HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Evening Post, Volume L, Issue 45, 21 August 1895, Page 4

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Yiitbbdjlt'b Ajtbbnoon Sitting, thi bank question. The dieoussion on the Bunk question -was continued after we went to presß. The Premier said that they had to avoid in this Committee two things— Party, or any one going on to the Committee who 'was biased. (Laughter.) Ab to the objectfou that Auckland was not sufficiently represented, all the trouble took place in Auckland. Home of the new additions represented the working classes. Mr. T. Maokenzie said the Premier should have selected men best qualified for) the work, and the Government nominations iv both Houbbb were not the best men available: Mr. G. J. Smith said the oommeroial classes were not represented on the Committee, (l'he Premier— "What about the Treasurer and Mews. Bowen and Stevens?) Mr. T. Thompson resented the Premier's remark as to Auokland. The assets in Auckland would realise as good a proportion as any other. The Premier said he did not refer to the Auckland people, but to the old directors. Mr. Collins objected to the exclusion of Canterbury representation from the Committee. Mr. Earnsbaw said one of the three members proposed was biased in favour of amalgamation of the Colonial Bank and the Bank of Naw Zealand. Mr. Kelly moved to strike out Mr. Millar's name, with a view to inserting that of Mr. Bobsrt Thompson. Mr. Pinkerton denied that he wbb biased in favour of amalgamation. Mr. Earnsbaw said his reference was nol to Mr. Pinkerton. Mr. Muslin said the Committee was evidently to consist largely of men incapable of grappling with the subieot. Ostensibly that the secret might be better kept, they were adding to the number to keep it. (Laughter.) The Premier, who was espeoially astute, admitted having been deceived, and the members proposed ware not less likely to be deceived. The Committee was quite large enough. Mr.* Allen said that the Committee should consist of the best intelleot of the House, •part from territorial considerations. Mr. Fraser disclaimed any bias whatever, or any knowledge that he was to be nominated for the Committee. > Mr. M'Gowan considered that the evidence as to the E'Btates Company should not bt seoret. Captain Buisell said that it was abso lntely necessary that the evidence of witnesses should be ceareb. There should not be territorial consideration in the appoint ment of members. ' The Premier said that the Government had kept entirely clear of tho amalgamatioi question in forming the Committee. Tbi bogey was raised by those interested in th< foreign Banks. As to the Assets Company it was intimately concerned with the Bank and there were various negotiations goinf on as* regarded the properties, and it wai neoessary that theße and suoh things shouh he treated with confidence. Tho Committei were the best men available. As to altering the Committee, there must be very stron) grounds to justify the striking out of om - name for the substitution of another. Afte: the statements made by Mr. E. Thompsoi this year and last year, it was evident tha he would go to the Committee biased. Hi asked the House to agree to the names sub mitted by him, and let the Committee get ti work. He was opposed to an amalgamation and it wag not part of the order of refer ence to the Committee. They were boun< to increase the number of the Committee, a the nnmber of the Connoil Committee hai been added to. Mr.;M'£aohlan considered Canterbury was most ably represented by the Hon Messrs. Stevens and Bowen. The Premie; should have stuck to the original Committee Mr. Bnddo, Mr. Duthie, and others ob jected to separate votes not being taken ai to seoreoy and as to the additions to thi Committee. The Premier said personally he considered the Committee large enough, bnfc a largi section of the Honse voted for the motion 01 Friday on a promise from him that he wonl< move to increase the number. 'Jho Com mittee considered it should be enlarged.Mr. Pirani considered the Premier t< blame for the continuance of the debate. Mr. Heke considered the direotors am officers of the Bank much more capable o investigating and deviling remedies thai any Committee of the House. % Mr. J. W: Kelly's amendment to Btrik out the name of Mr. Millar was lost by 2 to 24. Mr. Guinness asked if the Committe could be elected by ballot. The Speaker ruled against this. Mr. W. Kelly desired to add Mr. Mere dith's name to the Committee, but with drew the proposal on Mr. Meredith declin ing to stand and the Premier pointing on that it would create further difficulty if th Committee were made larger than that o the Upper Honse. The motion to add Messrs. Millar, Pinker ton', and