PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 26, Issue 29, 28 October 1932, Page 12

PARLIAMENT

Debate on the Budget MAY CONCLUDE TODAY Mr W. P. Endean Speaks Out CRITIC OF PROCEDURE The Labour Party having exhausted almost all its speakers it fell to the Government to keep the Budget debate going in the House of Representatives yesterday, and of the eight who took part only two were drawn from the Opposition benches. As no time remains to do anything really effective this week, the debate will probably drag out all to-day although it is confidently hoped that it will finish by this evening. Interest in the debate has never been very keen among those on the Treasury benches, and the Minister of Agriculture, Hon. C. E. Macmillan, who spoke last night, was only the second member of Cabinet to speak. As it was, however, he addressed only five Labour members and a very thin attendance on the Government benches. It would appear as though the Government has not been very anxious to bring the debate to an end, probably because it was not ready at the moment to go ahead with any earnestness with legislation. Hopes of ending the session before Christinas are rapidly dying. In spite of the recent remarks of. those members who have resented adverse comments, Mr. W. P. Endean, Government member for Parnell, devoted some time yesterday to a scathing commentary upon the ponderous procedure of the House. He was particularly searching in his objections to the way Parliament) did its business, and he finally confessed that he had come to the conclusion that politics was “a very poor game.” Eor the rest, the speeches were not notable for novel contributions, and even if the debate ends to-day it will have outlived its usefulness. The House adjourned shortly before 11.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. to-day. No fewer than seven speakers are set down for to-day, and if time allows, the Prime Minister will wind up the debate before the House rises for the weekend. WORDS ON SHOW-CARD Minister’s Remarks Misquoted Inquiries are to be made by the Minister of Health, Hon. J. A. Young, into the use of a display card advertising a certain patent medicine on which are words used by him in the House recently, but which do not contain all that he said concerning the preparation. This statement was made by Mr. Young in reply to a question by Mr. W. E. Barnard (Lab., Napier). Mr. Barnard said the show-card was headed: ‘‘Ridiculous Story Denied,” but he explained that some of the Minister’s words had been omitted, and he asked whether steps would be taken to prevent the continued display of the advertisement. The Minister thanked Mr. Barnard for drawing his attention to the card. The advertisement not only misquoted him, but also imported into the advertisement words he had not used. There was a very serious omission, for no reference was made to the fact that it had been stated that patent medicines of the kind had to bear the inscription : “Danger. This preparation should not be used except under medical direction.” He would communicate with the firm concerned. He did'not know what legal powers he had to suppress the advertisement, but he would draw attention to the fact that he had been misquoted and that the advertisement was not accurate. Mr. Barnard: Will the Minister inquire into his power to suppress the advertisement? Mr. Young: I will do that.

STATE INTERFERENCE Member Criticises Policy A protest' against State interference In business, which he" contended was stifling private enterprise, was made by Mr. 11. M. Campbell (Govt., Hawke’s Bay), during the Budget debate in the House yesterday. Mr. Campbell said it had been contended that the wheat-growing industry should be placed on an equitable basis. He agreed entirely with this, but it could not be done unless the present duties were removed. The price of wheat in New Zealand should be governed by world levels the same as any other commodity. As the result of State interference, State enterprise and tinkering in private business, money was being driven out of industry. This accounted for the growing deposits in the banks. The recent Order-in-Council concerning the restriction of picture theatre building where it was considered a town was already well served, w r as an instance of this. In view of the public apprehension concerning this question and also the letting of the contract for school text-books, the Government should agree to hold a formal inquiry into the questions with a view to putting the public mind at ease. This should be done out of fairness to those who supported the Government, if for no other reason. The operations of the Meat Export Board provided an example of interference. It was stated that the board’s function was to regulate shipments, but there was as much chaos in marketing to-day as ever there was. The board had received about £500,000 from the producers, and all it had to. show for its expense was the building it had bought in London, and he had been told this was of no value. In addition the State Advances Department had been responsible for driving the private lender off the market. Before the department was operating money could be had cheaply, but now the department itself was unable to spare money for lending purposes, it was almost impossible to secure loans at all. The State was also interfering in transport questions, and recent ex-

