HOUSE OF COMMONS. THE ADDRESS.

Daily Southern Cross, Volume XIV, Issue 1031, 15 May 1857, Page 4

HOUSE OF COMMONS. THE ADDRESS.

At four o'clock, the Speaker stated the teveral writs | which he had issued during the recess. My. Hayter gave notice that otf Thursday next, the Secretory for the Colonies would move for the appointment of a select committee to inquire into the condition of the possessions under the administration of the Hudson s Bay Company j that on the same day he would propose a bill to alter the ecclesiastical provtsiotls of Norfolk Island ; that on Friday the Chancellor of the Exchequer would move for a select commMee to inquire into the Bank Act of 1844, and to the law relating to joint-stock banks ; that on Monday, the 9th, Sir George Grey would introduce a measure to amend the acts relating to secondary punishments, and to establish reformatory schools in England. Sir Suffbrd Northcote gave notice of a motion on the subject of education and protection for vagrant children. The Solicitor-General for Ireland gave notice that on an early day he would move for the expulsion of Mr. James Sadlelr from the House. Mr. Pellatt gave notice for Friday, the 13th, and Major Reed, on Tuesday next, of resolutions almost identically similar, condemnatory of the Income-tax. Mr. Roebuck gave notice that on an early day he would move for a select committee to inquire into the operation of secondary punishments. Mr. W. Williams gare notice that on an early day he would move for a select committee on naval promotions. Sir John Pakington gave notice that on the 1 7th he would bring in a bill to provide the means of popular education. , - i The Speaker then read the Queen's speech, after which, ! Sir John Ramsden rose to move the address in reply. The speech from the throne on- this occasion, he said, contrasted so favourably with the speeches of former years, that he could hardly anticipate any opposition to the address he was about to move. He congratulated the House on the peace that had been attained with •Russia— a peace more honourable to lh<» enemy, perhaps, than he was entitled to expect ; but which the people were well, content to accept. He could not, however, deny that he had heard with misgiving and dismay that the peace which they had rejoiced over and illuminated for was, after all, not settled, and that a second Conference was necessary to elucidate the meaning of the first. The Minister, however, had nobly upheld the honour of the country in the midst of these difficulties. He had shown that while England wa« grateful to her Allies she was not dependent on them, while at the same time he had shown that he knew how to yield in trifling matters as well as to be firm in important ones. The matter, he was glad to say, had been settled without the concession of any vital principle. Referring to the Neapolitan question, he must say he did not think the weakness of that country was any reason for coercing her into the views of France and England ; and in the present state of ignorance of the matter he thought it was better to offer no commentary on the subject till the papers were before the House. The aame remark applied to the Persian and Chinese wan. The country was now demanding a reduction of taxation. It was reasonable that a relief from war should also afford a relief from taxation ; but he hoped the people woulJ remember that a rich and defenceless country only invited the spoiler, and that we must not neglect our national defences. We did not want a large army, but an efficient one ; and he thought the British army ought to be, in proportion to its size, the model army of Europe. He rejoiced that her Majesty had recommended various important reforms to their attention. He regret* ed, indeed, that no reference had been made to the condi'ion of our criminal population. He thought this was a subject the Government ought to gt apple with. If they did not, he hoped some independent member would Jake it up. He urged upon the Government the necessity of further refotms, and lamented that so many of the reforms of past years had been the fruit of agitation, which, he said, was a rebuke to the indolence and apathy of Governments, and concluded by hoping that, by pursuing a course of peace abroad and leform at home, the divine blessing would rest upon their labours. He then moved the Address. Sir Andrew Agnew seconded the motion. He defended the course of the Government with regard to Naples and Persia. He congratulated the House on the improved prospects of the country, though; as no j one could tell how soon war might again break out, he called on them to be prepared, and not to weaken the defences of the country. _ # | Mr. Disraeli said there was much in the Queen's upeei-h to produce a profound impression on the coun- ' try. It was hardly a twelvemonth ago that we were under the idea that the war had terminated. Our foe ua" bafflptl in her aggressive schemes, yet she had re- . tired from the contest with dignity. There was every ' prospect that a treaty of peace, by which the honour of i each country was preserved, would lead to permanent I tranquillity. But the lact was, that before the ink with which the treaty was signed was dry, Lord Clarendon sowed the 6eed of future troubles by counselling the very thing