Fraser to the Committee was thei carried by 29 to 25. Mr. Bell said he wonld not accept an; conclusion of any Committee unless arrivei at by Mb own mind and he had evidence t judge from. The Committee muctgiveth evidenoe upon which it arrived at its con elusion. It must not divulge anythini whioh wonid affeot private individuals o private affairs, but there must be no fals delicacy in divulging anything elee.whethe it was calculated to injure the Bank or not He would vote againßt any resolutioi brought down by the Committee unlees witl it was the evidence. (Applause.) Hewonli not delegate to anyone the con£<tence re posed by hii constituents in- him. (Hear hear.) The adoption of tie' report of the Com mittee miking i* secret was carried on tbi voices, together with the 'Premier's motioi to add Messrs. Pinkerton, Millar, an< Fnuer. ", THX FINANCIAL DBBATI. Mr. J. W. Kelly resumed the Finanoia Debate. He deprecated the additions pro posed to large salaries. The Treasurer 1 ! proposals as to certain Sinking Funds wen like a death-bed repentanoe and an admis sion that he had done wrong in " collaring ' the Sinking Funds. He disapproved of tbi treaties, and wonld oppose the Vanoouve: subsidy. Bvbnino Sitting. Mr. Earnßhaw condemned the treaties am the virtual shutting out of England, whiol admits all our products free. Mr. Collins, defended the aotion of tbi Government in reference to the unemployed The Minister for Railways deprecated till continual personal attacks on Ministers The Treasurer, for instance, had been at taoked on all sides, but when one paper weni further and attacked his departments, hi put his foot down, and the result was abjeoi apologies. On the whole, the Treasnrei had, whenever the forms of the House per mitted it, refuted the oharges made againti him. Last year the Opposition grumblec at there bring sensational proposals and , they grumbled this year because there were no sensational proposals. Ali sorts of oharges were brought agaiusi the 00-operative workß system, but it was t right system. There were weak spots in al systems: ■ The working of it depended' t jrood'deal on the engineers, who sometimci found difficulty in estimating small seotions when theyuould aoourately estimate large ones. The Government was attaoked at the same time for paying too-jnuoh and foi paying too little to the men. As to the fn creases in salaries, they had not been in bit department, for in the management depart ment of the railways the cost had beei reduced from .£6375 to .£3675. There were many increases in salaries provided for bj Act. He challenged men like Mr. G. W Busßell to move that these increases be not made. Members f eely talked of broker promises, but ) c challenged them to shon him promises whioh he hid not fulfilled, In dealing with the prospecting and olhei votes he had to use much discretion. The prospering vote had been overrun nenrh 100 per. cent. Mr. Duthie had attacked them ,over the founds road. Mr. Duthie was somewhat reckless in his statements. He had Said that one contractor would do the work at .£240 a mile. Well, he wonld give him .£260 a mile for a three-mile section next year, provided Mr. Duthie would entei into-rtt bond of .£5OO that his contractor wonld do'the work. (Mr. Dnthie— " I'll see the man.") This Government had inoreased the public debt less than its predecessors, and out of this inorease of .£1,526,000 the greater part was returning more interest than was being paid for it. Former Governments had permitted a polioy of drift. This Government had shown originality, and had exploited- new -ideas. Instead of following musty preoedents it had oreated them, and the colony's bonds stood higher than ever. The railways had been literally thrust upon the Government. The ohange was desired by the people, and the ohief ohtrge brought •gainst hia administration was that he was too slow in effecting ohanges. That he regarded as a oompliment. Kinoe March last he had'' made numerous reductions to suit local requirements. The rate on sheep was rerraoed 20 per cent., and if no more sheep were carried they would have lost £7500. .But the result had been to enormously inqrease the number of sheep carried, and the Ipsa would be only abont £500 a year. Increased rolhng stock would, however, be required. Notwithstau^fig' the decrease in rates there was an inorease in some distnota in the ';.narriage on wool. They were doing whit they could for the looal bodier; ajd hi; wanted £10,000 for sidings i^Tfownes, 4fe. All this was not " going slojr," andrif they would vote him the neoeesary money-he would guarantee to become a very popular Minister for .Railways. The Premier's idea of the sohool MoureioDS 'had prdved a boon, and the rednotion of the general exoorsion rates was having such effeot that he doubted whether they would have sufficient foiling sto.kto carry everyone. Then they 'were going to effeot improvements in the lighting. If the railways were paid for their aervioei they would get £40,000 from other departments. He did not agree with Captain Bttuell that Ministersshpuld not do departmental work. They must dp so to keep in touoh with tho work, and it would not do to leave it to

