POLICE COMMISSION.

Evening Post, Volume LXX, Issue 39, 15 August 1905, Page 7

POLICE COMMISSION.

OVERWORKED OFFICERS,

INSUFFICIENT ACCOMMODATION.

ALLEGED PREFERENCE TO ROMAN

CATHOLICS.

The Police Commission, consisting of Messrs. H. W. Bishop, S.M., and J. W. Poynton, Public Trustee, resumed its sitting in the Magistrate's Court BuHdings after we went to press yesterday, - (

Mr. Dinnie, Commissioner of Police, represented the police force.

Sub-Inspector O'Donovan traced his career in the force since 1879. He found the duties of Sub-Inspector at Wellington heavy. Commencing work at 8.20, he worked until 9.30 and 11 o'clock at night, having intervals for dinner and tea. He attended to correspondence when he first called at the office, and to the police cases' in the Magistrate's Court at 10 o'clock. Occasionally he was engaged in tho Court all day. The heavy days usually occurred on Mondays and Fridays. When he returned from Court ho attended to callers and correspondence, which was of a voluminous nature. If a. station sergeant was appointed, a portion of the Sub-In-spector's work could bo relegated to him, for instance, supervision of the prisoners in the lock-up and receiving complaints He considered a Sub -Inspector's proper duty was to prosecute in police cases in Court, and to exercise control of the men not only in. the city but of men in the. outbtations, which he said should be visited each day. He considered a station sergeant and a night sergeant should be appointed. Questioned with regard to the officera under his charge, he said two of the sergeants — Hastie and lUitledge — were jusfc the men they needed ; thorough disciplinarians. Sergt. Lyons was the third officer, and witness had npb had much experience of him. Witness* referred to accommodation, and said he paid a quarter of his Salary ia house vent. He got an allowance of £36 a year for rent, but paid £72. He was compelled to pay this in order to secure a house within, easy distance of the station. There was insufficient station accommodation, and he emphasised the necessity for an additional story at Lambton-quay, and an extension of the Mount Cook Police Station. There had been no thieving in tho force during the time that he had been a Sub-Inspec-tor. The only case of theft to his knowledge occurred in 1884, when a policeman was found after a fire with a parcel of gloves in his pocket. He was promptly dismissed for his conduct.

Questioned by Commissionei' Dinnio as to instiucting constables regarding evidence, the witness said the instruction was given to them at the Mount Cooi; training depot. He had seen on several occasions that the men had not stood at attention in the witness box, and had sometimes directed their attention to it.

Mr. Bishop : There is a tremendous amount of slovenliness on the part of constables in the witness boxes throughout the whole colony. It is too much trouble for many of them to stnnd up. Tho Commissioner proceeded to examine the witness about house accommodation; The witness compared the sub-inspectors at Dunedin and Christchurch with himself, and said owing to house rent ho had lost at least £100 in three years. He had refrained from complaining, because tho authorities might shift him in order to got over tile difficulty. This would- have meant a serious thing to him, because tho uiembers of his family were employed here, and probably would have to give up thoir employment if he wore shifted.

Questioned by Inspector Ellison, the' witness said he was aware that the Inspoctor had brought the question of the Sub-Inspoctor's house accommodation before the department. Witness had to live near the station on account of pressure of business. He could safely say that noither himself nor the' Inspector were ever free from duties. They were liable ,to be called at any timo.

Inspector Ellison : I think the Inspector and Sub-Inspector in Wellington get on Tory well.

Witness : Yes, sir, we get on very well. ~ ■•

Mr. Bishop : It is quite refreshing to find some people getting on together. Tho witness explained that friction might easily arise between the Sub-In-spector and the Inspector with the amount of business they had to attend to. Mr. Bishop: You haven't time to quarrel.

George Hastie, sergeant at Wellington, said a &ergeant on night duty in Wellington had to look after twelve men and the rt'atchhouse. The night sergeant rode round on a bicycle, which he had to find himself. If it was not for the bicycle he would not be able to carry out his dnties. The work was so heavy that, according to report of predecessors, a sergeant was "knocked out" in Wellington in three years. He lived a mile away from the Btation and had to pay 18s a week in house rent. His allowance was 10s 6d a week. Witness was only promoted to the rank of sergeant fiomo eight months ago. Prior to that ho wag in charge of the station at Pabiatua. The promotion meant sixpence a day advance in salary, bub in reality a shilling a day worse off and more work to do.

Sergeant Douglas Gordon, of the Mount Cook Training Depot, said the men under him usually numbered from seven to thirteen. The majority of men who, entered tho depot were deficient in educational attainments. He produced specimens showing the average educational ability of probationers, and elicited an expression of surprise from the Commissioners. He got some good men to train, in fact he was /surprised to think that he got so many good men, considering the prosperous condition of tho colony. lie recommended that a man shuld bo required to pass a fifth standard educational lest before entering tho depot. All tho men were supposed to have passed the fourth standard. In reality some of the men could not pass the second Btandard.' Witness had to teach them when they entered the depot. He hnd nothing to do with the men until they were placed under him for instruction. lie thought an educationally superior clnss of men could be secured if the rate of pay was increased.

