PARLIAMENT

Evening Post, Volume XLVI, Issue 22, 26 July 1893, Page 4

PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Yesterday's Afteknoon Sitting. The Dnnedin Garrison Hall Trustees Empowering Bill (Mr. Allon), Tbo Robe Pota. Investigation of Titles Aot Amendment Bill (Hon. Sir. Carroll), were read a first time. FINANCIAL DEBATE. Mr. PARATA resumed tho Financial Debate at 5.55. He congratulated tbe colouj on the first Financial Statement of a youn!.New Zealander. He urged the necessity for paying greater attention to nativo legislation and for amending the native land laws. Even] no Sitting. The PREMIER said he had boon twitted with lack of courage beoauso ho had not followed the member for Ellesmere. The position was a peculiar one, the Loader of the Opposition having apparently abdicated his position; bnt ho denied that ho (Sir Seddon) ever showed lack of courage in the House. He had been blamed for the length of the debate, but they had to remember that this was the last debate before a general election, and everyone wanted to speak. Government was not responsible for the length of the debate, and he considered that the business of this session had advanced to a degree which compared favourably with previous sessions. Ho had known the debate on the Speech from the Throne take as long. The Government had not prolonged the debate to block certain measures. Had he replied to the member for Ellesmere at once, the debate would hare been closed, as he having, in the absence of the Colonial Treasurer, moved the motion to go into Committee of Supply, his speaking would have been the reply to the debate. (Mr. Rolleston denied this.) He complimented Sit John Hall upon his speech, bnt notwithstanding his oriticism he had nothing to withdraw as to what he hod said in Anokland, for although he recognised the debt the country owed to Sir Harry Atkinson as a patriot and statesman, there was a debt due also to the memory of the Liberal Party, and the proof of what he had said was in the records of the colony. The Hon. Mr. Oliver, as Minister for Public Works, had said in his Statement of November, 1879, that there were liabilities amounting to .£1,200,000. The Premier went on to treat of the matters in dispute respecting the Liberal finances and Sir Harry Atkinson's reflections upon them quoting speeches by tho Hon Mr. Alacandrew and the Hon. Mr. Miver in support of tho contention that tho liabilities referred to were " bogus." The statement that it was the Grey finance which had wieckcd the colony could not be verified. Ho quoted figures to prove his statement that during two years of tho Atkinson Administration 14,298 persons left the colony. The faci was that the colony had since been gaining population. Treating of the Bridget, he went at length into the figures connected with the public works expenditure in order to controvert the statement that the Government had increased the public works expenditure. The Government had had to proTide .£107,059 for contracts entered intc before their coming into office. They had been aoensed of expending large sums in conversion operations, but all that the conversion operations of three years had oost the colony was .£45,000. He albo qnoted figures to show that, as compared with the towns, the country fared much better under the Government taxation proposals than the Opposition sought to make the country believe. The Income Tax also chiefly came from the towns. He had listened with pleasure to Sir Robert Stout's speeoh. With one or two exceptions his speroh supported what had been the policy of the Liberal Party for many years. The Government now stood before the country with its polioy almost complete. Sir Robert Stout merely opposed the exemption of improvements lest the country could not spare the revenue. Tbe Government polioy in this respect was on the linos laid down by the Leader of the Opposition in Anokland. Persons holding large estates had spent more during the last few months in improvements than they had done for years previously. This was because of the Government promise to, as soon as nossible, exempt improvements when it could be done. Longbeach and Glenmark were two examples. The most important question in tho State- * ment was the dealing with tho large tracts of native lands. Ihe time bad come when these lands must be dealt with. The nativoj, though the po sessors of broad acres, were pauperised and degraded, owing to tho state of the laws. He hoped Parliament would not prorogue until they had laws which would deal fairly with the natives, while, at the same time, seeing to the extension of European settlement. No other Government had essayed the rating of native lands. He was satisfied the natives would not object to the proposals. The Railway Act was conceived in corruption. Members voted for it, and said they did so, to get rid of Mr. Maxwell, who bad, in doing his duty, become unpopular. Then it was intended to get a Commissioner from England. Had it been told that the Chief Surveyor, a gentleman for whom he had great respect as Chief Surveyor, but who had no railway knowledge, was to be made Chief Commissioner, the Bill would never have passed. Since their appointment to office the Commissioners had increased salaries by £1133. The increases had been in the direction of improving the