LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. THURSDAY, DECEMBER 8.

Daily Southern Cross, Volume XX, Issue 2305, 9 December 1864, Page 6

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. THURSDAY, DECEMBER 8.

|b T«h Speaker took the chair at five minute* past W two o v fock. * 'S,* , mf ' SUSPENSION OF STANDING OUDERS. 1& ifter some preliminary business, Mr. Sewbt.t. mgaveiioiiicetliat lie should move on the next sittings HP day tha«all standing orders should be suspenclecl Swjitring the present session. || ,^ ' ~ GOVERNMENT BUSINESS. ' \ l^ffr, Skw£Ll> also gave notice that he would to r*sHnioriow move that the Government should be at **' liberty to arrange the business before the House in /? such a manner as to give precedence to Government 'U business ; and he would take the opportunity of stafc- «,! ing to the Council what course the Government in- ; tended" to puisne with regard to tho business before j it. He need not call the attention of the Council to * the special causes which necessitated tho piesent \ unusual sitting. The state of business before the A Council was such that, consistently with the inleiests ' of the public service, it might all be dhp ised of in a •■ short time. Tlie Government, however, were peri fectly willing to meet tho feeling of the Hoii'e on t \ the matter ; .and so long as both Houses of the Le^is~j latnre thought fit to i>rolong their tlolibeiations, the 'I Government would be quite willing to gi\o effect to $ their view. Should it happen thot somo lion. t, gentlemen desired to leave Auckland soon for the I purpose of returning to their homes, thereby canying X out arrangements made by them on the understand- % ing that the session wonM be a short one, lie 1 would state thabhobelieved thebnsiness tobe brought % before the House would nob prevent them doing so, I either at the end of the week or earlj in the follow- - ing week. It would be necessary that the Council j should afford every possible assistance to the GovernI ment to facilitate the passing of those measures * essential to tho public service. '1 herefoi e it was im- ; portaut that the Conned should suspend its standing s orders, with the view of passing through all the ; stages certaiu Government bills. Such bills were | prinsipally relative to money and finauce. There * were tlnee bills which the Government were desirous | to have the sanction of the Legislature to. The first ■ f *v.v» a bill for altering the New Zealand Settlements .' Act; the second a bill to enable the Governor to carry loads tin ough certain districts of tho colony; and the third a bill for giving certain poweis to the ' Governor for action m various distuibed «istiict«.

\<ySs'- PIUVATD BILLS. •J^^fr. Tancrkd, in rising, brought before the notice the Council the report of the .foint Committee on thf> petition of Mr. Venton, iv relation to standing onlevs in private bills, and moved, " That all standing orders in private bills should he suspended, in order to allow of the adoption of the report of the Joint Committee." Some discussion thereupon took place, and a division was called for, which resulted in the motion being cariied by a majority of 11 against 7.

