UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF

Dominion, Volume 14, Issue 298, 10 September 1921, Page 8

UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF

LABOUR CONFERENCE’S REQUESTS

SIR FRANCIS BELL IN REPLY

WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING

The question of unemployment was placed before the Acting-Prime Minister (Sir Francis Bell) and other members of the Ministry by a deputation representing the conference convened this week by the Alliance of Labour. The speakers asserted that unemployment was acute in the Dominion, and that the Government ought to devise extended relief measures. Sir Francis Bell expressed the opinion that tho number of unemployed was being exaggerated, and stated that the Government was already doing all in its power to prevent and alleviate the trouble. Ho suggested that the local authorities had a duty in the matte .

Mr. M. J. Mack, president of the Alliance of Labour, stated that there was a great deal of unemployment, and that as nearly as the figures could be ascertained they corresponded to the amount of immigration. Tho people were being told that if wages were lower, and hours of work were longer, there would bo less unemployment. But these suggestions by interested parties were not soundly based There had been great unemployment in New Zealand when wages were ss. or 6s. a day and hours were unrestricted. It was being proposed now that men should work for nothing but their keep. Tho truth was that there was over-production, and if men worked longer hours fewer would be employed. An unemployed man was a dangerous man, and it was a plain fact that Engvland was on the verge of revolution today on account of unemployment. Mr. Mack proceeded to assert that financial difficulties were not a good reason for permitting 'unemployment. If another war began now, the Government would Ire able to find money to carry it on, and surely it could just as easily raise money foi' the benefit of the people who would bo required to wage tho war if it camo.

Sir Francis Bell: I wish, Mr. Mack, you would confine yourself to arguments and reasons, and not to attack, because we are here to discuss things. You are here to help the Government—not to attack us. ■ >

Mr. Mack: “All right. If the Government needs the help of the Labour organisations to show it a way out of tho difficulty, it must be an admission on the part of (Jio GoverjZfient that it is incapable of dealing with tho situation." But Labour could suggest a dozen different ways. Unemployment bureaux should be opened in every centre of New Zealand for the registration of the unemployed, and, upon registration, each roan should bo given either useful employment —not gorse-cutting on the hills—-or an unemployment wage. As far as raising the money was concerned, there were many avenues open. For instance, why should not a betterment tax' bo imposed on those who benefited by the construction of new railways, or why should tho Government not open a State bank and secure some of the great profits now going elsewhere? The one thing which Ihe conference 'insisted on. was. that everyman willing to work should be given employment on wages which would allow him reasonable comfort, with a margin for sickness and disability, and that any man who ccfrild not get work should bo kept by the Government. Sir Francis Bell:.You mean that tho Government must find work out of tho Government funds for any man who is unemployed? Mr. Mack: Yes, sir. UNEMPLOYMENT FIGURES.

Mr. W. T. Young, secretary of the Federated (Seamen's Union, eaid that some returned soldiers were now in giwit distress, although tho Government had promised that provision would bo made for all’these men. He was of opinion'that the number of unemployed was far in excess 'of tho official figures. The laying up of ships had thrown more than 700 members of tho Seamen’s Union out of work, and there were more than IFOO waterside workers idle in. New Zealand.

Sir Francis Bell asked if Mr. Young thought the Government could put the ehips into commission. Mr. Young replied that ho wished to establish the fact of unemployment. Ho proceeded to refer to miners and freezing workers. Out of 42 freezing works, only one was employing anv considerable number of men.

Sir Francis Bell: You don’t think that is exceptional at this time of the year? Mr. Young: I don’t know.

■ Sir Francis Bell: I don’t think you do. Mr. Young stated that, unemployment was as bad in New Zealand as in England in proportion to population. ‘lt was tho function of the Government to find a remedy. The country hnd been told some months ago that there was n sum of £S,O(X>.(WO in the Treasury,' and since then a loan of a similar amount had been raised in London, Some of this money should be available for ievelopment work. That should be the fl rat. call on the money. Sir Francis Bell: So it is.

