PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. TUESDAY, APRIL 7, 1863.

Daily Southern Cross, Volume XIX, Issue 1784, 8 April 1863, Page 4

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. TUESDAY, APRIL 7, 1863.

The Speaker took the cliair at three o'clock. The minutes of the previous sederunt were lead and confitmed. THE TAMAKI BRIDGE. Mr. Fomy brought up. the Following report :— "Tl>o committee appointed to report ami consider the best means of ereotiug a hridga over the Tamaki river at Paumurehave the honor to repoit as follows : — " Your committee having considered the plaus submitted to the Council dm ing lnst sessidh, and having examined several professional men, not only respecting these plans, but with lefercnco to the form of biidgc, site, &.c, are of opinion, that a sni,pon«ion bridge is oue best adapted for the icquirements of the traffic and navigation of the liver. " That the site in the apex of the left bank of the Tamaki, about three chaius lower, show that the punt at Panmure is the bust for the proposed site. " That a respectful addVcs3 bo presented to his houor the Superintendent, requesting bun to place the sum of £15,000 on the Emposvering Act, to be raibed under the Loan Act, 1803, for this purpose, and that the w ork be proceeded with as soon as the Supeiintcndent and the Executive aio satisfied that the guaianteo to bo given by the land owners on the east side of the Tamaki nud elsewhere is sufficient to provide for both interest and sinking fund. - " Tluat the interest be at the rate of 6 per cent , and 4 per cent, sinking fund. James Folt.y, Chairman. " Council Chamber, Auckland, " April 7, 1563." The repoit was read, and on the motion of Mr. FoM'A* oulered to be pi in ted. Mr. Foi.fa also gave notice that he would move the adoption of the icport on Thursday. riHVATE GKIEVANCRS. -» Sir. Wyxn brought up iuteiim repoit, No. 3, of the Piivate Grievance Committee. Oideied to lie on the table. ACCLIMATISATION SOCIHTV. Mr. King moved the following motion • — "That in the opinion of this Council it is iTesiiable to encourage and piomote the efforts now being made by the Acclimatisation Society of Auckland, and that an address be piescnted to his honor the Superintendent, ieque=tsng him to communicate with the General-Government, soliciting that a suitible site may be set apait in the Domain, and handed over to trustees for the purposes and uses of the society." In moving this,, he lefened to~the great benefits which the acclimatisation plans of the society would confer on the pi o\iuce, and pointed out the desirability of having a space set apait in the Domain for its use. There wa3 now no place to send buds and animals to on their armal fioin England, and theie iveie a large number soon expected to arihe. The Domain would be made more attractive to visitors were a grant of laud made to the Acclimatisation Society, akd placed under the control of trustees appointed by the society. Mr. bT.fc.WAUT seconded the motion. Captain Daldi heartily appuned of the motion. He believed the occupation of a space of giound in the Government Domain would mal.e them mmc ornamental aud attiaclive to the public, quite apait fiom the usefulness of the tociety. Mr. Huskop was afiaid the e\is,tiii(j arrangements, with regard to leading the glass lands of the Domain, would pievent the Govetmr entertaining the application for a giant of land. He was most an\i>us to piomote the interests of the society, but he thought the site for its operations could not now be had in the quaiter named. It was quite ceitain that only by unpoitmg aud acclimatising useful birds, auimals, and fishes, could they hope to sec the (u lds and meis of this couutiy stocked in the saino way as m the old country. It was desiiable to accomplish thus end, for many ien«oiis, aud some plico inu&fc be provided for their loception on ai rival. AVith legaul to fi«-li (lie did jiot speak of sea fish) ho thought many nver lish miglit easily be intioduced to our mci«, which would be a souice of pleasure mid profit in future ye.iis. Dr. Potu.v haid he was anxious to piomote the inteiests of the Acclimatisation Society, but it was not practicable to get a giant in fee of a piecu of land in the Government Domain. The Go\cinoi had no power to make any such grant, nor was there any autliouty by which it was possible to hand over land m trust to trustees appointed by the Acclimatisation Society. He was sutislkd, however, tho gentlemen of the society might ha\o the use of a piece of laud m the Domain, if that would suit their puipo^e. Mi. King replied. He mentioned that a gentleman connected with the society (Mr. James Willianibon) bad offered as a fiee grant, fi\e acres of land on the west side of the city. That oflfei had not been lefuscd, but ithad not been finally accepted, as the members knew that a laigc outlay would be neces«aiy at the outset to piowde pioper shelter; but he might add that the land so offered was wortli ,£1,500. They did not want a giant in fee of the land, but they leqnired eithei a long lea^e or au absuiance that they would have undis turned possession, which would be necessaiy for the puiposfcs of the society. As to Mr Ilanop'b objection that the grass land was leised, he had to say thit the leased land w ould be of no u»d to tho society ; they wanted a sheltered spot, and theie vveie many suitable places in the Domain. The motion was then put and carried unanimous,]/. BOTVNICVL GARDEN". Mr. Kivg mo\ed "That an address be piesented to his honor the Superintendent, requesting him to commumoatj with the Geneial Government with a view of having a suitable site in the Domain set apai t for a Botanical Gaiden, to bo vested in the names of tiustees to be appointed in connection with the Auckland Uoiticultural Society." lie commented on the want of a public garden in Auckland, and urged that the action taken by the Hoiticultur.il Society would enhance the attractions of the Domain to the public. The motion was agieed to without discussion. IMPOUNDING ACT. Mr. Bi'.OOKFiFiiD moved for leave to lning in a Bill repealing the 12th aud 34th sections of tho Impounding Act, ISjG, and to be entitled "Tho Impounding Act Amendment Act, ISG3." lie explained, as his reason, that the owncis of unfenced cultivated giound, had power, under the existing Act, of impounding cattle tiespassiug upon it, which he did not consider fair. Mr. Row r. seconded the motion. Mr. King said if the member for Ondiunga had been attending to his duties during the