' DVY OF PROVOCATION. Mr. Swatnson gave notice tlicab he would, on the 1 nrxfc sitting day, ask the lion, centleman ab the head • of the Government what day it was intended to proiogne the present session. * Mr. Sewell said, in auswev to the motion of his hon. friend, if he, would allow him ho would add somewhat to the statement he had already made, and would give at the present time as explicit and full aii answer as lie should be able to do on the following day, beside* which it would be well and useful that hon. members should know as soon as possible when the session would be closed. Looking at the present state of public bnsiiiess that had to be taken into consideration, Government thought it probable they would ask his Excellency the Governor to prorogue the present session of the Assembly on Tuesday next. There was no desiie on the part of the Government — indeed it .vould be absolutely wrong — to prolong the session for one day or one hour longer than was absolutely necessary1 JBearins in mind that view, he would propose that all / bills which could be pas-ed through the House with i propriety shoul i be entertained by the Council tomorrow. He thought the bulk of what might be 1 called foimal measures could be finished to-morrow. He should propose on the adjournment of the 5 House that ib adjourn until twelve o'clock | to-morrow, so tint an opportunity might bs \ be aff-ivdcd of pressing foi ward bills biought down I from the oilier House He was sure the Council \ would not object to continue their Fitting so long as I was necessii y. -\jm.li! rAbSED IS THE HOCSG OF REPRESENTATIVES j.vlr. speaker said that lie nail to inform the Council that the House of llep:esentativps had passe I the follow ing bills : — The itfew Zealand Settlements Act. ' ;. Tlio Tiank of A uckland Act. „- Tl.o Bank of Otago Act. 'i he Ommprcul Bank of Kew Zca'and Act. TluCanreibniy Gyvit Northern R ulwny \ct, ard - tic 0 mteibury Great Souther i R.iilw iv Act. jA BUI'I'UEJWTON Or WT.FU.TOV ACT. 4rh\r. Sew ell said befoie proceeding tj the oiders ■^of the day he would ask leave of ihe Ilou-e to be allowed to luing before th*ir atte-it.on a bill which, by some inadvcitency, hul been left out of the oider paper of the day, though the Chan mm v.is aware it had been on the pajw on t\vo or three occasi-iii. Hon. members weie awaie that an Act was passed last session called the Suppression of Ke!)8llion Act, which Act gave laige poweis to the Government The bill would, expire at the <nd of the piosent session, and all powers at piescnt capable of being e\e cised thereby would cease. lie objected to many parts of the expiring bill but still he considered it light that certain powuis. should be vested in the Government. The bdl he brought in~w~as to give his Excellency the Go\ernoi certain powers in substitution of those large powers which would s6on cease to be. When he (Mr. S ) made a statement of the measures the Government intend to propose on a future occasio >, he had intimated their intention of bunging in a bill founded on the Act of JB33 — the Jrish Act. He only refened to it to explain that tmVbill which he was asking leave to introduce was not in conformity with it. The Act of , 1833 enabled clerks of judicature to be consulted in ceitain disturbed dibtrict-s, and giving them power in those districts. It simply constituted the ineqular and exceptional tribunals for the trial of ceitaiu offenders, and limited the power. of those tubunals. _The preser.t Government did not think it was necessary at the present time to have these powers ; for thay wera useful, yet, pi aetically, they could* T>e exercised by the Com t Impeiial. It would, theiefore, seem altogether superfluous to eiect a militaiy tribunal, when the oulinary Com ts Imperial would sup- • ply certain objects. But theie were powers wUich the Government did think it desirable to have The question had been raised at to persons taken with arm", and on that point a nice question aiose as to persons so taken, whether they are to be tieated as peisons taking up arms against her Majesty's authority, or as prisoners of war, peisons' not in lelation of citizens or those who owed allegiance to the Crown— that was a question of veiy great nicety and difficulty which pie- • sented itself to the Govern men t. The late AttorneyGeneral would doubtless tell the Council on a futuie occasion how he himself had felt a difficulty as to how such persons should betieated, and fioin what had passed between himself (Mr. £>.) and his lion, friend, - he did not think he would raiie any opposition to the j 'Mjill, and that being so doubtless the Council would see ' no difficulty in allowing the bill to pass. Whdn the last bill was brought forward he (Mr. S.J expressed his opinion that certain powers nhotild be given to the Governor to detain persons so taken, and to deal with them practically as prisoneis of war, not haisbly but leniently, at the v same time by their custody to provide for the safety of the colony. The object of i the^ball under consideration was to give the Governor the power to detain, bo that no question shall be railed 1 as to it being incumbent upon them to subject them " to trial for high treason, r.iising that very nice ques- '/, tion as to the civic state of these persons, nor obliging - them on the other hand to be tried by military I law. Heaskcl the Council to agree to thisMjill to ' give by it power to the Governor to take into custody ■ persons who have taken up aims against her Majesty. 1 The * clause states -who are included tinder that power,."or .exactly the same — in fact, identical with „ the language' of the New Zealand Settlements Act, 1 which,'; however, he thought was somewhat broader thari'he would be ready to apply to this Act. The"; Act would give power to the Governor to detain or djicbarge fiom custody persons who since the Ist of Jauuary, , 1863, had been engaged in making or -carrying arms, or persons who refuted to give up *■ armsj &c. It proponed (d«o to give the Governor t^'power of Jteeping such persons without tiiol for any period not "exceeding twelve months, and lor making - s fluchVegiilatiom for their treatment as they may think feright 'Tiie ijill would also give to Sjii Excellency g^power^f, "discharging peraoni. . That alto wag an |enibn,rrat«irig question. If persons had been guilty of jtreaton'i of course, they mutt abide the consequencei. |HeJ;h"ougijfe*power ihould'be given to the Governor to edis'chargeifaiiy person whom he might think ib light pthd^prbj)er7^to, do. It was at one time thought it py;ould^bß'^ll;tliat power should be giveu to the Gofcyernor tojjbinitlL persons charged with these cfteucei, EbufcVsucb^U'f course ■ was to an extent objectionable. pHoJpropMed bythe^ill to ask, likewise, for a power' jlll^jqwfuliand necestary-^a power 'to eitablish % i^pnKJticiiljJblockade,' If operations were aboqt to be

