Encounter Between the Premier. and Mr. Scobie-Mackenzie. THE PREMIER SACRIFICED.

Evening Post, Volume XXXIV, Issue 69, 19 September 1887, Page 4

Encounter Between the Premier. and Mr. Scobie-Mackenzie. THE PREMIER SACRIFICED.

[By Telkouai'H.J {Our Own Correspondent.) Donedin, Tins Day. Tho gladiatorial combat bcitwccn Sii Robert Stout and Mr. .Soobie-Macken/.io 1 ul Naflcby, on Friday nitfht, wan witnessed b< fully 400 peoplo, representing nearly ever; portion of tho electorate. ¦Sir Robert Stout, who was wrll revive on ming, staid Unit lie was at Nii^oliy, u^ he had boon at other part* of tho colony, not t> urge tho clninu of any particular candidate bnt to explain Ilic political position of the Ministry, and to exhibit in their varied lights tho rival jiolicies of tho loaders of the Opposition. Ho was also thero in compliance with tho terms of a requisition from a number of electors who desired him to dolivor an addross on tho political situation. Ho was sorry that ho had not visited the district before, but if ho had done so ho would have boon tormoda "political trader," coming thoro to got Homo of tho political spoil -(langhtor)—" Another tilt at the press"— but it was noccßfary that ho should visit tho district, as tho Daily Times, which circulated well in tho country, continually misrepresented tho acts of tho Ministry. Anything that appeared in tho Evening Star detrimontal to him was carefully copied into tho Daily Times. Tho wholo objo>;t of tho management of tho latter paper wai to systematically misrepresent the doing*) of tho Govorumont. Ho had been subjictod to thin species of espionage for months pa»t, and the only way to set matters right was for him to appeal to tho doctors faco to faco and to explain tho Ministerial policy, and to allow tho olootorn of Mount Ida to judge of its merits. [At this stage Mr. Mackonzio entered the hall, and tho audionco roso almost to a man, and for fully a minuto tho bnilding rang with tlio chooring.] Ho (Sir K<>bort) had no business to comment on Mr. Mackenzie's speech bacau.se thoir lato member belonged to no pirty, and had apparently no leador j therefore ho (Sir ltobort) could not discuss with him the political questions of t'io day. Ho exceedingly regrottod homo of Mr. Mackoii/.io'a phrases, and aftor tho bittle was fought and won ho boliovcd that that gontloraan would regrot having usod thorn. Major Atkinson and Sir John Hall in addrossing their mcotings had notaccused the Govorumout of personal corruption. Mr. Mackonzio — No I did not accuso Ministers of personal corruption." Sir Robort Stout— Well, Mr. Mackenzie had said in his speech that tho travelling oxponscs of Ministers represented tho " spoil of an organised band of pol itical maraudors j ' ' that inon who "totally ignored tho toil and tho swoat of tho nnhappy taxpayor sot out on a fillibuatoring expedition against tho colonists." Did not that impute personal corruption? [A. voico, "Poor Hodge! "I Ho was also sorry that Mr. Mackonzio had roforrod to Mr. Hodijo— [Crios of "Oh."]— who was said to bo his (Sir Robort's) factotum. Woll a factotum was bottor than a toetotum. (Laughter.) Mr. Hodgo was woll vorsod in politics, and able to take care_ of himself without any assistances from him. Ministers had boon charged with making monoy out of thoir travelling allowances. It was complained that Ministers did not visit the country districts enough, and urged that they should do this in preforonoo to sending officers to roport, but tho Government's accusers should romember that whon Ministors travollcd tho whole of tho oxponses of their attenduuts wore charged against them personally, whilo as a matter of fact Ministers received no benefit from tho oxpondituro. For instanco, on ono occasion whon Mr. Larnach visited a cortain district Mr. Gordon, Inspoctor of Mines, wont with him, tho result boing that the latter's expenses wore charged against Mr. Larnaoh. What was tho difforonce botwoon money going to tho officers and it boing paid to Ministers? Ministers should travel and ascertain tho requirements of tho country j districts. If thoy did not tboy despatched offioors who drew the money all tho same. If the Government could gather an insight into the wants of the country at an outlay of only £1493 per Minister it was monoy woll spont. Tho total sum he (Sir Robert) drew was J8239 7s 9d, and pirt of that amount was for allowances in connection with his appearanoo at Christohurch in the caao of Regina v. Hall. If ho had drawn fees tho same as othor lawyers who appeared for tho Crown ho would havo reoeiyod more than tho total amount of his travollingallowanccs. If this was tho only charge of oxtravagance that conld bo brought against the Govornmont, tho criticism was very mild indeed. With regard to retrenchment from 1883 to 1885, he said thero had beon a large increase of population, and there had beon an increase in tho colony's requirements for convonienoos—for roads and bridges and for railways. The Government expenditure must necessarily go on, and yet, with all, they were able to show savings in nearly all departments. Thoro were ono or two increases, but none of them were of great importance. The Daily Times had said the