session, he would have known that a special committee had been appointed by the Council to consider the Impounding Act. That committee was now sitting, and Mr. Biookfield, without knowing what report they would bring up, was attempting to forestall the committee, and pledge the Council to a rcitain opinion befoie they had the lesult at which the committee bad arlived before them. Mr. Shlehan opposed the motion on similar grounds. Mr. Stewart and Mr. Hvrhop likewise opposed the motion. Tlie latter gentleman said the proper course for Mr. Brookfield to pursue was to biing his objections before the committee, and give them the benefit of his opinion. Mr. Mvy opposed the motion. He saiJ Mr. Biookfield might as well tell the Council that if a shopkeeper left his shop open, any one who passed had a right to go in and take away his goods, as to tell them that cattle trespassing on unfenced grass lands should not be impounded. Mr BnooKFir.ED replied, and the motion was negatived on the voices. CROWN VRO^FOI'TOIt. Mr. Bkookfield moved the following resolution : — " That a rebpectful address be presented to his honor the Superintendent, requesting him to put a sum of £40a on the Estimates as a salary for a public pio3ecutor." He said there was really no professional gentleman responsible for getting up and conducting the criminal prosecutions in this piovince. It was true there was a gentleman who was termed the Crown prosecutor, but in reality he only held a brief in the Supreme Court as a banister conducting the prosecution. This was tv most unsatisfactory state oE things, and he had been induced to put this notice on the paper in consequence of certain remarks made by the Chief Justice at the last criminal sessions of the Supreme Court. The Chief-Justice said that in future he would not allow any gentleman to conduct a prosecution unless he was a party to the suit, or instructed by an attorney, or appeared as both attorney and barrister in the case. It was, therefore, desirable that some person should be appointed, who would be required to give bis whole time and attention to the duty of getting up and conducting criminal cases — to conduct them in the police court, and see that the proper witnesses are forthcoming, instead of leaving all that duty to the Commissioner of Police, as at present, who should not be called upon to do it. Mr. Ball seconded the motion. Mr, King opposed it. He thought a new office should not be created. If it were necessary to appoint a Crown Prosecutor they might add £100 a year to the salary of the Provincial Law Officer, and call upon him to attend to the criminal business in. the province on behalf of the Crown. Captain Daldy admitted that the prosecution, in criminal coses, on behalf of the Crown, was in as uu•atisfaefcory a «tate, o> could be. A remedy was absolutely required;, but ii t t was a subject on which the Government had not Had time He thought the .mode o£ forwarding,' evidence in criminal coses, by coroners and magistrates from the country, required looking into, with the "view of improvement;* but lie could not nay liour thia wm to be accomplished. If .

Mr. BrookfieW withdrew his motion, ho would promise him that the Government would give the question their host attention. Mr. Eowe opposed the motion. HosAid no country in the woild, to the size and population, had so many salaiied law ofticeisj There was jvh Attorney-Genoial and an Assistant Law-Officer ; theia wete also Piovincial Law officers, and it did seem stiauge to him that with so mauy lawyers in the pay of the public they could not get one to conduct tho ciiminal cases ou the pait of the Ciow'n. If there was anything which pioved the absindity of the system of Government under which they lived it wns this. (Hear.) lie thought if .-in}' appointment was to be inndo, the duties should be added to thoso of tho Piovincinl Law Officer, with a mndeiato salary ; but ho would object to an incie.nse of £400 a-year. His opinion was that the piovinco might veiy welt do without a number of its offieeis. If tlmy'begau to prune aud economise, they would havo moie money to lay out on toads. (Hear.) Mr. Wvfrjr said tho duties of the office contemplated in the motion, could not bo attached to the law officeiship of tho piovince, and he, for one, would decline nndeilnking them. The question laised by the Chief Justice was one for the colony at Luge and not for tho piovince, and the Gene'al Government should enteit.viu it. It was a gie«,t evil (and he did not know who was to bo held lcsponsible for it) when the old system of conducting criminal prosecutions, which innde it a General Go\ eminent question, was altered, Formeily, he understood, the Geuer.il Government paid the costs in euminal prosecutions to the professional men who conducted them, and deducted the amounts fiom the pioviuces when making the financial settlements. That system woiked better, for then theie was a professional man lesponsible for the conduct of the case ; but now, if they appointed a Ciown Piosecutor at £1,000 a year, the objection of the Chief Justice would not be lcmoved. They had a gentleman who was named Crown Piosecutoi, but his duties were confined simply to holding a biief for tho piosecution in tho Supreme Coiut, for which he was paid a certain fee. But he uns not iusli uctcd by any one responsible to the Court; ho was instructed, as tho Chief Justice had said, by depositions ; and in cases of faihue, of which there had been one at the List sessions, the Comt had no ono who tould be held accountable for the neglect. What the Chief Justice wanted was some one responsible to the Court for the conduct of criminal piosoculions, and any salaiy they mijht pay a piofessioital man could not alter the case. 