for which we had gone to war with Russia— that was to say, interference with an independent State. He would not inquire now what were the relations'into which we had entered with Sardinia ; but this much was certain, that Count Cavour was in close contact with Lord Clarendon at Paris, and that Lord Clarendon made a speech at the Conferences recommending the very course towards Naples which Count Cavour recommended in a State -pv per now on the table. This brought up not only a Turkish difficulty, but an. Italian one. And yet. would it be believed, that at the very time when Lord Clarendon was thus inflaming the public mind upon the subject of Italian oppression, there was a secret treaty in existence guaranteeing to Austria the whole of her Italian dominionsLord Palmerston : By what Power ? Mr. Disraeli : What Power ! The only Power that Austria feared— the power of France, agreed to with the connivance, and the instance of our Government. Let the House observe that the noble lord did not deny the existence of the treaty, though it was mentioned now for the first time. With that guarantee in their pocket, what should the Austrian Minister care for the representations of Lord Clarendon, or the speeches by which the Premier hoodwinked the Liberal party in the House of Commons ? Now, how did that affect Naples. When the King of Naples was threatened, he consulted Austria, and Austria told him to make his mind at ease, for no French soldier would ever cross the Alps on such an errand. The King of Naples then laughed our threats to scorn, and the only results were— in Naples increased severity, assassination, insurrection ; at home, the perpetration of a great hoax to divert us^ from economy, reduction of taxation, and administrative reform. Returning to the Paris Conferences he admitted it was the duty of the noble lord, even at the risk of another war, to insist on the free navigation of the Black Sea and the exclusion of Russia from the Danube. But how was it that we were oh the point of losing one of these points ? They heard a good deal about Russian and Fie i eh maps ; but no one talked of English maps, or English knowledge of the subject. The Russian Ministers were denounced, because they did not do for Lord Clarendon what he ought to have done for himself. It was no doubt a blunder on the part of Lord Clarendon ; and there was no use in complaining either of Russian treachery or French perfidy. And yet the noble lord lashed up the passions ot the people — he harangued the inhabitants of Mancheater on the subject, insisting that he would have nothing but the treaty — i which, by the way, would have given Russia mil she asked for— and so excited the enthusiasm of the people ; that he might have had an Income Tax of 20 per cent, at the moment, a~nd all because Lord Clarendon had-j made' a gross blunder. So it was throughout. There were to be Conferences, but there was a Conference. It was not to be presided over by France, but it was i presided over by France. Then it was said Bolgrad did not belong to Russia. If so, why did you give Russia a large compensation ? So it was that her Majesty's Ministers were perpetually creating difficulties, so that while we were at peace we never reaped the fruits of peace. When the Turkish difficulty was settled, the Neufchatel difficulty occurred. That question would have been settled as soon as it began, but the noble lord interfered, and urged the Swiss Government to stand out. The Swiss Government took his advice, and did resist, but fortunately, before a gun was -fired, i t occurred to them to ask the noble lord for afis^unce. They did not want men, they wanted money, which they thought they could only obtain from the Government of a wealthy nation, and a Government which was the only one that could command a war taxation in time of peace. But the noble lord refused. The pupil of Canning replied in the spirit of Canning's line — 14 1 give thee sixpence — I " The Hou*e kaoj»s the rest. (Great laughter.) So much for rumours of war. He came next to the question of the Persian war. They had been proraistd papers on this subject. He intended to move for the reference of all papers on the subject to a select committee, and he believed it would turn out that, far from Russia supporting Persia, Russia had counselled Persia, from 'the firstj to submit; and if the question were settled as he believed it would be settltd, he had no doubt it would turn out to have been settled mainly through the ms.mmentality ot Russia. With respect to the Ciri,\ question, he' would only say that the quarrel waa cnwd, not by the pretext put forth, but in consequence o{ instructions received from home. The question, therefore, came to be. how they were to put a stop to suri) a mischievous state of things. Taxation was mairrained at a high pitch, till the people had become impatient, and had begun to start questions which, it was hoped, had. beer, settled for ever, The outcry against the injustice of the Income Tax, silenced by the