perience seemed to show that the Government’s policy was being dictated by the Commissioner of Transport. On this point he would like an assurance that the Government was controlling its own policy. AN ELECTION “DODGER” Labour Party and Promises “He is quite an infant in this House and is not yet out of his political swaddling clothes,” declared Mr.W. E. Parry (Lab., Auckland Central), in criticising remarks made by Mr. J. Hargest (Govt., Invercargill), during the Budget debate in the House yesterday. “He tried to lecture the House. He said the Labour Party did not make any protest against the lavish expenditure of the past. “The honourable gentleman has a lot to learn about the doings and customs of this institution, and he should make a closer scrutiny of Hansard to see what has been done. He would then see that the Labour Party made a very considerable protes't against certain undertakings of the Government. “Judged on his election pledges, I believe he is the most inconsistent member of the House, and when he wants to wriggle he does not require any lessons from elder members,” said Mr. Parry. “I have an eluection ‘dodger’ issued by him. It is headed. ‘Stopping a Rumour,’ and says that Mr. Hargest does not favour reduced wages. Yet the man who put out that ‘dodger’ dodged himself in this House, and has stood for practically every reduction which lias come before this House.” Mr. Hargest: I think you will admit that was not last election. BANKS AND STOCK AGENTS Their Part in the Depression “Have the banks and the stock and station agents done their part?” was a question put by Mr. J. Connolly (Govt., Mid-Canterbury), during his'speech in the Budget debate in the House yesterday afternoon. “I know the banks are subject to heavy taxation,” he said, “but I still think they could have done much more to assist the people of New Zealand. To-day fixed deposits constitute a record, and probably all the money on fixed deposit is not coasting the banks more than 3) per cent. “Their rate on best accounts is still 6 per cent., so I should say they are not doing their part, and the Government should keep a close watch on the position. While the banks may have served the country, they have done a much greater service to' their shareholders.” Although the risks attaching to their business were greater and they had done much to help, the stock and station agents also had not done what they might. Seeing that they were charging 7 per cent, interest, when the highest fixed deposit rate was 4 per cent.. Mr. Connolly said he thought they might be doing considerably more than they were.

PRICE STABILISATION Creation of New Credits . 6 The stabilisation of prices was urged by Mr. H. G. It. Mason (Lab., Auckland Suburbs) in the House yesterday to be one of the prime necessities for a return to prosperity. He declared the Budget did no more than suggest means of reducing still further the purchasing power of the people, and that it contained no constructive suggestions for economic readjustment. The Governor of the Bank of England, Mr. Montagu Norman, said Mr. Mason, admitted that he himself was lost in the economic maze, yet the Government looked overseas for a guiding financial policy. There was not the least need for New Zealand currency to coincide with foreign currency, and if we were not so closely tied to sterling, the country would not feel the effect of the price level fall. Stabilisation of exchange was not the way out of the difficulty as the Budget suggested, and Professor H. Belshaw, of Auckland, was right when he declared that the stabilisation of prices was more important. The Government had attributed its failure to something over which it had no control, declaring that something such as a convulsion of the natural order of things was entirely responsible. New Zealand had to wait for London, according to the Budget, and London had to wait for another economic conference by means of which' the world was to be united. If the Government would create new money or credits for the payment of such things as old-age pensions it would begin to see the way out of its problems. By that means money would be brought into circulation, but as it was nothing constructive was suggested at all. MR. ENDEAN SPEAKS OUT Prolixity and Procedure FAILURE TO MAKE HEADWAY. Outspoken opinions concerning the conduct of Parliament’s business and the curious procedure under which the House laboured, were expressed by Mr. W. P. Endean (Govt., Parnell), during the Budget debate in the House yesterday, when he confessed that he found politics a “very poor game.” Recalling that in his first speech in Parliament he had commented on the somewhat peculiar procedure, Mr. Endean said he did not desire to make a personal attack on members, but he considered there was scope for improvements in the methods by which Parliament did its business. “Ten Cabinet Ministers, with their secretaries, really run the country,” said Mr. Endean. “As long as those men know their jobs that may be all right. Members of Parliament are fire-brigadesmen to suppress any conflagrations.” Mr. Endean said the Labour Party indulged in a lot of repetition. In almost every debate they played the same tune on twentyfive different records. Discussing the work of committees, Mr. Endean considered improvements could be made. In the first place, it was impossible for members to attend the meetings of all committees to which they belonged. He suggested also that typewritten copies of evidence given before committees should be prepared. •That might be costly, but would give better results in enabling members to come to good decisions. “This Prolixity.” Discussing what he termed “this prolixity,” Mr. Endean said Parliamentary debates seemed to be very long drawn out. In England the Address-in-Reply debate took only two or three days and speakers were selected. In New Zealand this year there had been two sessions, and on each occasion the Address-in-Reply debate had occupied about three weeks. It was no