'Jhe fact was a Crown Piosecutor was an officer unknown to the English law, and the Governor had no power to ap point any such officer. Ho believed sorue such authoiity existed in tiekuul,- as to Scotland, he did not know ; but in luigland and Wales the office was unknown to the law. The juity piosecutiug in criminal cases employed what attorney lie thought pioper, and the attorney handed a biief aud fee to such banister a-s lie- might select, and aftei the tii.il tho bill of costs was pietented to the pioper officer of the Co'iit, and taxed, and paid out of the Consolidated Fund. But theie was no such ofticei as Ciown Pio^ccutor. In cues v heie justice faded thiough what tho Cum t might suppise neglect or mismanagement, the solicitor having the conduct of the case was odled before the Com t, and his cosh were disallowed. Now, it was not in the Supivine Court that cases failed. The public did not see the gctling-up of a case fiom a newapipei lepoit. It was at the preliminary inquiiy before the magi»tiate«, and taking caie to select the pioper class of evidence to brincf forvvaid that a case either succeeded or failed. ]f the Legislating passed an Act authorising the appointment of a Crown Piosecutoi, the Chief Justice would not lecognibC such an oflieer; and aftei the veiy just reniaik-. of his Honor, that he would not lecogniso any one piosecut ing unless piopetly inati uctcd, ho was sine no piofessiou.il gentleman wuuld appear in the Com t to conduct a case unless duly nistiueted. This was a Genet .il Government question, however, and unless some piessuie was put upon them to effect a change, ciiinmal justice would not be piopeily administered in the colony. They would hear complaints veiy shoilly fiom all the otlur piovinccs on tho^uue subject. Mr. C\mtvN believed the law officer of the ])iovince should conduct the curninal pioscculions m the comt. Mi. A Liny Maktin' said the question ought not to have come befoie them at all ; it was a question for tho Executive Council. ]n England, tho Secietaiy foi State left the gcntiy of the vaiious counties to do this and vtiy pioud they weie to attend to it. As to £100 a-jear being a sufficient sum for the purpose of conducting the ciiniiual prosecution;:, he believed it would be found a veiy much Lugu 1 sum would bo lcquued when th's lnipottint duty was well peifoimed. (Hear ) The whole tiling was a disgrace to the counti v . The Giand Juiy had been kept two hours waiting l oi a witness at the last sitting of the .Supreme Comt, and as lie did not appeal, a prisoner escaped fiom custody without being put upon his tual. He was glad tins case had occuired with a M.ioii, for it would make tie Geneial Government attend to the matter, lest such a thing should occur again, lie had hopes, therefoie, the whole matter would be taken out of their hands. Mi. ynr.FHAX apjnoved of the appointment, and thought £400 a year too small a «alaiy. Mr. Bkookfilld ie)iiied, when the motion was put to the and lost ou the voices. PROVINCIAL B\L\NCnS. Dr. Polled moved the follow ing lesolution : "That the Message, No. 47, of his honor the .Superintendent, be lefeiied to a Select Committee, to consist of Messis. Ball, Martin, liowe, Williams, Wynn, and the mover ; and that it be made an instruction to the committee to consider the statements made officially by the Provincial Tieosurer in his place in Council, on the motion for the second leading of the ' Appropiiation Bill, 18G3, 1 in icferenceto the 'monetary position 'of the province on the 31st January last, and to teport whether or not tnese statements ucie true, liepoit to be bi ought up on Wednesday next." — In doing so,' he said he felt himself compelled, by a sense of duty, to take thepioceeding in this matter he was about to take Ho w.is in hope, when the lepoifc of the Audit Committee was biou^ht up the other day befoie the Council, that his duty in this matter was at an end. It would have giren him very great plnasure to have then allowed the matter to drop. He was in hope":, when the severe ccnsuie of the Provincial Tieasurer was read in the Council and adopted, that in accoidance with a foimer assmance given by the lion, gentleman (Capt Daldy) in the Council, tint if any censuie was passed on him for doing that which, on his own confession he did do, he would bow to the decision of tho Council in acknowledgment that he deserved it But when, in the face of that giave condemnation, the lion, gentleman told them that he did not think the censure of the Council implied any imputation upon iiis chntneter, he (Dr. Pollen) was betrajed into an expression of indignation and dissatisfaction, wliich bi ought down upon him the icproof of the hon. member for tho subuibs (Mr. Cheeseman), who is himself a model of propriety of behaviour in the hoiu-e at all times. (A laugh.) On a foimer occasion, when introducing this, he had been careful to do so in a manner as little ofiensive as could be, consistent with the f lets he had to open to the Council. He had then put it upon an official issue; but owing to ciicumstances which had transpired, and which lie had since discovered, he was obliged to put another i^sne to the Council. He was obliged to nsk the Council, as it was in effect in the motion he had moved, whether or not any member of this Council may stand up in his place, and make statements to the Council which aie not consistent v, itli the facts, without having any imputation passed upon his character ? He asked the Council to express an opinion, whether the gentleman who is pioperly the leader of the Council, and to whom the Council look upon all subjects for official information, and on whose statements they ought to be able to rely, can stand up in his official capacity, and for any purpose make use of statements diiectly tho opposite of the f.vct, and be able to bay, haviug attempted for any purpose to ini«lead tho Council, that these statements can bo made without leaving any imputation upon the peisonal chaiacter of that gentleman ? He had been accustomed to believe that no gentleman could toll an untruth without discredit. Aud he had also been accustomed to believe (and he hoped tho Council likewise believed) that the occasion ou which the statement was mado was one which lequired, and on which the Council should insist, for a faithful statement on the pait of those who aie intrusted withthepublicbusinessof the Council. There was no need for him to go into any aigument on the subject. The (acts of tho cose were admitted. He founded his motion upon message No. 47 of his honor the Superintendent. That message was in leply to an address of the Council, aud contained a return giviug certain financial information to the Council. That information shows that upon a certain day there was in a bank in this city the sum 0£, £5,000, which was there thiee weeks before; it shows that the statement made by the hon. gentleman, the Provincial Treasurer, in moving the second ' reading of the A ppropriutipn Aot, in refeience to tho financial position of the proviuce on the 31st of January, was not a correct one and,according to truth. He wanted, therefoie, that these facts should be placed on record, and that the Council shpuld have an opportunity (which lie n,ow afforded > # them) j>f showing that it is their opinion, that a statement' absolutely anddiametiically the opposite of fact, cannot be made officially in^thu, Cojinoil, by,, a-j'meuib^r ojf ths Government, without leaving the imputatio / a.of untruth anUiof. having told 'a falsehood upon tlie^chavac^teiLof that hpn, gentleman. , Thelfacts as, he ( had said^wcrs; perfectlyplain,and it would not requirol very, long to .' como,to a conclusion. ; Dr. Pollen cpncl«d t ed : by; reading ,' hii motion) ' "' ' "> ' -' / A pause ensued, without a seconder being found for

