PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, 6th September.

Evening Post, Volume XV, Issue 210, 7 September 1877, Page 2

PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, 6th September.

After we went to press yesterday, leave was given to the Hon. the Premier to bring in the Native Land Sales Suspension BUI. The second reading was fixed for Tuesday next.— Mr. Wakeneld moved. "That the manuscript of the address recently delivered by Mr. George Jones at the bar ot this House, and furnished by him to the clerk for the convenience of this House, be returned to Mr.' Jones." ' He expressed astonishment at the reply of Mr. Whitaker, on the previous day, when he Intimated that it was possible the reply of Mr. Jones mighty be produced in evidence. — The Hon. Mr. Whitaker said that if he had had the prosecution in his,. own hands he would have given up the document the previous day, as lie did not deem it- necessary. The Crown Prosecutor was of the same< opinion, and the statement would therefore be given up. — The discussion was prolonged by Mr. O'Rorke, Mr. Fox, and Mr. Rees.— Replying to a statement of Mr. Rees, Mr. Whitaker stated that he was in the Resident Magistrate's Court that morning, waiting to be called as a witness, and if the Crown Prosecutor refused to let him bo called it was on his (Mr. Izard's) own responsibility.—Mr. Hislop, Mr. Gisborne, Mr. W. Wood, Mr. Button, Sir Robert Douglas, Mr. Lusk, Major Atkinson, Sir George Grey, Mr. Reynolds, and others took part in the debate, which resolved itself into a question as to whether the paper was the property of *the House, or was Jones' property, and had been improperly retained by ¦ the House. — The Speaker gave it as his opinion that the paper was the property of the House.— Finally, the motion was carried. — Mr. O'Rorke moved, "That the report brought up from the Standiug Orders Committee on Wednesday, the sth inst., be agreed to." The report recommended several alterations in the Standing Orders, having the effect of relieving the House of some portion of the work which now tame before it; transferring bills of certain classes to the Legislative Conneil, to be there dealt with first.— The motion was unanimously agreed to. — Mr. Fox's motion relating to • gambling, &c, given in our yesterday's issue, was carried. — Mr. Rees moved that a committee of 16 members be appointed to inquire into all dealings in native lands by landed proprietors in Hawke's Bay.— The Hon. Mr. Ormond took the opportunity to refute the statements continually made by Sir George Grey and Mr. Rees as to his dealings in native lands. In the course of a lengthy speech, he said that he had only been concerned in three native land transactions. Two blocks were on lease, and some years ago he gave up one in the Seventy-Mile Bush. One .block, known as the Heretaunga Block, was purchased by an association of gentlemen, his share being 1,200 acres. This was in 1871. He paid £1 6s 8d an acre, the land being then swampy, and it had to be drained. Two or three years afterwards land iv thg same block sold for £3 an acre only, and at the end of the third year Mr. Tanner offered only £4 an acre for a picked section. Mr. Ormond read extracts from the report of Mr. Justice Richmond and Mr. Justice Manning, who had officially inquired into the circum-tances attending the sale of the block, to prove that full value had been given, and that the sale had been openly and legally conducted. The characters of any one of these gentlemen stood higher than those of either the hon. member for the Thames or the hon. member for Auckland City East, and not one had ever run into debt, and cleared from the country to cheat his creditors. Ever since last session litigation by natives had been on the tapis, and just before Parliament met some 40 or 50 writs were issued by a certain "pakeha lawyer," "low-class practitioner," and "a man who lived on fees wrung from ignorant natives." This committee was asked for, that they might go behind the law courts and gather evidence which could not be obtained in any other way. The real enemies of the natives were those who were the head of the repudiation party, to which the hon. member for Rodney was solicitor. It was they who encumbered the natives' estate?, under the guise of working for their interest. Tnreha and Te Hapuku had been pointed out as paupers. The truth was that they had large landed estates, sufficient to produce not only necessaries, but luxuries, but the Repudiation Society had managed to obtain some hold over those estates, Mr. ltees and Mr. Sheehan pulling the strings. Mr. Ormond then attacked Mr. Rees personally, declaring that he was sent to the House to do Sir George Grey's dirty work. Next he turned his attention to Sir George Grey. He went into the transactions on the