To liwpcctor Ellison : Witness naid some men dpficient in educational attainments had made really good constables. Sergeant llufcleage, lately in charge of Mannerp-street station, in thr course of his evidence, referred to tbo rent question. He said he was recently appointed sergeant, a rank which took him eighteen years to attain. The promotion meant an increase in salary of sixpence per day, but placed him out of pocket owing to having to pay £1 a. week house rent. Some of the married constables could hardly pay their way simply owing to the rent question. In fact, ho had known of some constables being in debt. CunHttble Murphy and Detective Lewis, until recently a constable, gave evidence about visits from sergeants. Constable Simpson, stationed at Thorndon, said certain members of the force had a grievance, inasmuch ne undue preference- was given to Roman Catholics throughout the colony when appointments of Inspectors and Sub-Inspectora were being made. , Mr. Bwhop : Thafc v a, very, aerious al<

legation, 'I hope you have thought it out.

Witness: I will give you facts and figures. Continuing, he said in 1878 there were 311> Piotestants and 222 Roman Catholics ik the .force. Out of tho 311 Protestants only two had been appointed to the ofiuo he referred to, whilst out of the 222 Bomin Catholics there had been seven appointments. That, he said, was an undue pixrnoytion to give any denomination.

Mr. Poynton: Sipposing they are qualified. Witness : Well it spwks badly for the brains of the Protestants. Mr. Poynton, in explaining why it was that there were so many Roman Catholics in the force, said, practically speaking, there were no manufactories in Ireland' and Irishmen, who mighk have superior intelligence, coming out here without a trade, drifted either into the police force or hotelkeeping. Continuing, he asMfcd, "Can you give us anything since 1878." Witness spoko of a man of no special ability having been appointed a sergeant in 1903. Subsequently he turned a Roman Catholic, and he was now a SubIn&pector. Mr. Poynton asked the' witness if he had anything to connect the' two things. The witness inferred that the man turned Roman Catholic because he thought he would have better chances of promotion. Continuing, he stated a, fair proportion of the appointments should be made from Prot«stants.

Mr. Poynton— Wouldn't you say that the best man should be appointed irrespective of denomination?

The witness replied "Yes," but could not see that the CaUiolias he referred to had superior qualifications to Protestants. On being asked to supply facts in sup-i port of his allegation, the -witness said that in 1896 and 1897 Messrs. Cullen and Pratt were appointed; in 1899 Messrs Ellison and Gillies (Protestants) were appointed; in 1900 Messrs. O'Brien and Macdonnell were appointed; and in 1902 Messrs. Kiely, Wilson, and Mjtcheil were appointed. Of these two were Protestants and five were Roman Catholics. He did not aay they had not ability ; in fact they were good men. * * Mr. Bishop explained that these deductions were certainly not in accordance with facts, and asked, "Do you think there are men more qualified than the^ Catholics you have mentioned?" The witness said he did not know anything of the extreme North or the extreme South. He went on to say that the pay of 7s a day made to constables was too small.

lo Mr. Dinnie the witness stated that he had made no representations to him as Commissioner about the preference question, because he knew that the Commission was coming round, and he thought this the proper place to report the matter. He had no grievance himself. He applied for promotion, but it was not given. He was in Taranaki at the time. He was transferred from Taranaki to Thorndon. There was a reason for the transfer. He was not dissatisfied with his position. He was well pleased where ho was. None of the Wellington constables had told him of tho alleged ■ grievance. He had heard men m Canterbury and Taranaki speaking, about the subject. There had been no appointments since Mr. Dinnie had been here.

Witness stated that he had been in the force since 1879, and was questioned by Sub-Inspector O'Donovan on the subject of the religion of the officers since that time.

Sub-Inspector O'Donovan — Do you know what led up to my appointment? Witness — No.

Mr. Poynton— Perhaps Sub-Inspector O Donovan does not like to say it, but his passing a solicitor's examination was one of tho qualifications which, led up to his appointment. Witness: I have known him manyyears, and I am satisfied he is well qualified to be Sub-Inspector. ' * Mr. Poynton stated that there was an idea at. one time that preference was given to Catholics in the service of the New South Wales Government, but the impression was proved to bo wrong. Sub-Inspector O'Donovan: I ask you to call upon Mr. Dinnie to furnish a report from tho beginning Air. Poynton: Yes, I recognise it is a serious matter.

Mr. Bishop said personally ho deplored very much raising this question. Ib was a matter he had no sympathy with at all. But if thesß feelings did exist, and men had the courage to come forward and speak about ( them, then he believed with Mr. Poynton that it was in the interests of the service that tho facts should be fully thrashed out, tind if actual figures showed that there were no grounds for the allegation, then those figures should be made as public as possible. Mr. Dinnie asked how far he should go back, and Sub-Inspector O'Donovan suggested to 1870.

Mr. Bishop said he lmd been for thirty-three years in the public service, twenty-five years as a Magistrate, and had been brought into contact with all conditions of policemen from the extreme North to the Bluff. He had experience with both Roman Catholics and Protestants, and he had found that the officers of one denomination were in no way superior to the officers of another denomination. All had discharged their duty to 'the best of their ability, ne would be surprised to hear that in democratic New ' Zealand preference was given to one religious body more than the other, and he would be pleased if Mr. Dinnie would show by figur.es that there was no ground for the allegation. The Commission nt this stage adjourned at 5.15 p.m. until next morning.