the motion. ' The Speaker asked twico if the motion wa"s seconded, wh'en'Mr. BAUi bowed as seconder. Mr. BROOKFiEriD likewiso bowed j but "Mr. Ball had the pieoedenoo. >vJ ' ' ' Mr. Williams : I move that the Council do now proceed to consider the outers of the day. Mr. JttNG piottstccl against this,amendmeut,andsuggested its withdiawal. The Question should be discussed ou its merits, and not biuked. The Hpkakhh ruled Mr. King out of order ; and the motion by Mr. Williams was put to the vote and lost by a majority of one. The following voted :—: — Ayes, 12: Messrs. George, May, Stow ait, IV fat tin, Wyiin, O'Neill, McKenzie, .Ross, Cheesenmn, B.ttoman, Hattray ; Williams, teller. Noes, 13 :' Messi*. Foloy, Mediae, King, Kerr, Han op, Lynch, Bnli, Cadman, Biook/ield, liowe, Lundou, Sheebnn ; Pollen, teller. The debate was theu taken on Dr. Pollen's motion. Mr. Kino opposed the motion. He did not see any .good tint would como out of it, and ho hoped the lno'ver would wilhdiaw it. The question had ahendy been before the Council in the report of the Audit Committee, and the conduct of tbo Provincial Tieasurer had leceived that amount of censuie which the Council and the committee deemed proper for the offence, and there was theiefoio no icason for opening it up again. The lion, gentleman had likewise in the Council, ami befoio the committee, admitted the fact, and expressed his legietthat it should have occuued; and he did not know what more was required of him. No public end could bo seived by the motion For his own part, after a careful review of the facts ho did not think any discredit attached to the PioviucialTieasuier. It was an en or of judgment and not of intention. There was no attempt to puiloin or übcthe money : and the eirorbad been committed from an over anxiety to keep the accounts of the province clear, so that eveiy hou. niein ber could undeistaud them. * Mr. Foley was astonished at the attempt made by two members of the executivo to shut out debate oix this motion. Ho opposed the motion. Tbo provinci.il tiensuier had apologised fi»r the ofienco, and no moic could be nslced of him. Ifc could not be mended now. Besides, the money had been piopeily lodged in bank. Mr Kkkr agieed with Mr. King that no good could result fiom this committee if appointed. After the seveie censure passed upon the Prouncial Tieasurer by the Audit Committee, Dr. Pollen should have been s-atisfied, and allowed the matter to drop. He thought it bordued upon vindictiveness to cany it any fuithor, and he believed it was in that light the Council would view it. They all believed Mr. Daldy had committed an error, but it was an en or of judgment. It w.is not wilfully nor intentionally clone; and in the f. ice of the action aheady taken it should have been dioppcd. It was voiy possibly the movei, when head of the Executive, iecei\ed some haul Knocks from the Piovincial Tie.ismer, but he had since repaid them with in Iciest. Uc had known Mi. D.ildy for twenty yeais, and ho believed him incapable of knowingly doing an unwoi thy act. Mi. H UJTtOP was soiry this question was In ought up ac;ain, for he had hoped, when the subject was fonneily beforo the Council, it would havo been piopeily ventilated and discussed. Ho believed thou that the lion, gentleman at the head of the Executive had fully condoned and explained his mistake. If they weio to open and discuss (his mistake— discussing the incuts and dement* of the question — they might prolong the debate, but they would at the end be in no better frame of mind in iegaid to it than at the piesont tune. Ho was sorry that the question had been opened up, but at the same time as it had been so opened, be would disuc to have the fullest inqniiy. If there was nothing wrong, and tlieic bad only been a mistake, theie should bo no attempt to stifle inquiry. (Hear.) If, however, it was the wi-.li of the Council to du>p the matter, he was agiceablo to that couise. With legard to the woids spoken by any hou. member being inquiied into, ho thought it an unfortunate pinceduie, foi they all knew that occasion dly they weie icpoited as haying used expressions which iv their calmer moments they would not use, or which a little mine thought would modify. Ho conft <ssed in ltfei once to this matter he felt surprised lint with Mich ample nppoitunity aflbided to mombeis to diicuss it, it had Leen passed with such apathy at the time the audit repoit was brought up. Mr. Shu'.hajj opposed the motion. If theie was to be an iiujimy, let it be in open Council. Mr. Lynch was likewise opposed to the motion of Di. Pollen. The lion, gentleman bad confessed his fault, and it would be cowaidly in the Council to go further into it. Ho did not know whether he^ould impute any blame to the Executive for Mr. YVilhanWs amendment ; but he did" think the Council should censuie that gentleman for attempting to bmke Ibis question. After that attempt, ho could not help thiiiljing tint there was some motive for dealing with the .£5,000 as had been tbne, which did not come out. It was not clear on his mind that theie was not something beyond ignoi.moe. He hoped Dr. Pollen would withdraw his motion. Captain Dai.dy said it was not his intention to 10veit to the circumstances of the motion. He had said all that a man could say ; and he would say no inoie oi the matter, except in reply to one lemiik of Mr. Lynch. He begged to a=sme tiiat gentleman that, whatevei \ahie hi-, woid might bo, he had no covei t motive in tins transaction ; theie was the desiio to separate the revenue of the past year from the piesent But he wished he could say so much foi the motive of the lion, mover, who wished to lecord upon the books of the Council, that he (Captain Daldy) had told a ho ; for that was the plain English of his motion A lie consists in the conscious knowledge of a man whon ho speaks that ho speaks what is fal c ; a falao statement, made undesiquedly, is not a Ho, and he affirmed, befoie the Council, that when ho made that statement he