taken at TarnnakPand other ports ib.'WM nepenMy to lmvo the moans of- proven ting,unfiiendly vessels entering. Such were the objects of the i^ll, and ho believed the Council .would not consider unreasonable ! powers were proposed to be conferred <by r it. He thought the Council would consider the billjis a 'judicious and proper one. With _ihe»e few remarks he would ask leave to^ introdu.ee n Bill forgiving to the General Government Qertain lowers, in Various Disturbed "Districts of New Zealand. given to bring in the bill, which was ordered to be read the first time to-morrow. h

. 4 NEW ZEALAND SETTLEMENTS AC! 1 / This bill was read the first tirao, and '"ordered to be read the second time to morrow. '.■.■■ v *

BANK OP AUCKTANI) ACT. Dr. Poiii.KN moved that this bill be read a second time. After the second leading of, it would go lo the Committee of Selection, so that there could be no objection on the part of the Council but otherwise, as it would tend to facilitate the discharge of the business of the session, Mr. WAiiTos seconded the motion. Mnjnr Whitmorp, said there wero four banking bills before the llotist 1 , and ho thought the Council should exercise giv.it ca'e before it gave its consent to so many banks being established hero, especially look ing to the present financial stale of tho colony. ■'Mr. SfiiiWyy said lie bad no leason to believe that the Auckland Banking Company was not established upon as sound a foundation an other bodies who were desirous of obtaining certain privileges granted to them. He would not then argue the general principle of allowing bank"! to carry on the business of bankers without the sbai eholders being liable to the pei sons ' whose money they leceive. It was not for him now to say anything against the principle, but still it behoved the Council to see that whilst allowing banks enormous privileges of trade, getting large profits without any liability, care *\ as taken such measuies were adopted as to bo a pietty sure guaiantee of things going on prospet ously. In England the piinciple of limited liability had been extended to joint stock bulks, a piinciple which the colony had up this time cousideied objectionable, so much so as to foibid the principle being extended to companies established for the puiposes of banking at.d insurance. So also with regard to the Act nllowiug paitnerships to be formed. The Joint Stock Act, 1562, in England, gave to banking and iusmauce companies the same facilities as to any other company. But the Act of 1562 made the shai eholders liable. 1c was a serious ccmjJl sidei.vtion, and one that should be borne in mind, that if any of the banks in New Zealand should become embarrassed, there was nothing by which an individual, holding a note of the bank representing a certain sum of money, would get any compensation. It was a bad state of tiling 5 !, and the Government would seiiously neglect its duty if it did not carefully and honestly look into such a state of things. There was also another pooint with lespect to these banks. The operations of the colony's Joint Stock Companies Act did not apply to banking tfnd insurance companies. It was applied for the piupose of facilijj tating the administration of the aflajn^of those veiy extensivo^operalions where they could not have applied to them the modes of procedure applicable to ordinary partnership. If tlwe was only a few peoplein the partneiship it wa- a fair matter to wind <ip, but not easy; where theie were hundreds in a paitnership it was a great dfHculty. There was no machinery in the colony for w riding up banks if any of them should become embanassed. In the last session of the Assembly ho had advised the Council to adopt a resolution calling upon the Government to introduce a general banking bill which should embrace these important question". It was n matter for the very serious cousideiation of the Council whether some exteusive measures should not be introduced, embiacing such vital questions and giving protection to the public, more especially with regard to the circulating medium which they possessed. Pi otcetion should be given to a poor man who took one of the notes of the bank as an equivalent value foi the same amount of coin. The Government would be guilty, and seriously so, towards the public if they allowed bod.es to be created with Mich vast (lowers without at the same time protecting the interests of the public generally. The Council divided on the motion whether the bill should be read a second time, which motion was carried by a majority, and the bill was accordingly read a second time.