East Coast, exposed last session by Sir Donald M'Lean, and other affairs. He remembered when a young man, that the settlers had been obliged to write to the Home Government, stigmatising the then Governor as a liar. Sir George Grey now talked much of the desirability of breaking up the large estates. At one time, when Governor of the colony, he had been most anxious to assist the capitalists. He (Mr. Ormond) would only mention one case _that of a large block of land near Wanganui. Sir George Grey had prostituted his position as Governor of the colony to assist these monopolists, because he was receiving a share of the land as payment for the exercise of his then all-powerful influence. To prove this charge, Mr. Ormond read a number of extracts from letters written by the Hon. H. R. Russell to Mr. Locke, concerning the block in question, and finished by declaring Sir George Grey's talk about the rights of the people to be rank hypocrisy.— Mr. Ormond was loudly applauded on resuming his seat, after speaking for two hours and a half. Mr- Sheehan said he felt inclined to cry with Coriolanus, " Immeasureable liar ! thou hast made my heart too large for what contains it !" but he would keep his temper. A little after half-past five o'clock that afternoon a jury of his fellow colonists had given the lie direct to Mr. Ormond's statements, for nearly every matter to which he referred was brought up in the Waka Maori case. After saying that Mr. Ormond went to Billingsgate for his language, atfd the Old Bailey tor his facts, Mr. Sheehan devoted his attention to the Hawke's Bay land transactions, enumerating five in which Mr. Ormond was concerned. The block at Heretaunga (near Hastings) was worth £10 an acre at the time it was bought, and within six weeks some of it was sold for that price. The capitalists who purchased the block drove the natives to desperation by inducing the storekeepers to take out writs against them. Then they offered 15s an acre for the land, and that was all that most of the natives received. Two had to be "bribed," as Mr. Ormond himself expressed it: others who were overlooked at first had to be paid, and the rest of the money went for land fees, *c, and that raised the price from £13,000 to £20,000. He never heard a word against Captain Russell and Messrs. Gordon, but Mr. Williams, the Rev. fcj, Williams, Mr. Tanner, and Mr. Qrmond had,

never freed themselves from the stigmas attached to the transaction. Mr. Ormond had used his official position in the Provincial Government of Hawke's Bay to secure lands for himself and his friends, while professing to purchase it for the people. The speaker went on to say that the Rev. S. Williams had "sold " the natives ; and then read extracts from the reports of the native Judges on the Royal Commission of 1871, to prove that their statements differed from those of the English Judges. With reference to the charges of harrassing litigation, he said he had only taken put five writs since last session. In one, judgment .had been ghren for -pkdntiftW, another (referring to the Heretau'nipnaockJ"" would have been fettled had nottMr. Ormdad-'a agents (whom he named) attempted -td<*rroo both the plaintiff and himself. They were to have £3000, and he was to have £1000 aaii&*» share; but the bribe had been refused. Tho other three cases were still pending, so that Mr. Ormond's statements in this respect were absolutely false. A writ was at present out against the hon. member for Clive, and tbe plaintiff was certain to succeed. If there was nothing to hide, why was the commission opposed ? He bad never in his life heard so mufh libel, so much untruth, and so much invective, in any one speech, as in that, of Mr, Ormond. Mr. Sheehan.; then took, Mr. Ormond's statements seriatim, contradicting and apparently disproving each one. He said that large leasehold blocks of rich land wero held by, Mr. Ormond. at a rental of 6d an aero, while it was, worth more than 10s; and declared, that th& statements. of the hon. member for Clive " could not be properly, characterized without using tin Ugly and unparliamentary word;" they were "the opposite to the truth,'' "grossly libellous^' "characterized by most remarkable audacity," and so on, the excitement of the Houso finding vent iv applause every now and then. ,'The Government woi« charged with using public officials to defeat the ends of justice by offering bribes and other means, Mr. Sheehan ¦ mentioning names and minute particulars in every case. In one Instance, " after a great, deal of cough* ing," he had been offered £3000 to induce the natives to agree to an unfair bargain; fiut'ue was "a low-class practitioner," and so he refused the bribe, ob* tamed £17.000 for the natives, and charged £250 for his services.