made it with the consciousness that it was collect. The hon. mover, when he brought the matter befoie the Council on the first occasion, made it an official matter ; now he put it npoi: another issue. He (Cnpt. Daldy) took that issue to be a pcisonal one. He was quite prepaicd to take the lion, gentleman up on that issue, although he had no desiie that cither bis veiacity oi chaiacter should be placed in comparison with those of the mover (Di Pollen). Very far ftom it The lion, gentleman said that ho (Captain Daldy) stated things contiaiy to fact. He admitted it ; but the impiession upon his mind was not contiaiy to the statement. The facts in the caic aie so simple that there is no room for discussion, and ifc might be left here, but it is natural, after a man who is accused says all that a man can say — says, "I am wiong," — if the accusation be pushed into a pei sonal matter, to tetoi t upon his accuser But he would not descend to personal matters as between him (Cnpt. D.ild}) and tho lion, member ; he would take his (Dr. Pol'en's) official character, and would tell him to day that be committed f.ir giavcr faults, as piovincial tieasurer, than he (Captain Daldy) had dono, and ho felt that he was piepnred to prove it. Ho would call the .attention of the Council to the trust funds of the piovince. Now, the trust funds of the province — the money laised upon trust for thr city of Auckland, was, without appiopiintion or vote of Council, used for other purposes. He said that that was not an erior of thought ; it was not an error of mind, but a deliberate act of appiopiiation beyond the law. Tho Grammar School Trust of the province had been accumulating for several years, and dining the time Dr. Pollen held tho post of Provincial Treasurer, he believed (and the lion, gentleman would not dispute the fact) that there were times when the funds of that tiust weie used for other than trust purposes, and that no credit ever was given for any. interest on the money so taken from tho trust Ho bad no desire to bring this matter np again. The trust accounts were now settled, but when the hon. mover was bent on driving this matter homo to him (Captain Daldy) he should have remembered these things, and that lie was also driving him to look back to the past. He had forced him to look back to another transaction ; and he did not envy tho personal feelings of the hon. gentleman in making this chaigo again3t him, when ho must have remembeied his conduct to him under similar circumstances, vile had said "similar circumstances." Tho hon. gentleman was tieasurer of a fund ; he was publicly called to account for that fund ; and lie (Captain Daldy) who had no iuteicsfc in it whatever, but animated simply by the desire to see justice done, voluntarily stepped forward and took upon himself the oneious duty (because it was an onerous duty when rumour had fixed a charge upon it) of seeing the matter cleaied up. And lie appealed to the hon. gentleman whether there weie not error* in the account. But they were not errors of intent. ITe did not deprive the fund of one farthing j be did not desire to take one half-penny ; ho even added to it what be ought not. But was it not an error ? Had Dr. Pollen acted on this occasion in the' sumo way towards him (Captain Daldy) ? Far from it. He (Captain Daldy) hod gone, out of his own walk and- place to do to the hon. gentleman substantial justice, and he felt no regret at doing «o; although he had' that day been.rewarded by conduct to whioh he was not entitled in return. , He had, however,i "done' his duty as a, citizen towards,. Dr. .Pollen,,, and would «ay no more on personalmatters. With regard to the- subject jbeforo the Council, he had only one appeal totinake — namely, if, the Council desire to inquire into this matter, let the inquiry go as .far as they think fib, but he claimed; as a right that the inquiry bo held in open Counoil, ;go ' .that aIC-»-\vb.o; heard; his word* < might^Have anf oppojrttinity,Afi'iudging ( of « his intents .wjiOjfhear^cyiilmjUwpijld-be .lfettep^tultij toTjudce^ffiol matter than any committee, - He bad been guilty of > an error lu -judgment, and notu'ng more. He wm

piepaied to meet the charge in nny shape or form it was preferred, but ho claimed the right to have the inquiry in, open Counoit. . ( Mr. . Rowe supported tho motion., 'He thought the dismission was not uncalled for, and would be of use to the hon. gentlema^ who had made so great a blunder in regard to the financial condition of the pi evince He thought a reference! to the 'past was piofitable, and ho ' could not refe'r'to thb past withbut feeling. ' Last session the reference to the affairs of the Government, and especially to financial matteiu, was not maiked by the apiiit of forbeavanco j and ho was quite sure that if the present piovincial treasurer had, last year, diweovpred such a blunder (to call by the mildest name the late financial proceedings) in the accounts of the late Provincial Government, not only in the Council but in the comers of the sticets, the matter would have been 'discussed and made tho nutit of. It seemed stiange to him that after Captain Daldy's labouts in finance, after all the commercial knowledge he had obtained, and after talking of keeping the provincial accounts clear and distinct, that he committed this error. It was a Btmnjro way to keep accounts clear to put £5,000 avay in a corner, for as for any information the Council possessed when the statement was made it was pcifectly in a corner. He did not wonder at the course puisued by the mover, and if he had been placed in similar circumstances, and had the ability, he would have done the same tiling. lie thought Dr. Pollen deserved the thanks of the Council, for if it had not been for him the Council would not have known of this .-Co, ooo till nc\t year when the accounts came up, and when the revenue would have been mci eased by .