proposal of Mr. Gladstone to terminate it altogether in 1860, had now reTived again with greater fore» than ever, when it wai feared from the measure of the GoTernment that it would become perpetual. To set these questions nt rest, he called upon the House to adhere to Mr. Gladstone's settlement of 1853, and to refuse the addition Income Tax for another year He hoped the Ministers would at once declare their opinions on this point. Whether they did or not, he hoped the House would insist on the reduction of the Income Tax to sd. in April next, with a view to its final abolition in 1860 ; and deprecating the meddling with such an important question by members who did not command the confidence of any party, he gave notice that on that day fortnight he" would move for a committee of the whole house, in which he would propose resolutions against continuing war taxes in time of peace, and that the settlement of Mr. Gladstone should in its spirit be adhered to. This, he thought, would stimulate the spirit of economy, and check the disposition to make England a military nation What they wanted was scientific officers and a proper training of the militia, and for the rest they must trust to the resources of the country, which would be all the more by the reduction of taxation With this explanation he would support the Address. The right hon. gentleman sat down amidst loud cheers. The Chancellor of the Exchequer would confine himself to the remarks of the rght hon . gentleman on the Income Tax, without following him through his discursive observations on foreign policy. The usual course in dealing with taxation was first to consider the estimates, and then to provide Wa>s and Means, and he knew no reason why the House should now depart from the established practice. He would lay his financial statement before the House at the earliest possible opportunity after the army and navy estimates had been debated. Till then he hoped the House • would come to no definite conclusion or the subject. | Mr. Gladstone complained that Ministers had attempted no reply to the comprehensive and able speech of Mr. Disraeli. The charges of the right honourable gentleman were grave and definite enough, and the Government ought not i to leave the House in suspense with reference to their truth. For the la^t six months we had been left in a state of perpetual disquietude, owing to foreign broils. It was •trange th. t whei.ever the genius of the noble lord was in , the ascendant, we had ten quarrels for one under any other j Minister ; that he alwajs began with braggart and blusterj ing assertions, and ended almost always by coming to the , terms of our adversaries. In the case of Naples be would | wait for the papers. With regard to the settlement of the I Russian and American quarrels, though he approved of the principle, he took objection to points of detail. With respect to China, he said, whatever might be our justification there, he wished her Majesty's Ministers had spoken of the quarrel in terms of some regret. The nation could not threaten us, yet hundreds of innocent lives had been lost by it. As for Persia, he was especially anxious for papers, though none had been promised, because all that had yet been published afforded no justification for the war. He wished to know by whose authority the Persian war had been proclaimed ; and next, whether India or England was to be at the expense of the war ? If this country were to bear the expense, he contended that Parliament oifght to have been called together for that purpose. A contrary course was most detrimental to the f liberties of the country. Coming to the question of domestic policy, he hoped that Government would go into Committee on the Bank Charter Act with a definite plan, for it was not to be denied that select committees of late had conducted their enquiries in a very slovenly rSanner. His own opinion was that the privileges of the Bank would bear revision, for though he would not reverse the course of legislation on this subject, he thought the State might secure a better bargain from the Bank than they at present enjoyed. He then came to the Income-tax. The people were at the present moment jealous of taxation, but they were perfectly reckless of expenditure. But they must be taught that taxation could only be affected by tl c amount of expenditure. Now Lord Panmure had led them to expect that the military estimates for this year would be about 15 millions. He was afraid the Admiralty would not produce a less estimate than nine millions, which would produce a peace establishment of twenty-four or twenty-five millions. He begged the House to remember that the estimates they sanctioned for this year would be the standard of the peace establishment for many years to come. Now, the peace establishment before the last war was sometimes as low as twelve millions, and they never went higher than seventeen millions. He knew there were additional expenses since that time, but then there were also reasons for still lowering the estimates. The country had an efficient polic«— lreland was tranquil— the colonies did not want soldiers. The cost of creating a steam fleet had been incurred once for all, and could not be required again. What was there, then, to hinder the peace establishment now from settling down to what it was before? If that were not done it was of no use to abolish the Income-tax. At -the *ametime he felt that it was binding upon him to stand by the settlement of 1853, and he felt it his duty, as far as his ability ', went, to see that that settlemsnt