoris by mar riage or by descent sitting as members of Native Land Boaidb. Although he named Colonel Porter, he did not desire to make an invidious distinction in regard to that gentleman, for there were others. Mr. Remington complained of the way native land was allowed to lie idle, while /the Native Department did nothing. In reply to these and othei criticisms, the Minister said that 70,000 acres of land had been purchased ill the Wanganui district } hut it could not oe expected that land purchased one year could be cut up, roaded, and thrown open ior settlement the next. Mr. Ngata emphasised that unless there was proper administration thero would be very little chance of nativo land going on the market this year. The^ natives claimed tho right to have efficient orfirers ami efficient judges tt» detfrinine their titles. Mr. A. L I>. Frnser: The Minister has stated that 70,000 ceres of native land has been purchased. Will he inform me if that land was purchased under the Maori Lands for Settlement Act? Mr. Carroll: Yes. 3lr. Frascr: Very well; and what does tho Native Lands for Settlement Act provide? The Chairman : You discuss that question. Mr. Fraser : Am Ito understand that I cannot diccuss a matter that comes tinder the jurisdiction of these Maoii Land Councils? The Chairman : I have already ruled. Mr. Fraser. I cannot discuss the quotum? Tho Chairman : I havo already ruied. Mr. Fraser: Then I think it is time some of your rulinjrs were disputed. The Chairman : The hon. gentleman will withdraw that remark, Mr. Fracor: I withdraw, but I will bring it up in another way. More trouble occurred a few minutes later. Last year an item of £20,000 was voted for forming road*, etc., on lands purchased under the Maori Land

Settlement Act. None of the money was shown as having been expended, and Mr. Baume desired to know if any of it had been spent on the 70,000 acres referred to by tho Native Minister. Tho Chairman stated that the committee had to do with this year's appropriations only, and Mr. Baume resumed his seat. The point, however, was pursued by the Leader ol the Opposition, and when tho Chairman persisted in his ruling, Mr. Maasey moved to report progress in order that Mr. Speaker might be consulted on the ruling given by Mr. M'Kenzic. Th-e motion to report iirogress was carried by 28 votes to 24, the division list being as follows: — Ayes (28) : Aitken, Allen, Arnold, Baibcr, Baume, Bollard, Dillon, Fisher, A. L. D. Frasor, W. Fraser, Graham, Gray, Hall, Heke, Herrics, Jennings, j Kirkbnde, M*Lachlan, Massey, Ngata, Parato, Poole, Remington, Rhodes, Stallworthy, Symes, Tanner, Wilford. Noes (24): E. G Alleu Bennett, Colvin. D.ivey, Duncan, Field, Flatman, Fowlds, Greerslade, Hall-Jones, Hogan, Hornsby, Kidd, Laurenson, Lawry, M'Gowan, M'Nab, Millar, Poland, Ross, Secldon, Sidey, Ward, Wood. Mr. Speaker was called in. In the. explanations which followed, Mr. Baurae explained that he had no desire to discuss the question <tf the amount voted last year. He merely desired to ask a question. Mr. Speaker ruled that the Chairman's ruling with regard to not allowing a debate was right, but his ruling in not allowing a member to ask a question about a previous vote was contrary to tho practice that had been in force fo* some years. After this skirmisn, the House again resolved itself into committee, and adjourned immediately.