wonder that the public outside bad begun to take a humorous view of Parliamentary proceedings. “We deal with our business in a very higgledy-piggledy fashion,” said Mr. Endean. “Nothing is ever finished. We start on the Address-in-Reply debate, then we take the Budget; that is interrupted by the Ottawa debate, and in the meantime we have a discussion on the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Amendment Bill. It is like a farmer starting out to plough a field, doing an acre, and then rushing off to other tasks, none of which is properly finished. “I regard politics as a very poor game,” confessed Mr. Endean. “We have whispering campaigns, men’s reputations are assailed and they are slandered. We know what has happened in New -Zealand in that respect as far as one member of this House is concerned. The sooner we abolish these Yankee tactics the better. “And now I want to say something about Hansard,” continued Mr. Endean. “Why should Hansard be used as a means' of electioneering? Why not give so many free folios to each member and charge a shilling for each extra folio? That would stop all this talk. Then people would send to Parliament thinkers and not talkers.” , Mr. W. J. Jordan (Lab., Manukau): You are neither. You would not be here then. Mr. Endean: I am not a talker. This is only my second speech this session. Breaches of Privilege. The suggestion was also made by Mr. Endean that consideration should be given to the question of whether all persons were fit to have a vote. He also criticised the procedure whereby Parliament dealt with breach of privilege accusations. “Did you ever know of any law where a man is deemed . guilty .before he had had a hearing?” asked Mr. Endean. “Yet in this House we set up the position that a man is guilty without trial. The'thing , is monstrous, and is opposed to all sense of justice. We would be well advised, to alter our w ocedure and, before we condemn a n.,fh, give him a chance to appear at the bar of the House and be heard.” Discussing the Legislative Council, Mr. Endean said he did not favour the abolition of the Upper House, which acted as a check on hasty legislation in the House of Representatives. However, he did not think the Council should be regarded as a refuge and reward for ex-members of the House in their old age. That aspect should be eliminated, and appointments made from middle-aged men in the professional, business, and industrial worlds, including representatives of both employers and employees. He did not favour an elective Upper House. ATTORNEY-GENERALSHIP Present Occupant Criticised ~ t. The opinion that Sir Aplrana Ngata “was not a‘fit person to hold the job of Attorney-General,” was expressed by Mr. W. P. Endean (Govt., Parnell), when stressing the importance of that office during his Budget speech in the House last evening. Mr. Endean said that Sir Thomas Sidey in the Upper House had done justice to the position when he occupied the office of Attor-ney-General, but men in the Lower House did not. seem to come up to the standard. Reference was made by Mr. Endean ■ to the recent suggestion of the Chief Justice, Sir Michael Myers, that “run-ning-down” motor cases should be tried by a separate court consisting of a judge and two assessors. He had come to the conclusion that the suggestion of the Chief Justice was wrong, and not in the best interests of New Zealand. He admitted that under the jury system verdicts were occasionally obtained that were perverse and created a miscarriage of justice- Such cases, however, were not frequent, and substantial justice was done by the litigants in the majority of instances. With a judge and two assessors the assessors would simply become advocates, and to his mind the suggestion of the Chief Justice should be rejected. Discussing the Companies Act, Mr. Endean said the present measure was not a credit to the Statute Book of New Zealand. It could really be a vehicle of fraud. REFORM OF HOSPITALS Need for Economy *.love The hope that the Government would give serious consideration to the proposals of the National Expenditure Commission for the overhaul of the Dominion’s hospital system was expressed by Mr. R. A. Wright (Govt., Wellington Suburbs), when speaking during the Budget debate in the House last evening. He also spent some tinie upon the question of interest charges on overseas debts, declaring that from a close investigation of the position, New Zealand had lost £2,000,000 a year over the past ten years-in connection with her debt services. Discussing hospital reform Mr. Wright said the Commission’s report showed that between 1014 and 1031 hospital expenditure had increased from £240,010 to £1,143,050, and anything that could be done to cut down this huge cost would be of advantage to the country. The Commission pointed out that there were far too many small hospitals in the Dominion, and although he had no sympathy with those who said that patients should be discharged earlier, and that certain patients should not be received, he thought the Commission’s opinions should be fully considered. Estimated Saving. * The commission considered that much money could be saved by a consolidation of hospital administration, and it had been reliably estimated that £250,000 would be cut off expenditure by making this move without impairing the efficiency or value of the hospitals generally. Small hospitals endeavoured to do their best with the limited resources at their disposal, but no matter hbw efficient a man might be in a small hospital he could not give the service which was to be had in a large hospital with all the equipment necessary for giving first-class service. There were 45 hospital districts in New Zealand, and the commission considered this number could be reduced • to 18. He thought, the Government should give every consideration to the report insofar as it dealt with hospital reform. x Mr. P. Fraser (Lab., Wellington Central) : Is there anything new in the proposals which has not been before the country for years? Mr. Weight said every reform had to be hammered at for years before it was adopted. If a saving could be effected without affecting the sick of the Dominion, it should be brought about, especially in view of the present position of the country. Turning to the question of public finance and interest charges, Mr.