OTAOO BANK? BIMi. Mr. W\ltou moved that this bill be read the first time. Mr. SnwELJi said ho would wish to impress upon •the Council _„,-<.-.- ~ — — , » -> --- Mr. Halli said he was sorry to interrupt the lion, gentleman, but he was out of order in entering into any discussion on the bill on the first reading. Mr. Snwixtj said it might be perfectly true the fust time, in comtesy to the Honse of Representatives, but he did not know that mombeis should be debarred from expressing their opinions. Major Wnmroitc said' he would read clause 02, winch enacted that a lull should be toad the Hist tune without discussion.

t'ANTrRIiURY (JHEVT NORTHERN AND (• VNTERIIUIIY fin EAT SOUTHERN R VILWAY BILLS. Mr. TTvLOsaid lie did not know whether there would bo any objection on the pait of the Council for these bills to be at once lead the second time. They would be referred to the committee, who would take evidence upon the bill from engii.ecrc and otheis. He should wish the bills to go at once to the committees. Colonel Rt'sSELL said he should oppose the aeaom^ reading of the bill. A discussion .should take plnOrj which could not be at the present time. Mr. Hall said that no discussion fchould takeJ place on private bills until the third reading. Colonel Russell said he would withdiaw his on-po-ition. 'I he bill was then read a second time. Mr. Whitaker said he should like to know from his lion, friend if no discussion could take place on the second reading, when a dibeusiiou could take place. Mi-. H ill stated that he did not say it was not open to the Council to open a discusMiou on the second reading ; but the usual custom was, \ipon the third leading-, after the bill had been to the committee, and repoited upon by them. Mr. Whitak.br &aid, from the way matters were going on, he thought it would be better to postpone discussion upon the bills until they were all parsed. (Laughter )

OI'AGO AND SOUTHIANT) INVESTMENT BILL. Mr. Walton moved the first leading of this bill. The question being put;, the Speaker declared the fnsfc reading carried by the ayes. One hon. gentleman, who had responded with, the noes, immediately aftorwaids asked what bill was under consideration. TUB PROVINCIAL COMPULSORY LAND TAKING ACT. Mr. Hall moved the second reading of this bill, which was carried.

