Tape check on allegation of lying to House

Press, 8 July 1976, Page 1

Tape check on allegation of lying to House

PA Wellington A master-tape recording of Parliamentary debates will be examined after accusations in Parliament last night that the Under-Secretarv of Trade and Industry (Mr Allen) had deliberately misled the House.

The decision by the Speaker (Sir Roy Jack) to listen to the tape as well as examine the Hansard reporters’ transcripts of debate was made after Mr Allen had been accused by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr Rowling) of lying when he denied earlier yesterday using the word, “hori,” in an interjection. Mr Allen later admitted using the word. The interjection was directed at the Labour member for Eastern Maori, Mr P. B. Reweti, but when questioned by the Speaker at the time, Mr Allen said he had used the word, "fella.” Raising the matter as a possible breach of privilege, Mr Rowling said he had listened to the taperecording and was quite clear on one thing: that the first w’ord used in the interjection was not the word, “feila,” as claimed by Mr Allen. “I suggest that the member for Tauranga in using the Standing Orders of this House . . . that a members’ word must be accepted, has in fact created or committed a breach of privilege,” Mr Rowling said. The best way of clearing the matter up was for the Speaker to hear the tape in question and decide if the matter should go to the Privilege Committee. Mr Allen told Parliament that there appeared to have been “a misunder-

standing by a little man,” before being sat down and rebuked by the Speaker for using inflammatory language. Continuing, Mr Allen said: “I would like to explain, that today, I admit, and these people know, . . . that I used the word, ‘hori,’ and they took exception to it. “I would like to tell you that in the place that I came from that ‘hori 1 meant mate, gent, fellows, something or other like that. That was my understanding of it.” Mr Allen said there was not and never had been any ill-feeling between Mr Reweti and himself. Dr A. M. Finlay (Lab., Henderson) said Mr Allen had just made the case against himself. "He acknowledged that he did use a word which he previously denied using and at the time attempted to assert that he had used a different word. In so doing he has misled the House quite clearly.” The Minister of Justice (Mr Thomson) said the matter was one of order, or decorum, but not of privilege, despite the fact that Mr Rowling might have found it more “suitable to his purpose to make it sound more ominous.” The Minister of Defence (Mr McCready) said that if Parliament were going to be so thin-skinned as to take offence at such a commonplace term, members should be allowed to speak only English in Parliament —not both English and Maori as at present. Mr Alien, he said, had thought the word meant, “George” But Mr Rowling said

there should only be one language—the language of the truth. Mr Allen had been asked at the time if he had in fact said, “Horis—don’t you know.” “He at that point said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘No,’ he lied to the chair, and replaced the word, ‘hori,’ with the word. *fe|la,’ and that, sir, is the heart of the matter.” The controversial interjection was made while Mr Rewiti was speaking on the Government Railways Amendment Bill, introduced by the Minister of Railways (Mr McLachlan). Mr Rewiti wanted to know from Mr McLachlan why the word, “peculation,” which means embezzlement, was substituted for the word, “embezzlement,” in the legislation which provided for the general manager of Railways to authorise the re-employment of departmental employees dismissed for theft or peculation. “It is the first time I have seen that word used,” said Mr Rewiti. “The member for Tauranga is trying to interject. Perhaps when I sit down he will stand and repeat what he said. I did not hear it. If he said something unparliamentary it would be upon his conscience to withdraw. But as members of Parliament we can rise above that sort of situation.” The editor of Parliamentary debates (Mr A. Edwards) said in an interview later last night that the tape-recording system had been used for some years as a check on the shorthand notes of Hansard reporters.