Mr. Young: You sa’d that vou had no money to employ 50 unemployed in the Hutt Valley. /Sir Francis Bell: What I “aid was that the Government was spending £300,000 a month' on public works, and that it could not spend more. Mr. Young proceeded to suggest the imposition of a special tax on land and a special levy on capital Ho posed also the application of the betterment principle to lands that had been increased in value by public work*. Money could be raised by these means for the relief of unemployment. THE HOUSING PROBLEM. Mr. 11. T. Armstrong, secretary ot tho Christchurch Tramway Union, asserted that employers were taking advantage the present, situation to reduce wages and lower the standard of living of tho workers. The Government had aggravated tho jxisifTon. He suggested that the hours of men already in employment, ahould be shortened. a means of providing work for more men. An energetic housing scheme would help. Si- Francis Bell suggested that housing was a matter for the local author!--ties. Me Armstrong: I am one of those who believe that it. is tho duty of the Government to provide housing for the people. Sir Francis Bell:. How i<? the Government to deal with the Christeliurcn si nms? Mr. Armstrong said that Hie people needed houses, nnd labour was idle. 1 he sawmills were idle, and the timber workers wero out of employment. I he Government owned timber land*, but had allowed private enterprise to stop the production of timber by demanding extortionate prices, which the people could not pay. He was sure the money was In the country, and could be raised il proper measures were applied. Mr. F. Cooke, Christchurch, mentioned unemployed women, and suggested the conscription of weaTth. THE MINISTER’S REPLY. Sir Francis Beil, replying to the deputation said that he was disappointed. Ho had been asked to meet representatives .of the workers to discuss unemployment and immigration, and he hnd expected a useful interchange of opinions and suggestions. But the speeches made had boon devoted chiefly to attacks upon the Government and to the advocacy of measures and political principles entirely beyond the present and immediate exigency He did not dispute the right of the speakers to tajre their own course,

but he felt that their speeches had been directed rather to the public than to the Government. That was why he was disappointed. The Government was not without a policy, and was not without knowledge of the situation, which it had endeavoured to meet in its own way. Tho members of the deputation would admit that the business of the Government was to govern. Ministers could be. put out of office if they governed wrongly but as long as they remained, in office they must make the decisions, although they could consider advice and suggestions from any source. . They would not be woytk their salt if they did not govern while they were in office. A member of the deputation: We know only too well you have the right to govC Sir Francis Bell repeated that it was quite legitimate to say that tho Government was governing badly, and must-be put out of office. But in the meantime the Government must carry its own responsibilities. Turning to the question of employment by the Government. Sir Francis Bell said that during the period of trial which began ftarly this year, the Government had employed as many men as possible on public works, and had retained in the Civil Service all the employees, including temporary hands. The Government had done this under great financial strain. It was not fair to suggest that the Government had accentuated the unemployment difficulty by discharging mon. since the truth was that Ministers had directed that men should 'be retained. One of tho speakers had referred disparagingly In tfio work provided for unemployed in Wellington, where some men had been put at gorse grubbing on the Town Belt. But this work bad been provided at the request of tho local authority and the local members of Parliament for men who were, not considered to be capable of beavv work, and for married men wlio could 1 not go. away from tho city. Tho matter really was in the hands of the City Council. THE GOVERNMENT’S DUTY, ... “I will not as long as I am a member of the Government admit the principle that the Government should find employment in every locality for the unemployed in that locality/’ jsaid Sir Francis Bell, "any more than I will admit the principle that the Government is to .find housing for the people in every locality throughout tho Dominion. That is impossible, in my opinion. I do not quarrel with those who hold a different view, but I do not like to have any misunderstanding of the attitude of myself and my colleagues. We will not admit that wherever there are unemployed workers or slum areas in districts that aro under the special direction of local authorities, we are to step in and clear up tho mess. Nor will I admit that, it is the business or function of tho Government to poke its nose into every locality to look for unemployment, and then provide money if tho unemployment is found. It js the business of the local authority to see' that within its own borders people are well governed, and have the opportunity of employment. It is only when there is a general widespread difficulty, such as has been caused by the collapse in the value of tho products of the farms, that the Government has a duty to make some general provision, so that generally it may be possible for the localities to do their duty in that respect." RELIEF WORKS. He did not think the members of the deputation realised how much the Government has actually done for tho relief of unemployment. Notwithstanding the difficulty of providing money for public works, the State Advances Department had been employing its funds largely, in advances to the smaller local authorities. The reason why there had not been a tremendous amount of unemployment was that the boroughs and counties had been employing labour with money borrowed in this way. Public works had been continued and now works initiated. Also, the Government had provided extra works, of which complaint had been made that they were carried on nt less than a proper wage or at less than the Public Works Department was alleged to have agreed to pay. He did not know what the Public Works-Department hud agreed to, but he said that these works had no more to do with the Public Works Department than with the Department of Marine. For example, tree-planting was carried on under his control as Commismissioner of Forests. With the possible exception of one or two works, such as the Akatarawa Road, the relief works were not even authorised by Parliament. They were no more public works under the Public Works Department tlian they were ecclesiastical works under the Archbishop of Canterbury. They were initiated for the alleviation and mitigation of unemployment. The deputation had suggested the establishment of a State bank. Ho did not think that there was anything to be gained by discussing that question. The deputation probably would not accept his opinions if he expressed them. He would prefer to confine his reply to matters on which an exchange of opinions might bo immediately useful. Mr. P. Frasor, M.P.: Tho point is the use of the country’s credit to tide us over this difficulty. ’ , THE TROUBLE EXAGGERATED. Sir Francis Bell said that the position was not so serious as the deputation had represented it to Ire. The speakers had assumed in the preparation of their figures that largo numbers of unemployed people did not apply for employment at the Government labour bureaux. But these applications wft-e the true test of tho position, and they had never been largely in excess of normal. He was prepared to admit that aome unemployed people were not registered, 'but that was always the case. In the week ended September 3 the unemployed registered at the bureaux had numbered 1153, and in the previous week they had numbered 1140. The number placed in employment in that week was 125. But the same men were not registered all the time. The labour was circulating, although the number of registrations remained about the same. A percentage of the registrations w(we made by mon who did not want work, or at least did not accent it when it was offered to them. Tho officials froouently assigned then to jobs, paid theta railway fares, nnd then heard no more of them. He denied that in any general tense married men had been dismissed from the public service to make room for single men. Changes of tho kind might have taken place in isolated in-