£5,000 mcro than it should have been. He could not help thinking that the mothe of tho honorable the Piovincial Tieaiurer, in this matter, was to make the monetaiy position of tho piovince, at the time of his taking office, as unfavouiable to the late Piovincinl Government as could be. He had found all his financial piedictions falsified on taking office, and had adopted this plan of lessening tho balance on hand. The Audit Committee had likewise shown a desire to put the veiy best const) notion on the hon. gentleman's act*. Mr. I?owe concluded by expiessing the opinion that the provincial accounts would bo hopelessly involved through the incompetence />f the Piovincial Treasiuer, should he continue two or tin ee years in office. [Dining Ins speech Mr. Eowo was interrupted by Captain Daldy, who explained certain matters, and by Mr. King, who called him to order for his lcferenco to tho Audit Committee. Standing Older No. 30 was suspended to allow him to proceed.! Mr. Wyns next addicsod the Council, and opposed the motion. The mover had not told thorn what statement they weio to inqinie into and determino; his motion being consequently \a<rue and woi tiller. If lie wanted to move a vote of censure the straightforward and manly course would be to withdraw this motion, and move a vote of censure on the Provincial Treasiner for his dealing with the £5,000. But the mover, having caiefully selected a committee which would biing in the rcpoit he wanted, wished to shun discussion anil get «soniethiiigon the i ecoi ds of the Council by that means, which he would quote fiom time to time against tho Piovincial Tieasuier when it suited his piupose. Mr. Wynn then lefeired to the fact that neithei the mover nor Mr. Hiookfkld, who supported him in this motion, weie constant attendants in the house, and evpressed his opinion that when this question was settled, they would make a polite bow and leave tho Council. If tho object of the mover was to censure the Provincial Tiensurer, let him movo a vote to that effect, and not ask for a committee on Tuesday to biing upaiepoit of suuhimpoitanco on Wednesday, which could not be done. Mr. Ciir.r.sruAX opposed the motion, and criticised the speeches of Mr. Piowo and Dr. Pollen. He said he was sure the lesult of the motion would be f.ir moie ovei whelming to the mover than to the Pio\incial Tieasuier. It did not lequirc aigument to induce the Councd to come to an adveiso vote. He was so fully satisfied with the superior judgment, integiit}', and honesty of the hon. gentleman at the head of tho Executive in the Council, and of his sound judgment, that ho was quite prepared to leave the matter in tho hands of the Council. He was convinced the Council would view the system of opposition now got up by the member foi the City East as so utteily woithkss of fuillifcr considciatiou, and so absolutely pcisonal and useless in itself, that by a unanimous decision they will give a warning to such gentlemen as may seem to take the couise of injuring an honeit and upright man. Di. Por.LFX leplied. 110 recapitulated the f.icts, and charged the Pio\inci.il Ticasmei with intentionally misleading the Council. On tho 10th of January he uct'ived £5,000, which he had not bi ought to account until the Ist Fcbiuaiy, and on the2Snl or 21th of Maich he made a statement to the Council with respect to the disposal of this money which he infouned the Council was made "unknowingly." Capt.iin D vtiDY denied using the phtase. Dr. Poi.M-.ii appealed to the Council ; ho had taken it down. The hon. gentleman had attacked him personally, and accused him of not imitating his conduct. But it would bo in the recollection of tho Council that during last session he had pursued him (Dr. Pollen) in his official capacity with untning malignity. If theie had been anything in his official conduct that could have been bi ought befoie the Council, ho knew with what pleasure tho hon. gentleman would havo have lepoited it to the Council, and, constituted as the Council then was, and with its temper, he had no doubt of the coin c -e they would have pnisued tow aids him. The Council would not have received from him an acknowledgment that a giavc oini«sion was done " unknowingly." The lion, gentleman would have been among the liist to laugh at it as a fl imsy excuse. Captain Daldy. — You have made au assertion— l deny it. Dr. Pollen could only judge of what would have happened on an occasion which did not arise, and could not have arisen, fiom what had really taken place; but the lion, gentleman having now nothing woise to say of him, stated that he (Dr Pollen) was a paity to sonic impioper dealing with the City Tiust funds. Captain Daldy lequested to be f.viily quoted. lie had said as treas>uier of the piovince, he (Dr. Pollen) was cognizant of the use of those funds. Dr. Pollbn : That was quite tiue. It was the old bugbear on which so much stiess had been laid las>t session. He was cognizant of the fact that by an Act of Council these funds were perverted fiom their use for some time, that they weio impounded by the Oriental Bank to pay off a debt contracted under the authority of the Council, and which the Council would not give the power to ilischat go. But whatever wcic the facts, lfe never came down and stited that the facts weie so when they wcie not so. Tlio Provincial Treasurer was not able to say as much. With respect to the claims for consultation for sei vices done him — Captain Daldy — I do not claim for soi vices done ; I only did my duty. Dr. Pollen — The hon, gentleman alluded, he supposed, to the Patriotic Fund, and spoke as if ho was treasurer of that f uinT He knew that ho (Dr. Pollen) was not treasurer but secretary. Tfo kept the account of tho amounts and nothing else ; and it had been imported into the discussion to-night with a purpose which he would not permit himself to say, more than it was singulaily woithy of the whole course of the hon. gentleman and his coufreics with logard to that affair. Captain Daldv — I do trust the hdn. gentleman will explain his wonls that lefer to me. (Hear.) The Speaker — Order. You must not interrupt the member so often. Dr. PoLLra then replied to the remarks of M.r. Wynn and Mr. Cheeseman, and concluded by inviting the Council to consider the grave question they weie going to decide — whether any member might stand up in his placo and make statements which were untrue, without an imputation upon his character ? Whether the gentleman having the lead of public business, and supposed to possess the confidence of the> Superintendent (the keeper of his conscience), can in Council make statements, carefully piepared for a purpose, avowedly untrue, and then, when the eon sine of tho Council is passed upon him, declare that these statements are no imputation upon liis character ? If that could be done none of the respectable portion of the public would dcsiie to belong to the Council. The Couucil divided :—: — For tho motion, C : Messrs. Harrop, Biookfield, Kowe, Cadman, Ball, Pollen. Against tho motion, 16 : Messrs. Martin, Bateman, ftattiay, George, O'Neill, May, Williams, Wynn, Kerr, Lynch, Eoss, McKenzio, King, Stewart, Lundon, Cheeseman. The