positions of the higher-salaried men, and the wages men had not been benefited. He qnoted the leave given to some of the officers, claiming that they showed that two district managers, an engineer-in-chief, and two locomotive superintendents were away at one time. They were therefore not required, and so it followed that the railways administrative branch was overmanned. The Government did not intend to abolish the Commisioners, but to have a Minister upon the Board to represent the House upon it. He contended that there were politics in the Railway Commissioners. They had the Railway servants sitting in Wellington legislating and coming to thorn with the Chairman of Commissioners and their Bill. (Mr. KOLLESTON— What has that to do with potties?) Ho always understood that the passing of a Bill bad to do with politics. They came with a proposal for the colony to add .£SOOO to ( heir salaries. That was politics. He had told the deputation it was unique, and it was nnique. What would they say if tbe Government Insurance Department were so bent on promotingaßill? This was certainly politics, and fully boro ont what had been stated in the Budget as to the Commissioners taking part in politics. (Government cheers.) Rcferting to hig various speeches he denied that he had ever said that all the taxation must be on the land. On the subject of co-operative works, he said if they went back to the old contract system it meant going back to borrowing and to squandering. With the co-operative system it was not necessary to keep large sums of borrowed money in the bonks. The works were paid for as the revenue came in. The system could be still further perfected, but even *s at present the cost was less than under the contract system. Take the earnings, wet or dry, they were little over the current rate of wages for such work. The engineers were not interfered with, and the engineer was the sole arbiter. Under the old contract system contractors were often paid large Bums to which they were not entitled. He knew of one case Bince he was Minister in which a contractor was paid .£7OO too much in error, which could not be got book. They had contractors who made' thousands of ponnds out of Government, and they had contractors who were rained by taking Government contracts. They Avoided both these by the co-operative system. Under the old contract system they saw at one time largo bodies of men forced to accept 2s 6d per day on pnblio works. In conclusion, he said the country was fairly prosperous, and the Government were endeavouring to increase confidence. That was their policy. He qnoted tho address of Mr. Adam Porter, Chairman of the Auckland Chamber of Commerce, to show the improvement in the trade of the colcny. Tho Government wonld deal with any unemployed difficulty, but they could not be forced to pnt men on unproductive works. Referring to the Cheviot Estate, he said they had taken it over under a law which hod been in existence nnder the Property Tax before they came into office. Had they refused to carry out tho law on the recommendation of the Commissioner of Taxes, hey would have been failing in their dnty. It was necessary to sell a portion for cash to obtain moneys for raiding, otherwise poor men could not take it np The Budget placed taxation on tho shonlders best ablo to bear it. It encouraged improvements, and by co doing afforded work lor the people. It providod a Graduated Tax, from which large landowners could obtain relief by sabdividing or improving. By judicious amendments in the laws, and by care in the public expenditure, they hoped to benefit the country. The Government policy was in the Budget, und they would stand or fall by it. (Applause.) The Hon. Mr. BOLT.ESTON said the Premier had spoken for three solid hours. Some of his friends thought he was stonewalling. There was a saying of Mark Twain b that if a man could not strike oil in 40 minutes there was no oil to strike. So it was with this speech, which was all wind and sound and foam. Sir John Hall had been asked to take the position he did in the debate in deferenoe to his experience and standing. The Premier had said members had not touched the Budget, but he certainly had not touched it himself. The debate so far had shown that the finance of the Colonial Treasurer was dangerously weak, that the oheßt would be empty in March, and that it was financing on a surplus whioh might not be realised. The Premier's statement that if he had spoken the debate wonld have closed was absurd. Why had it not closed now ? The Premier had arranged to come several nights ago, but the arrangement had been gone baok on. It was much to be regretted that the House should have to be dragged through disoussions of past finance Owing to the notion of Ministers during the reoess. Todd laid it down that Ministries should not use their power to obtain censure on past Governments for merely Party pnrposes. The verdict of the public on the finance of '79 was against the Minister* of the day. That was 14 years ago, and the statements of Sir Harry Atkinson were aooepted as true at that time. It was a discreditable statement on the part of a Premier to Bay that the liabilities quoted by Sir Harry Atkinson then were manufactured for political purposes — bogus liabilities. The speaker entered at some length into the affairs