voto of tho goldfiolas members had been bought over by cxpendituro of certain sums on goldfiold?. Was there over a fouler slander uttered on one of the most independent classes in tho colony? (Applause.) Tho patent remedy for dealing with tho deprossion was, "Don't borrow; don't borrow." This was something liko Punch's advice to thoso about to marry, and was just as likely to be acted on as that was. (Laughter.) Whoever was in office during the next threo years would find that they would havo to continue borrowing. That could not bo stopped suddenly, it must bo tapered off, and his Government had taperod off. So v oral of tho railways had to bo completed, and it would bo dotrimental for tho Government to stop the Otago Central at Middlomarch ; it must bo carried on at all hazards. Tho extra charges for getting loanß to finish all the railways would n >fc amount to moro than £20,000 a year. To Buddonly stop borrowing for all purposes would bo to land tho colony in bankruptcy. One of tho clauses in the Loan Aot was to the effect that whon a loan was raised for a certain work it should be spent only on that undertaking. If this had beoome law ten yoars ago Otago Central would now havo roaohod tho Taiori Lake. The lino should and must bo pushed on in order to settlo the lands and to supply the requirements of the population already settled on them. (Applause ) It had been said by the Opposition that ho had carriod out his fads in regard to land settlement. What he had done was to settle the people on tho land on perpetual lease, being the system which ¦was most fancied by tho Government. Last year tho Government settled 2424 selectors, absorbing 245,000 acres, as against an average of the previous Government of 878 selectors, who settled on 121,000 acres. (Applause.) Being able t) show such a record tho Government were entitled to tho thanks of tho country. Regarding the systems under which land could Be acquired, Sir Robert said that freehold had proved the most disastrous and tho greatest failure of all existing methods of settlement. The freehold of lands should be vested in the State as a porpotual source of wealth and prosperity. The rival policy was to sell the land, and thus throw it into the hands of capitalists. This was tho most suicidal polioy that tho country could commit itself to. Look at tho large blocks of the finest wheat-growing land in the colony whioh were held by a few, and not a soul was to bo seen for miles. Tho object of the Land Acquisition Bill was to sottlo people on land where now there wero only to be Been mobs of sheep. Sir Robert repeated his views on tho education question, and said tho existing system must be maintained at all hazards, although tho expenditure might be rednced by reducing the cost of primary education, and lowering tho salaries of teachers. He was aoousod of having fads, whioh simply meant ho had tried to give effeot to them. Onr Hocial state was far from perfect, when ono read tho bitter appeals of "Outcast Lon30n," of' the orimo and immorality of large centres in England, or intemperance in cities »nd' towns, he oonoluded also that the system was very far from perfect, and it would tako thousands of years to bring it to a state of perfection. Fads meant that thoy wore trying to improve their fellow-colonists, to raise and elovato them to a position such as would placo them in competition with the brightest intellects of the universe. (Cheers.) The Government had doubtless made mistakes, but they would try and do some good for thoir- race and for their adopted country. (Applause.) At the close of his oloquentaddross, which oooupiod nearly an hour and a-balf in its delivery, Sir Robort answered soveral questions. He said ho was in favour of spreading tho money required for tho complotion of railways over a period of eight or nine years. If tho Stout- Vogel Ministry wero turnod out of offioo there was no rooson why Major Atkinson should bo dobarrcd tho privllego of leading tho Opposition to victory and obtaining office. Ho was not propared to altor his principles in order to suit Mr. Scobio Maokonzio, or in order to srenro his support. Ho hold opinions which could not bo altered to plonso aoyono. He was in favour of continuing 1 subsidies to local bodios, but he did not approve of the nroposal to givo thorn control of Crown 1 inds. Ho was against tbo granting- of State aid to Catholio schools, and did not approvo of tho oatablishmont of a Stato Bank of Issuo, boeaußO it might causo speculative manias and injuro tho credit of tho colony. A large number of other questions wore also asked, after whioh it was proposed and seconded— " That Sir Robert Stout be thanked for his address, and that this meeting have confidence in the polioy of the present Ministry." An amendment to the oontrary offeot was carried, and the motion was rejeotod by fully two votes to one. It seemed as if the meeting were going to disperse when Mr. Mackenzie mounted tho platform, and after the cheering had subsided he said that he would only detain thorn for a few minutes. He had in a sense beon called there under false pretences ; he was there to answer an attack by tho Premier, and had abandoned one of bis mootings in