Council then adjourned for an hour. Tho Council 'then adjourned for an hour ; and resumed at 25'miuutes past spven o'clock. ohdeus or the day. The report of the Water Supply Committee was read and 'moved for adoption by Captain Daldy. He •aid it wad true' the supply of water from tho proposed source would be somewhat limited ; and it would be. for the Counoil to decide whether they weio of ppiuion that it would be desirable to expqnd the money contemplated by the report. He ttusted no hasty conclusion (Would, be.arriyed at, but that the question would haye 'every consideration (at their hands. He iquite agreed with the statement at the end of the report that 'those who ; wore' f benefited by 1 tho water supply should pay for the convenience. He, liowever, believed ( the inhabitants who would be' favoured in this respect, ■"wpuld not', grudge the \vhich would be do'm'anded. -'J There' had, bfeenU ile&rtaid about/ tlie water 'whiolr could bo obtained from Mount < Edon-HMtn' Meuro. Seccombes Brewery, and possibly 'at gome future day the Counoil would find themielyei in the

position to conneot the two streams of water. It was to be oonsiileied whether they were in a position at pienont to adopt a scheme which would require expensive worUs in the way of machinery. He would leave the subject in the hands of the Council. Mr Gkougk meonded the motion, that the report be adopted. Mr. Cabman moved — "That the subject be'*considered in a committee of the whole house," and which, on being put, wiv- earned. Tho Council then went into committee on the report. Mr. llarkop did not' think tho Council wore inn position to considei the report that evening', seeing that tho Council must be very deficient in iufbuniition on the question., Ho would he quite willing to support any suggestion could it be shown thnt tho scheme would he one which would ensure repayment of the money expended. Mr Cadman objneted to the adoption of the report. Tlio citi/oni generally would receive no relief from tho want of water — only a few persons being benefited by the supply. Any person reading the evidence taken befoie the committee would he convinced of the foolishness of thu scheme pioposed. It was stated on one authority that 20,000 gallons per day would be seemed fiom the Domain spiing, and thjn would be spiead tlnougli six miles of piping. The six miles of piping liad, however, been afterwaids reduced to two miles, lie beliuved the calculations on which tho project was based wore entiiely unwoithy of credence lie believed that weie a true test applied to tho Domain spiing, the result would prove that 16,000 or 17,000 gallons per day would be neater tho tiulh than the 20,000 or 23,000 gallons which had been stated to be obtainable there. The pioject to chaige those who used the water would not pay anything towards expenses — on 20,000 gallons. The lion, member at the Lend of the Executive must be well an ate thnt the tax could not be levied — could not bo lecovored. Tiien with legaul to tho supply of watci at Mount Eden It miibt 1)0 apparent to the members of the Council, thnt weie they to take water fiom Mount Eden, the supply would always be m danger of being stopped fiom other poisons sinking round on lower giouud. It could iievoi. be depended upon as a ]icimauout source of bupp'y. He quite objected to the ptoposition to eiect stand pipes in Queen stieer, and fiom the number proposed to bo elected the waste would be immense, lie could only bay tho whole scheme was a perfect fallacy, and would piove an utter fiiluie. If the Government weie deteimined to cany out tliuii idea, lot them expend their own money ; let them take a sum of money out of tho £500,000 loan; but he was most strongly opposed to the money king taken fiom thu City Endowments, and for a pioject which must prove woi tides I*.1 *. 'J ho more lie looked at the pioject, tho moie he was convinced of its'folly. Mr. WAnx thought the last speaker (Mr. Cadtnnn) had betrayed ii thoiongh ami complete ignoi nneo of the Mibjectnpon which hehad beeu talking. Tho hon. member had stated that Government should take the money for the project out of the £."500,000 loan. Government hid ceitaiuly that* intention in view, for the City Endowments would be paid out of tho loan, and so ifc would amount to the same thing whethei tho money was taken fiom one souice or the othei Mr. Cndman lhid then talked of tho paltiy supply fiom tho Domain, and in doing so had been evidently laboring under the stiango delusion tint the city was entirely without water at the picsent time, and so would be quito dependent on this souice. The Council would be well aware Hint this was far from being tho caso. The scheme wns intended to supplement the water supply already in existence in the city fiom piivate wells. It was simply proposed to e\pend £2,200 for the supply of the water until a gi eater quantity could be obtained fiom some other sourcp. Mi. Howe was convinced that by the expenditure 0^£250 upon the Queen stieet wells, tho Council could obtain a much laiger supply of water than could be had fiom the Domain spiing. In other places likewise in the city gi eater quantities of water could be obtained, such as fiom a spiing in \Velle4ey stieet, BairackRtreet, and clsewheie. He thought the Council weie letiogmding in enteitaining such an inefficient scheme. Doubtless, when tho Domain spiing scheme was fitst pioposed, the source would have been quito ample to meet all demands, but the* city had grown past that state of affhus, and an cnlaiged supply would bo necessary. It had been lematlccd that the prisons who used the water should pay for it. People geneially did not pay for water whilst they had to take the tiouble of fetching it, and jet nothing was said about a house supply. By the cairying out of a laigc supply, however, Hit) water could be cariicd to the house, and so would instantly be a leproductive scheme All the inhabitants of the city would likewise be benefited by the enlarged scheme. It was the duty of the Government, whilst pioposing the adoption of any scheme for supplying the city with watei, to see that an adequate amount could be obtained before any steps weie taken. This, he was >=oriy to «,ay, could not bo expected fiom the Domain spiing. It co dd not be believed that the project would be carried out for the sum of £2,200, as hinted at; and he felt convinced that it could not be cauied out under a sum of £10,000 Captain Dai,T)Y «aid the two spcakeis