stances, and there might have been good reason. Mr. Mack himself, if placed in a position of authority, might sometimes dismiss an inefficient man and place an efficient man in his place. But if he wag asked to believe that heads of Departments were engaged in dismissing married men and giving the jobs to single men, ho did not, believe it, and would not believe it. He was not to be convinced that the officials were a pack of heartless rogues, 'it was not common sense to make such statements. Sir Francis Bell added that he could never quite make out what Mr. Young meant to say. He thought that on the present occasions Mr. Young had 'been accusing the Government of having broken faith with the soldiers. He did not think they had done that. Mr. Armstrong’s speech had amounted to a statement of political differences between Mr. Armstrong and the Government. Mr. J. Roberts: We will bring the unemployed next time, 4000 or 5000 of them. They will convince you.

Sir Francis Bell: I hope you will not do that. I hone that instead of doing that you will seek to help the Government to employ them. Mr. Roberts: We have asked you to do something, and you have promised us My idea was to apply some convincing power. Sir Francis Bell: It was a threat, and you intended it as a threat Mr. Roberts says I have promised you nothing. The reason is that I am doing everything that is in the power of tho Government to alleviate unemployment and prevent unemployment. Mr. Mack thanked tho Minister. Ho said he was sure that when Mr. Massey returned to New Zealand a few weeks hence he would have a more vivid idea of what unemployment meant than Ministers had in this country. CITY LOAN OF £25,000 TO BE RAISED PROPOSAL TO LEVY RATE DEFEATED ONUS ON THE STATE The part that the city proposes to play in connection with measures designed to alleviate iinemployment in. Wellington considered at a special meeting of the council as a whole yesterday afternoon. The Mayor (Mr. R. A. Wright, M.P.) was in the chair, and there were also present Councillors Chapman Burns, Underwood; Dale, Burn, Norwood, Sltc’do, "McKenzie, Forsyth, H. D. Bennett, Gaudin, W. H. Bennett, Thompson, and Fraser. The meeting was by the Mayor with the object of considering a proposal to raise the sum of £15,000, tho amount, estimated to provide employment on relief works for two months. At the outset Councillor Forsyth raised the question of the discussion being taken in committee. The Mayor said that he would move that the council go into committee. Councillor M’Kcnzie: Why in committee? Tho Mayor: It will give us freer scope to discur-s the matter. A motion to exclude tho Press was then carried. The council sat from 4.30 till 6.40 p.m., when the following resolution passed in committee was confirmed in open council, without discussion:— That the council endeavour ro raise immediately the suni of £25,000 out of their loan proposals, and that the Government” bo asked to give the council authority to vary tho conditions, if necessary, to make it. a short-dated' loan, in .order to meet the present unemployment difficulty. It is understood that during the committee stages the Mayor moved a motion to raise a special fund to foe repaid in two years by striking a special rate of one-eighth of a penny in the £ on the unimproved value, but the majority of the councillors were against the proposal. During the discussion the majority of the council expressed themselves as being strongly of the opinion that the largo number of the unemployed in Wellington wero not entitled to be provided for by the city corporation. Seeing that the port is really a national one, serving a very large district, it was urged that it was clearly the State’s duty to give a lead to the civic authorities and to assist them in combating tho present problem. It was largely on these grounds Hint the Mayor’s proposal was defeated. The council also decided that the expenditure of any sum raised should bo confined to those loan works on the schedule of the big loan authorised tyvelvo mqnths ago. The proposed loan will form part of the sum of £lOO,OlO <a portion of the loan authorised by the public) which the council has just been authorised to borrow within Australasia'at flj per cent. As an outcome of the counoil's resolution efforts will 'be made to raise the loan on the 20-year basis, but if these are not successful the Government will be asked to authorise short-dated debentures, probably of fire, years’ duratioh. CITIZENS’”RELIEF FUND CASES OF HARDSHIP. In replying to some criticism about tho appeal for money to give work to the un employed, Mr. Mitchell, M.P., states:— Wo quite agree that it is the dtlty of the Government and the municipal bodies to provide work for the unemployed. Especially have the Government.a duty in Wellington, when by numerous discharges from tho Government Departments they are a .large contributor to the unemployed ranks. The Departments were badly over-staffed when money was plentiful and things were booming. They are now forced to dis charge enyployees when things are bad, and thereby swell the ranks of the unemployed. If the Departments can carry on, and do more business with the decreased staff, the people now discharged were surplus to requirements, and should never have been employed. They would then have sought and found some other avenue of employment, and would have been a help, instead of a charge on tiro State. I speak only, of course, of those running Departments who are now doing the same work under a decreased staff, and not the War Departments that are being wound up. But the Government refuse to do more than they aro now doing, viz., employing 227 men on road relief works in the Wellington district. It will take the council some time to raise a loan, or to take such other steps ns they deem fit. To the meantime, good men are idle, and women and children suffering thereby. Here are four cases brought before me toLabourer: Wife been invalid tor five rears Now in hospital. Has five children. Husband showed splendid references. willing to do anything. Just received hospital account for £2O for wife. Not earned a penny for some weeks. 2. A woman, with four children, two she left with neighbours, the other two, one an infant in arms, sho brought to my office to-day. The husband had left for Upper Hutt on foot this morning in search of work, and sho was frightened all the places would be filled on tho proposed relief works before he returned to-night. She said: "'There has not been a penny come into tho house for three weeks.” She cried all the time s be was in my office, and said she had cried daily and nightly for weeks. 3 A man with a wife nnd three yon eg children, only earned £9 this last six months, during which time he has paid £lB in rent. The family have not had sufficient food for weeks, but would nol apply tor charity. Prepared to hang on until proposed relief works are started.