— Mr. Sheehan spoke as long as Mr..Ormond, and with such energy that he.was qujte. hoarse r \vhen he resumed hw seat. — Captain Russell, in a temperate speech, reminded the House that Mr. Sheehan had, as a professional man, been engaged for four years in taking a one-sided vjew of native affairs. He denied that the money offered to Mr. Sheehan ia the Heretaunga case he mentioned was a bribe. There was continued worry about the laud, and they offered tho late native owner ' £3000 to pass the laud through the Court, and the £1000 offered to Mr. Sheellon was to pay all exponsos connected therewith. At the time the block wns purchased £13,500 was a good price to offor, and was more than other would-be (purchasers -would give. Neither ho nor Mr. Ormond lmd anything to do jvith the negociations for tho purchase. He moved, as an amendment,' " That au order to dispose of all .controversy a bill be brought into this House, to appoint a Commission to make full inquiry aud finally settle all outstanding claims m, question.' — Mr. Joyce felt thoroughly ashamed of this washing of dirty liven in public. He supported the motion^ .that tho public might know whether there was any truth, in these constantly reiterated charges agninftt hop. members.— Sir R. Douglas moved the adjournment of the debate "on the ground that when men's pasiions were excited, it was better that .time should be allowed them to cool down."— Mr. Reader Wood moved that the letters from which extracts \yi^e redd by Mr. Ormond should bo read in fall .—Mr. Rees snid he had gone with Mr. Locke (the owner of the. letters) to Mr. Whitaker's room, and after being kept waiting outside for ten minutes, Mr. Whitakor had refused to let them see the letters.— Mr. Whitaker- explained that they were left in his hands by the honimejnbttftfr Waipa as confidential communications, but Tie would ask permission .from Mr. Cox to produce them. — Mr. Stout asked if the Houso was to understand that Mr. Ormend's statement "that the letters were in the next room, and could be instantly produced if desired " was an empty boast ? If the letters were ctihfiflettfcl,. Mr.' Ormond had no right to see tpeio.^Mf . Whitaker and Mr. Ormond explained that authority was given to that oxtent, and they would, if possible, lay them on the table of tho House on the resumption of the debate.— Some further strong remarks were mtido by several members, Mr. J. C. Brown remarking that it was convenient for the Government that Mr. Cox had left town that morning. — Mr. Hanilin charged the Government with daily 'comMAMr " breaches of honor." — Mr. Hunter attempted to defend the conduct of the Government amid continual interruption; and Mr. Bunny was proportionately encouraged as he spoke on the other side. — Mr. Sheehan said these letters had been obtained by unfair means. They were sent by. Mr., Russell to Mr. Locko, and were the property, of the latter gentleman, who had a right to demand that they should be given up.— Mr. Donald Reid said Mr. Ormond was laboring under a misapprehension when he promised to produce them (oh, oh). — Mr. J. E. Brown moved the suspension of' the Standing Orders, in order that the letters might be ordered to be immediately laid upon the table.-— Major Atkinson supported the motion, as tho House would then take a very unpleasant responsibility out of the hands of Ministers. — The letters wero then ordered to be laid on the table, after a debate, in which Captain Russell, Mr. Moorhouse, Mr. Joyce, Mr.' Holies tonVnnd others, took part, the majority contending that the House could not deal with private documents in the manner proposed. — Mr. Mb<4rtft>use stated positively that he knew Mr. Locke' had an objection to the letters being produced.'^— Mr. Hanilin gave some account oi the manner in which the letters came into the 'hands" of the Government. Mr. Cox borrowed the letters from Mr. Locke for alleged- private purposes, upon a distinct promise that they should not 1)0 used in tho manner in which they had been. It was a most gross breach of . confidence on the part of someone. — Mr. Stotit ? .again "dressed down" the Government lh general, and the Attorney-General in particular, saying that tbe latter would find himself in a peculiar position, if Mr. Locke took' the affair into a Court of law. — Mr. Hislop proposed - that tho words "provided that tho consent of the Hon. H. R. Russell and Mr. Locke be first obtained," be added. — Mr. Whitaker again explained that Mr. Cox had placed the letters in his hands, and they had been shown to Mr. Ormond on an order from Mr. Cox. No other member of the Government had seen them.— After a fow words from Sir George Grey, absolutely denying the charges contained in the extracts of the letters read out, a division was called for. The motion was carried by 36 ngaiust IJJ.-'-The debate was adjourned at 2 o'clock until this afternoon.