Wright said New Zealand had been paying its interest bill for years out of borrowed money. The difference between imports and exports was insufficient to pay the interest bill. During the past ten years the value of imports had reached a total of £453,700,000 and exports £477,254,000. The surplus of exports over imports had been £23,554,137 during the ten-year period or an average of £2,355,413 a year. Ratio of Overseas Debt. Interest charges last .year totalled about £10,000,000, and of this amount about £6,500,000 had been paid overseas. The total interest bill for the ten years had been £80,529,130, or an average of £8,052,913, which showed the great burden being borne by the country. The average yearly interest bill paid to overseas creditors during the ten years was £4,361,969. Mr. Wright said his investigations into the question showed that the Dominion had been getting behind to the extent of about £2,000,000 a year during the past ten years. This was a conservative estimate, and .did not take account of exchange or sinking fund payments. In addition the operations of local bodies had to be taken into account. The country would have to endeavour to cease overseas borrowing and rely more on the local investors for its requirements. It could not be overlooked that the railways were largely responsible for the position in which the country found itaelf, and they should have been protected years ago from adverse competition. GRANT FOR AN HOTEL Probationer Nurses’ Wages Approval of the action of the Unemployment Board in advancing £BOOO on third mortgage for the financing of the construction of the Masonic Hotel at Napier, was expressed by Mr. J. A. Nash (Govt., Palmerston), wheu speaking during the Budget debate in the House last evening. Mr. Nash said the action taken by the board meant it was subsidising the construction of a new building, and a't the same time providing for the 'employment of men at award rates. He was glad to know that the action of the board was approved by members of the Labour Party. Labour Membeys: Who said so? Mr. Nash said he gathered that the Labour Party was in agreement with the remarks made earlier in the debate by Mr. W. E. Barnard (Lab., Napier), who had defended the action of the board. Mr. P. Fraser (Lab., Wellington Central) : You know different now. Regret was expressed by Mr. Nash that the National Expenditure Commission had seen fit to recommend that the salaries paid to probationers in hospitals should be reduced. The probationers were receiving a pittance of 8/2 per week, and their keep. Those young women were doing a -wonderful work. Already the probationers had had two reductions of 10 per cent, from their £25 per year, and yet the Commission suggested they were receiving too much. He hoped the Government would disregard the proposal. The suggestion of the Commission that the local bodies should assume control of charitable aid was an absurd one. The hospital boards were the. proper organisations to have charge of, administration of charitable aid. As far as he could gather, no opportunity had been given those responsible for hospital administration to give evidence. The Hospital Board’s Association was entitled to have been heard. He hoped that nothing would be done by the Government to injure the hospital system until representatives of the association were given an opportunity to place their views before a Select Committee of the House. Hospital administration had been reduced to a fine art, and boards were finding great difficulty in carrying on and giving efficient service. The abolition of education boards was favoured by Mr. Nash. The matter could be overcome, he said, by raising the status of school committees and giving them more authority.