tr- ■■■ under-seoretarics, who were out of. touch with tho general publio. Opposition membets who to fiercely oritioiaed them would not date go to the country and propoße to reverse their polioy of taxation, or any cf the great items of polioy. Mr. Dunoan supported the Governmert polioy. Where the Minister for Lands had not pnrohaasd land under the Land fcr Settlements Aofc it was because the prioes asked were prohibitive. The Colonial Treasurer eaid the deba'e showed a great diversity of opinion on both sideß of the House. On scarcely one question did the Opposition itself agree. As to the statements regarding the gross and net debt, similar tables had appeared in the Budget of the Chancellor of the Exohequer Bines 1863. The net debt under the present system mußt appear greater than the gross debt on aooount of tho treatment of the sinking funds. Members who oritioised the issue of Treasury bills 'evidently aid not know that the English Ohanoellor last year issued £21,000,000 of Treasury and Exchequer bills. As to the sinking funds, they were created out of the Consolidated Fund, and yet members objected to their being returned to that fund. Members who oharged him with misleading statements should refrain from making snoh statements themselves. The fixing of an early date for thecolleotion of the Land Tax was neoesiary to the requirements of' the Treasury. £600,000 of interest had to be met annually on the 29th Ootober. Previous Governments had no difficulty as to their financing, aa they had always millions of loan money to draw on. Any fool conld finince then. This Government had to use its brains. Members opposed the Advances to Settlers Office, but they would no more be able to abolish tbat department than the Postal Department, and it had effeoted a permanent redttotion of interest. Looking 'at the loan broadly, the faot remained that the loan was raised at 3 per oent. when mem.- j bers said it could not be raised at less than 4. The greatest difficulty was found by the Bank of New Zealand in securing paying investments for the extra million. Government refused it for some time. The Bank of New Zealand offered the Colonial Bank a direot deposit of £150,000. A similar offer was made another bank, whioh refused altogether. The Colonial Bank refused to take it direotly, but agreed to take it at SI per cent, from the Government. The Bank of New Zealand was then allowed to take the £150,000 of Consols conditionally on its re-transferring them if the publio . desired to purchase any of them. Sir Robert Stout wonld not believe that he (Mr. Ward) had the right Canadian tariff. Sir Robert got the information as to the wrong table being in the Statement from the Customs Department in Wellington. The figures in the Statement were baaed on the right table and not on the wrong one. He should have told the Customs officer that he was working the wrong statement, instead of waiting to make political capital ont of the matter' in the House While there was a strong feeling as to timber and fruit in conueation with the treaties, Government conld substitute other articles. (Applause ) Sir Robert Stout said he got absolutely no information as to the tariff from the Customs Department. He went there to see if they were done with two' books whioh they had ont of the library. He did* not know then that the wrong tariff was being worked from. The House 'then went into Committee of Supply, and after half an hour's discussion as to returns, progress was reported at 11.55 p m. "Vhe amendments of 'the Counoil in .the Fa milyHomeß Protection Bill were disagreed with, and the Minister for Landß. 'Sir Bobert Stout, and Mr. Dunoan were appointed, managers for the House to a conference ' The striking out by the Council of the olanse of the Mining Companies 'Act Amendment Bill with reference to sharebroking by mino managers was disagreed with, and the Premier, Minister for Mines, and Mr. M' Go won were-avpointed managers.' The amendments of the Council in the Evidence Further Amendment Bill were agreed to, as were those in the Animals Protection Bill, and > ative" Townships Bills The Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Aot Amendment Bill (Hon. Mr. Beeves) was read a second time pro forma, and referred to the Labour Bills Committee. The House rose at 12 10 a m.