PROTECTION OF ANIMALS BILL. This bill was brought foiwdid for the ptupose of the second reading. Mr. Crawford said, he did not consider this bill sufficiently full in its powers. He would not oppose it as a temporary measure, but lie hoped that dining the recess the Government would consider the expediency of bringing forwaid dining next session a mm o full, complete, aud comprehensive Act. Mr S-EWEMi said he wou 1 d ask the House to adjourn until 7 o'clock, for the purpose of taking into consideration varipns bills that would have passed the other House. Mr. IJ all proposed half-past 7 o'clock. Mr. Sewjsll had no objection. A division on the question of adjournment was called for, which was caiiicd by a inajoiily, and the Home thereupon adjourned until half-past seven o'clock. The Speaker took the chair at five minutes past 8 o'clock. Mr. Sewell stated that no bills were yet I'eady for the consideration of the Council, and he should therefore ask that the House adjourn until nine o'clock, which motion was cmied. The Speaker agaiu took the chair at nine o'clock, at which time there were just the number of members (15) present Requisite for the formation of a House. Mr. Sewell said he had to apologise to the Council for having taken a rather unusual course in asking them tlipm to meet at fo late an hour in the evening, but the necessities of the public service required it. He believed there would in a short time be sent down from the other House a bill for altering the customs duties. The measure was one of great importance. He would move "That all standing oidcrs be luspended for the purpose of enabling the bill relating to the alteration of the customs duties to be paised through all its stages." The motion was carried. The Spkakbr stated that he had received a further message from the House of Representatives, notifying that the following bills had also been passed :—: — A bill entitled an Act to euable Land to be taken foi Roads through the Native and other Districts of the Colony. Also, a bill to enable the Dunedin Waterwoi^k^ Company~{Limited) to make and maintain Watrfworks for , the Supply of Water, and other Purposes., These bills were read a first time, and ordered to be read a. second time to-morrow.

Mr/SRWBMi said, tlmt lie ■ would hbwlmpve'jbhivtb the sitfcingiot the '< Council to-morrow tafce-plaoe at* twelve o'clock, iv order that, by both Houses^sitting « together, no time might bo lost in tlio consideration of bills sent from the one Honso to tho other. „' At ten minutes pait one o'clook this morning the. Speaker announced that he had received Ti|fm«wage ' from the House of Representatives, transmitting abill intituled ' ' An Aot to rogulote the Customs Duties," and that the oonourreuoe of ( the Legislative Council was requested thereto. ' ''*- V<F *- Mr. Sewkll moved the first rending of the bill, which was carried ; also the second reading of the bill, jyhioh was likewise oarriod. the motion pf>Mr. Sewki^ .the House went into Committee. 1 \ ' ', f\ Mr. SicwkUj said'he would not detain tho Council by making any observations on the^ill, but would tho next day take an opportunity of explaining tho views of the Governor on matters of finance. , N Mr. Cra.wtoito object»d tothepiinclple of the lill ; but still as the passing of the samo was a pressing necesnity, and the 'customs of the country would be endangered by thob^ll not passing, he should not oppose it. He hoped, however, the Governor would re-con-sidflr some of the duties charged in the' hill, more especially with regard to wines, which he thought ought to be brought within leach of the poor man. A great change had taken place in England on this subject, and he believed that the result would prove very soon that as much duty was raise by the present reduced sum of Is. per gallon as when the duty stood at the .higher rate. He did net think the alteiation would tend to increase the quality of the wine, and he should like to see a reduction in all classes of wine alike, so that all could giatify their natural taste. He would quote a vorse in illustration of his views, although he might not do so oxactly :—: — \ Firm and erect the Cnlcdomnii stood, High was his sim it and his wlusXey good ,—, — Lot him diink Poit, the English Minister ciied,— Jli! (hank the poison, smd he died Mr. SkweUi wil lie could not then alter the bill. Sir George Auni:y aiked when the bill would take effect in the Southern provinces. Mr. Sns\i:r,L said that question had been raised in the other House. It would, of course, be impossible to fiv a day for the bill to take effect in the Southern province, but instructions would be sent out on the fiujt opportunity to the several collectors of qustoms. bill was then passed thiough committee with_out alteiation, leportcd, read a third time, and passed, and transmitted to the House ofßopiosentatives. The Kousc then adjourned at half-past 1 o'clock until 12 o'clock this day.