FERTILISER SUBSIDIES Not to be Abolished No action is contemplated by. the Government to abolish the subsidies for rabbit destruction, and the free carriage of lime and fertilisers, according to a statement made by the Minister of Agriculture, Hon. C. E. Macmillan, when speaking during the Budget debate in the House last evenMr. Macmillan said that although it was unlikely that many of the recommendations of the National Expenditure Commission would be given effect to, the members were entitled to credit for the fearless manner in which they had tackled their task. The subsidies in connection with rabbit destruction and free carriage of lime and fertilise ers were considered to be good investments. He was satisfied that it would not be wise to adopt the recommendations of the Commission until those subsidies be abolished, and accordingly the Government did not intend to abolish them. Every effort was being made with the limited funds available to give encouragement to gold mining. The country was on the eve of great development in. connection with gold mining. In his opinion they should not allow gold to lie taken out of New Zealand without some compensation to the Dominion as a State. ) SAFETY AT ARAPUNI Minister’s Reassuring Words PROFITS AND WORKING COSTS. A reassuring statement about the stability of the Arapuni hydro-electric works was made by the Acting-Minister of Public Works, Hon. C. E. Macmillan, wheu speaking in the Budget debate late last evening. He described as absurd statements that the works were constructed on a volcanic ash-heap and said all reasonable precautions were taken by the department in selecting the site. HO was satisfied New Zealand had a good asset in Arapuni. Explaining that he was anticipating in some respects information to be given in the Public Works Statement, the Minister said the capital cost of the Arapuni scheme worked out at £32.5 per horsepower. That figure included interest during construction up to March 31 last. When Arapuni was extended to its ultimate capacity of 160,000 horsepower it was estimated the cost would work out at £21.2 per horsepower. The average of all New Zealand plants, fuel and water, was £39.7 per horsepower. “The Government power schemes in operation to last March earned 7.28 per cent, over net operating expenses for the year,” said the Minister. “In other words, after allowing for depreciation —namely, £103,092 —they made a profit of £37,000. During the year the bulk

of capital on Arapuni was considered as being not in operation and interest thereon was being capitalised. Sim% Arapuni went into operation again in April it has earned, after paying net operating expenses, 6.75 per cent, as at August 31. The Minister mentioned incidentally that opinions had differed as to whether the No. 1 unit was out of balance or whether the foundations were insecure. He said the engineering opinion was that the unit was out of balance. “There is nothing to be alarmed over at Arapuni,” said the Minister. “If the rupture had not been stopped there might have been cause for alarm. There is practically no surplus water going ov&r the headrace and the three units are operating. The department is justified in resisting prejudiced statements by people who have not given the subject full investigation. I invite any members to come to my office when the officers of the department will be only too pleased to explain the whole position. They invite any investigation and criticism, and they say that the cause of the trouble is not of such a nature as to cause any alarm regarding the stability of the scheme.”