of the '79 Ministry and ita BUboeseora. Referring to the preeent ■tate of the country, he said there was no period in the history of the colony in whioh there were so many unemployed, and the reason was largely tho timidity of capital, earned bj the action of the Government. He contested the Premier's statements as to {he relative weight of taxation on town »nd country. On the matter of the railways both the Premier and Sir Robert Stout bad talked nonsense when they said it was a refleotion on the House to give the Commissioners control. It was an outrageous thing to say that the Railway Bill was passed to get rid of Mr. Maxwell. The Government of that day had done it* beßt to get an expert from England, and they had been f ortnnate, as it turned ont, in getting three gentlemen like the present. The Premier asked what experienoe Mr, M'Kerrow had in railway matter!. What experience hod the Premier in railway matter* ? He was satisfied that a

nan of Mr. M'Korrow'a ability who applied 'u3 mind to railway matters could master .hem. The Premier had aaid that the Comiiissiouors increased tho larger salaries to Hio detriment of tho smaller men. If that \\a3 so the Premior was to blame, for he idoptcd the estimates Tho fact was that tho state of thingh was such that either the Commissioners ov the Premier should go, vud he thought the couutry would say that it should not be the Commissioners. The Premier had received the recent deputation ot railway employes in a carping and antagonistic spirit. Ihe Conference was a per- ; ectly proper one. There was no reason why the railway employe's should not enjoy an insurance scheme. Tho Commissioners had secured an increase of rovonue out of proportion to the incieaso of expenditure. It I was a right thine and a valuable thing that officers like Mr. Rotheram Bhould go to Europe to obtain information which would prove of value to tho oountry. !t was very important that an offioer in his position should obtain such information. He quoted tho Electoral Commssioners, the Auditor-General, and others to whom Parliament had handed over responsible functions, as showing the absnrdity of the contention that it was, a disgrace to Parliament to hand over its power to the Railway Commissioners. A Minister should no more interfere with the administration of the railways than with the administration of tho Judiciary or of the factory officors. Tho Premier had taken advantage of the last speech of last session to charge the Railway Commissioners with lowering the rate per ton on coal after accepting a contract for its supply, thus largely bonofiting the contractors. The statement was absolutely wrong, and was a disgrace to the Premier, and it Bhowed fne danger of letting him have anything to do with the railways, and marked him as utterly unfit to sit where he aat. The facts were that before making the reduction the Commissioners obtained from their contractors a similar reduotion. The PREMIER said Mr. Kennedy had written admitting he had made a profit out of it. Tho Harbour Board of Westport had also protested. Mr. ROLLESTON said the Premier's misrepresentation in this case was only exoclled by his falsification of the records of the House in tho case of the Publio Works Statement of last year. The PREMIER and the MINISTER for LANDS appealed to the Speaker as to whether Mr. Rolleston was in order. The SPEAKER ruled that the expressions exceeded Parliamentary HcenßO. Mr. HOLLESTON said tho Premier had greatly altered a record of the House after having profited by the misßtatement it contained The Premier had made tho excuse that he was asleep at tho time. The foot was his conscience was asleep, and it still slept the sleep that knew no waking. (I aught er). Coming to the Finanoial Statement, the tpeeches of Messrs. R. Thompson, Carnoross, Blake, and Sir R. Stout quite sufficiently pulled the Budget to piooeß. The modified taxation was inequitable. The middle class was excepted, and the struggling olassea were not relieved. The Property Tax gave an equitable basis, and fell most upon the wealthy. The publio, however, had decided to do away with the Property Tax. Tho surplus, he thought, was accidental, and not reourrent, and a system of public works based on snoh snrpluses was simple madness. Referring to the Customs revenue, he said the Government could not afford to reduce any taxation at present. There wore 2000 unemployed in the country, wheat and wool were down, and it was hard to Bay what might oome next. He had little confidence in the Premier being able to guide the native legislation. (Mr. Seddon — I will do my best.] After treating of Sir Robert Stout's speech, Mr Rolleston said as long as he remained m tho House, he would expose the uonsonse of the Ministerial professions. The PREMIER said that he did not altet in any way a record of the House in the Public Works Statement, as alleged. The alteration of a clerical error had been made in the Printing Office by tho Under-Socre-tary for Public Works. He would refer the whole matter to the Pablio Accounts Com. mittee, and he hoped tho Leader of the Opposition would apologise to him in the matter when ho found ho had done him an injustice. After the Premier had been badgered witl questions, the debate was adjourned, on the motion of Mr SANDFOI.D, and the House rose at 1.25 a.m.