orde^ to roceivo it. Instead of that tho Premier had delivered a long address on nothing in particular. (Cheers.) A gentlo- - man in the meeting had asked to havo the speoch printed and circulated. Ho (Mr. Mackenzie) could supply tho speech in print now. (Hero Mr. Mackenzie, amid much laughtor, sifted some printed matter from among his papers.] He would bo happy to hand it ovor to the Premier, who, having read it, would find little in it. (Laughtor.) It was tho same stereotyped stuff that hod been spoken at differont places, even to tho very quotations. (Cheors.) Sir Robert Stout — That is absolutely untrue. Mr. Mackenzie said he could givo the quotations if tho meeting liked, to prove it, but it would hardly bo worth whilo. Had Sir Robert Stout attacked him he would have replied with some rather sharp things ; but as he had not, he would not take up their time. Sir Roboit Stonl — Go on ; go on. • Mr. Maokenzie— Very well ; I shall do so with great pleasure, end see how the Premier will like it. Take tho Otago Central line. Sir Robort Stout had said that but for Captain Russell's motion tho railway would have made greater progress. Well, they should be surprisod to learn that the Go•vernmont had not expended anything like

Uio money that Parliament had actually \oted for the work. In 1885 Parliament voted £105,000, but tho Government bad only expended £19.350. (Groans.) Sir Robert Stout -That is absolutely Mr. Mackenzie— ls it though? Will tho Premier kindly supply rao with tho correct figures then? (Cheers.) . Sir Robort Stout, after turning over his papers, said that tho figures wore correct. (Ironical cheers.) What ho meant was that his Government wore only in power hall of 'Mr^Mackonzie— Well, why did thoy not expend the half of tho monoy votedr ffAU»htcr and cheers.) Next year ,£l2b,W)<> «w voted, and only XGO.O9D «as »P«>nt : while, to bo perfectly fair, lw would odd to this £W,m of liabilities incurred. The not rnviTV ! was. tfiat while in three years -X'MI.COO hwl boen voted by Parliament, Only .£231727 had be« expended. (CroMiß .and . hiwn) ,Wonld Sir Robort challergotbcsp figures r rhe Government had grossly, neglected thp line, and even what was dons w^s dup to the action of tho Otago momborß/ wcQ,mnt at tho Chamber of Commerce in XJnhfcdin. Then Sir Robort Stout had asked where was the extravagance in Government expenaiu?o,and ho°had said that i he had reduced tho expenditure. Ho (Mr. Mackenzie) would oxpose that trick also. There was tho expenditure undor tho annual votes md under Acts which wero of coumg not voted. Tho expenditure during their first year of office was increased by £108,705; noxt year showed an apparent decroaso in tho annual expenditure of .£99,999; but tho expenditure under Acts of Parliament showed an increase of i,77,0UJ. In tho samo way, an apparout decrease of last year had alongside of it an increase of jeß9 999. It was the old triok of taking a shilling out of one pocket and putting it into another. (Cheers. i Tho Premier noed not turn his papers over. There was no mistake this timo. (Laughter.) Dealing with education, the Promior Had said that his pamphlet against Stato education was a mero essay, in whioh for form « sako he had takon tbo negative Ho (Mr Mackon/io) would lot tho meeting judge of that. [Hero amid groat laughter ho read Home passages from tho pamphlot.] Ho did not caro a straw about any change in a man s opiniona,buthedidnot)ike to seoaman taking up positions after ho had becomo popular and then running thorn to death. (Cheers.) Tho spoaker then dealt with tho quostions of settlement and protection. Sir Robert Stout had somewhat ungenerously stated that ho (Mr. Maekonzie) occasionally played lawn tennis whon he ought to bo at work. Sir Kobort Stout— l did not moan that ; but I think I attend moro divisions than you Mr. Mackenzie— Woll, I havo caubed tho divisions— (choors)— and thoro was ono division not long ago that I had a considorablo hand in making. (Great laughtor.) Sir R. Stout, ho continuod, had acknowledged having fads, and said that perhaps ho (.Mr. Mackonzio) was not without thorn. It was true that ho had ono particular fad at the prosont moment, and that was to turu tho Stout-Vogol Government out. (Choors.) Ho aupcaled to tho sonso of independence of the electors. Sir Robort Stout was there to try and romove from his path a strong opponont, and to get in a parasitical hanger-on of his own. Mr. Mackenzie resumed his seat amid great cheering. Sir Robert Stout roplied, but did not successfully assail Mr. Mackenzie's position. Threo ohoers wore given for tho latter, and tho mooting broke up about midnight Tho audionco woro not in accord with Sir Robort, who, as the local papers say, received a most humiliating scarifying at Mr. Mackenzie's hands which ho will likely remomber for many a long day. Sir Robort spoke very woll, but his strongest supporters admit that as Mr. Maokonzio went on, what botween the points ho mado and tho figures ho quoted, and tho onthususm of tho audionce, ho Beemcd to completely ovorwhelm tho Minister. It was a magnificent victory for the cause of tho Opposition, whioh Sir Robort Stout has strengthened rather than weakonod by his present visit.