4. Temporary hand discharged by Gov I ernment some weeks ago. Has wife and four young children. Has not earned anything for four weeks, and is now threatened with eviction. Will do anything. These cases alone, and they are only typical of many, should be sufficient to appeal to the heart and pocket of all. Wo appeal not for tho waster, tho shirker, tho Bolshevik, the "go-alower," or tho unemployable, but for the honest, decent men and women and children. Mon who ore prepared to do a fair thing, and now wait a chanco to work. But they want that work now. Women and children will be very hungry before the Government decide to do anything, or the City Council can take action. Able-bodied men are now seeking aid from the Hospital and Charitable Aid Board and other sources. Many more will do so unless work is found. The question is: “Will tho people give the money-to provide those men with work, or will they find money by donation for the Hospital Board to keep them by charity in idleness?” Wo realise that this Effort will not permanently relieve the difficulty, but it will providd work at once, and keep men employed for some weeks, thus giving the council time to mature its plans and take whatever steps are necessary. A list will be delivered to every place of business, office, etc., on Monday next. Employers are requested to put the list before their employees, and when completed to forward list and all donations to Mr. G. Mitchell, M.P., Dominion Farmers’ Institute, Featherston Street, when receipt badges will be forwarded. CIVIC LEAGUE ACTIVE SUGGESTED URGENT WORKS. The Civic League has resolved to suggest to tho Mayor that the following be added to the list of urgent works to 'be carried out by the unemployed :—Prince of Wales Park—levelling. Improvement of Queen’s Drive from Island Bay right round to Oriental Bay. Widening of Grafton Road, Sutherland Road, Melrose; and any other essential works as are needed to employ tlie men.. The league has also resolved to suggest: (1) That all money collected be devoted to the employment of Wellington residents; (2) that the first to be employed be (a) married men with children under 14 years of age, (b) men with dependents, (c) others. Also that all suitable work Ire carried out on the cooperative principle. Where the latter is not possible an hourly rate has been suggested to the council, who alone must decide the rate of pay. It js expected that this matter will be decided at the meeting of the council this afternoon. The fragile points out, however, that 1 this is relief work, and that the suggested amount of relief pay is essentially for men with families, and it is hoped that this will tide them over until they can find other employment.

A campaign will be started at once to raise funds, as it is felt that immediate relief is necessary in the case of men with families, where, unfortunately, the women nnd children are the greatest sufferers. It is hoped by Friday, September 16, to have realised enough money to give such relief ns is so urgently needed. The Civic League feels that "it is the duty of all in employment to subscribe one day’s pay to provide work for their less fortunate brothers, who want work hut cannot find it. But as it 'is cur duty to mako such provision, it is also tho duty of those provided with work to giro n fair return for what they receive.” A r.'-'.'i-.-.'rnsyg?