who had addicssed the Council on the lepoit (Mr. Cadman and Mr Ivowe) had continually tin own out remaiks on the scheme as being a Government one. IFo wonld ask them what had become of tho coinmittee — and in fact whose lepoit they weie then considet ing ' The Government weie not wedded to the scheme, or to any pioject; and had the lion, membeis lie had alluded to pointed out any better plan, the committee would doubtless have adopted it. The project wns introduced as a tcinpouuy measuie until a moie adequate supply could bo discoveied. Should ihe weather next summer be of the same ehaiacter as that just passed, it would be a source of gieat uneasiness to the Government not to be placed in a position to prevent the spiead of any disease which might be engendeicd from the want of water for cleansing purposes. The question could not be di cidtd too quickly in older that steps could be taken to ha\o an adequate supply against next summer. It had been remaiked that the scheme w r as to bo cauied out at the suggestion of the fiie insui anco companies of tho city. lie could only say that no communication had been had with the companies on the subject, neither on the pait of the Government noi, he believed, any member of tho committee By the losen oil's intended to be made, 110,000 gallons wonld be stoied leady for tiso in caso of fne. Mr. Hvnnop btiid, since last speaking on the question he had been made aware that tire two gentlemen who had spoken so stienuously in opposition to the scheme w ere themselves on the committee. He was \ory much astonished at this conduct of the lion, meinbois. For hij piit he did not wish to thiow cold water on tho scheme, but considered some steps ought to have been taken to pieserve the laige amount of rain water which fell dining the winter months, and which could bo used for the pievention of the spiead of fiie, for sanitary pin poses, <fee. •Mr. (JiDM\N had neter heaul a single pcison outside of the Council Chamber speak in favour of the scheme ; but nine-tenths of the people he had spoken with had condemned the pioject. Not a single petition had beeu piesentedin favour of tho scheme ; but a petition had been piosented against it. The supply of watei would be miserably .small, and could not be used foi sanitary purposes, for files, and domestic uses. If it weie to be used at all for fires, he would advise that it be kept solely for that use. It wonld be idle to hope that it could seivo for all purposes. Mr. Rown spoLe in reply to the observations of Mr Harrop. Himself and Mr Cadman had opposed the project whilst in committee, and had suggested that other souices should be chosen. Capt. llattray thought the subject was one of gieat impoitance, and should leceive eveiy attention at the hands of the Council. He was sony, theiefoie, to notice signs of prejudice against the scheme by certain hon. members in tho Council, In the plan pioposed it was contemplated to form two leseivoiis, one of 220,000 gallons, and tho other of 110,000 gallons and which would be available in the event of files. Tho Onehnnga scheme was an extensive one, butat the same time must prove vciy expensive. He did not believe it could be carried out under £60,000, whilst the « oi king of the necessary machinery must cost a great deal of money. He thought they would be foolish to lefuse a half lonf when they could not get a whole one : he would therefore vote for the tempoiary measuie until a moio complete plan could be carried out. Mr. King spoke against the motion. Ho did not think tho supply fiom the Domain spring was woi thy the consideration of the Council. He believed after 9 o'clock in tho morning not a drop of water would bo obtained from tho pipes. The Bcheino would prove an utter delusion. Had tho report proposed that the stieaui from the Domain, theonefrom Seccombe'sbiewery, and another fiom Henry's, be used together, he could havo ngiced in its adoption; but in its mcagio state ns presented he could not entertain any hope of its utility. He trubted the hon. mover would withdiaw the motion, and no doubt by next session the Council would be in a position to entertain a moro extensive scheme. Captain Dam>y was sure Mr. King could not bo ■erious in requesting him to withdraw the report, seeing that it had been dinwn up at tho committee's suggestion.' The Government were not desirous of forcing 'the scheme' proposed by tho committee. It appeared to bo tlie best obtainable as a temporary measure, and .'was< therefore recominanded for adoption. The pipes intended to be laid would.convoy ?0,000 gallons pec day, and the reservoirs intended for tire purposes would not be subject to being drawn, qu

for domestic purposes, but would be regerved for ex* tingufohing conflagrations sijnpjy. v,,,*'*,,* . >''* Mr. BaMi fell; compelled to vote against the" scheme. ' '' } Mr. Lynch had found fault with 1 the former Govcrumout for proposing to enter into' too expensive and extensive a eahemo ; and he must complain . ngainsfc the ptesent Government advocating too small a project. J-te thought if a temporary supply only was intended, it could be effected l>y sinking more wells iv tlio city. Ho would much prefer to have seen the proposal made to connect the streams from Seccombes ami Henry's to the Domain spring, when something like an adequate supply could beoUainoJ. Ho would a3k tho hon. mover to withdraw his motion until some moro comprehensive projeofc was advocated. Captain Rattr VY said there was one consideration in regar.l to Seccombes spring. Tho water would require pumping ; and again, it had only recently been tested ; it was, therefore; a question as to whether it could be a permanent source or not. The discussion was continued by Messrs. King-, Rowe, Lundou, Cadman and Koir, in opposition to tho motion, and Messrs. Stewait, Eattiay, May, ml George, in favour thereof. The Council divided on the question. Ayes, 8 : Messrs. George, Stewart, Wynn, May, Harrop, Bateman, Rattray, and Daldy. Noes, 7 : Mossrs. King, Kerr, Lundon, Cadman, Ball, Rowe, and Lynch. Tho motion was consequently carried ; the report ■was adopted, and oulered to be forwarded to his honor the Supeiintendent. GAS COMPANY LEASE VlhL. Mr. Wvxn moved that the second reading of this bill be postponed. — Cauied. LOOAIi MABINE BOARD BILT/. On the motion of Mr. Wvxn, this bill was read a third time and passed. The remaining orders of the day and notices of motion were then postponed until this day, and the Council adjourned at twenty minutes past ten o'clock.