should now be carried out, and he would secure it by bringing the expenditure of the country so low as to admit of its being carried out. When therefore Mr. Disraeli proposed his resolutions, he would find him among his wannest supporters. Lord Palmerston said the greater portion of Mr. Disraeli's observations on foreign policy was mere romance. The right honourable gentleman had been spending a portion of his vacation at Paris, where, as they all knew, there were persons who amused themselves by imposing upon the credulity of gobe-mouches. What a godsend it must have been to those people to get hold, not of a common traveller, but the leader of the British Opposition. He denied that there had been any want of geographical knowledge in the English plenipotentiaries. Their purpose was plain enough ; and it was finally admitted by Russia herself. Then, with regard to Switzerland. The facts of the case were these, that England declined, though repeatedly asked by France, to advise the Swiss to give up the prisoners, without any security that Prussia will renounce her claim*. At the same time we held to Switzerland one language, that they must not count upon English assistance. At last at the request of Switzerland herself, they agreed to mediate along with France. The statement of the right hon. gentleman was, therefore, wholly untrue. He came next to Italy. Mr. Disraeli told the House of a secret treaty, advised by us. If the right honourable gentleman did say he had seen such a treaty, all he (Lord Palmerston) could say was, it was the first time lit had ever heard of it. The stoiy was an entire romance, except this— that at the beginning of the war France promised Austria she would not invade her dominions. There was no guarantee whatever. As to Naples, he contended that every country had the right to cease diplomatic intercourse with another whenever they pleased. As to the Persian war, he had no hesitation in saying that the war was undertaken by her Majesty's Government. They were only following the policy of Loid Derby's Government, who showed a disposition to go to war for Herat as readily as the present Government had done. He would have laid the paper* before the House, but he had just learned that the Persian minister had called upon Lord Cowley at Paris, and intimated his wish to enter into negotiations. He hoped this would lead to a satisfactory settlement. The Chinese war. he contended, was caused by a violation of the treaty of Nankin, which had compelled our agents to resort to force. Other Governments had the same complaint to make as ourselves. He hoped, however, this question also might soon be settled. He reminded Mr. Gladstone, who was now so sensitive upon the question of foreign difficulties, that he had himself been a member of the Government which involved the country, not in a difficulty, but in war. As to the reduction of the estimates, he reminded the House that the colonies could not be left altogether defenceless -that there i were garrisons that could not be abandoned. Scientific officers must be had, while the expense of a steam navy [ was a third greater than »hat of sailing vessels. He hoped, therefore, the House would suspend its judgment till the estimates were before them, reminding them (hit the Government could have no interest to propose any estimates but those that were necessary for the defences of the country. , , , . _ Mr. Henry Baillie condemned the conduct of the Government in relation to the Persian war. Lord John Russell thought the speech of Lord Palmer, jton was satisfactory, even upon points which before were somewhat doubtful. He was glad to hear that the affairs of Netifchatel were likely to be settled. As to the war with Persia; he confessed he looked upon it with alarm, as it would a war, not with Persia alone, but with Persia supported by Russia. He could not conceive the wisdom of exchanging our present defensible Indian frontier for one open at all points, in the centre of Persia. At the same time he agreed f hat Herat should not b« annexed to Persia. He must add that he thought Ministers ought to have called Parliament together before they sent the expedition to Bushire. With respect to Naples, he thought the Government had made matters worse than ever by the mode of their interference. They had bnmght it forward with emphasis, and then abandoned it with levity. He believed the government of Naples was bad, but in Rome, he must remind the House, the government was equally bad, and it was supported by foreign troops. He could not believe that if we remonstrated with France and Austria, this foreign occupation would be given up. After some further remarks on the subject of Italy, in which he anticipated a brilliant future for that country, he urged upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer the propriety of making his financial statement at the earliest possible moment Mr. Milner Gibton condemned the foreign policy of the Government, and complained that there wa» no promise in the speech of domestic reforms. Mr. Hadfield called the attention of the Government to the necessity of securing a supply of cotton from India. Mr. Vernon Smith said the subject wa» under the consideration of the Government. The addreis was then agreed to, and th» " House adjourned.