EVENING SITTING.

Press, Volume L, Issue 8581, 7 September 1893, Page 5

EVENING SITTING.

The Council resumed at 7.30. LIQUOR BILL. The debate oh the second reading of the Liquor Bill being continued by Mr BONAR, who remarked that hbelieved the country demanded some legislation, and he believed the Bill was a good compromise as between both parties. It was recognised by all* parties that the liquor trafßc should be kept under control, and he likewise believed that the old system of having Resident Magistrates Chairmen of Licensing Committees was better than the present system, which was a hollow sham. But whilst saying this, he could not refrain from expressing the opinion that there were far too many governing bodies, involving a great expenditure, aheady existing in the oountrv. He thought the provisions of the Bill generally were equitable, but he was averse to interfering with existing Clubs. Referring to the excessive import duties on colonial wines, he considered that if these were lightened, excessive drinking would be lessened. He should support the second reading, but reserve to himself the right of making or supporting several amendments in Committee. Mr STEWART generally supported the Bill which had a deal to recommend it. Mr RIGG was agreeably surprised to find the Bill was an exceedingly good one and open to few objections. Hs considered the direct veto clause a very fiir one and one not unduly oppressive. Talking of the question of total prohibition he thought it would never be effected until there was but one electorate throughout the colony, and of course this would never be. He was not a prohibitionist, and perhaps would never be. Prohibition was exceedingly complex, and its ramifications extended to almost every trade and industry. He had much sympathy with temperance people, but he feared if they gained their desire to-morrow they would not be quite contented. Speaking as a member of the Wellington Working Mens Clab, he was opposed to the restricting \ clause affecting Clubs, but he did not altogtther object to police inspection of Clubs, enerally he supported the BilL Mr PH AR Afc YN ridiculed the idea of the popular democratic craze that the majority should rule. He reviewed the provisions of , the Bill, and expressed the opinion that ( they would give increased work for lawyers. The direct veto clause would not only act in a tyrannical manner, but would defeat ■, the object the temperance party had m i view. He was one of a email party which \ considered the direct veto was wrong in principle, for he failed to see why one portion of the community should dictate to the remainder what they should eat and what they should not eat. As well might a fanatical vegetarian say that his fellows • should not eat flesh meat. Until poUoemen [ were placed at the elbows of every man who i desired to drink a glass of ale, proaiHtmn . would never come to pass. He favoured - l the old system of a Liceaaing Bench* pre* [ sided over by a Resident Magistrate. In this opinion he had been fortified of late years by the late Sir W. Fox. He believed in giving retrenched hotel* I keepers compensation, for, to deprive i them of this would be as monstrous a piece of- injustice as it would have been on the ■ part of the British nation to have refused i slave holders compensation when slavery . was abolished. He expressed the hope that i the Council would reject the BUI and leave - it to the new House of Representatives to devise a measure which was not a sham & such as the present BilL , SirG. WHITMORE objected toprohfla- > tion as being calculated to incommode the ' travelling public; he also thought thai > good publicans should be encouraged, and > those publicans who were deprived of their i means of living should receive compeasa* 1 tion. H "- -I Mr BO WEN remarked that it appeared i to most thoughtful parsons that v the ! existing laws had been carried *oat _ the i present Bill would not have been required. i He believed the difficulty was the want of ■ discrimination in. what was a respeet--1 able hotel The fact was that there [ were houses in which a glass of whiskey i could be obtained, and that only, and there were those in which the public were aooom-" > modated.. He thought that thefe was too - much theory and too little adnunistration ' in this Bill, as there was in the existing Acts. One thing he thought should be conl sidered by the Council, and that was the 1 granting of licenses to ex-police constables. ■ He was opposed to ex-policemen ever r obtaining a license, and he hoped this would I not be lost sight of by the Legislature when k future licensing Bills came before Parliament. He felt convinced nothing would > be gained by placing this bill upon the t< Statute Book. 5 Mr STEVENS opposed the BilL i The COLONIAL SECRETARY, speak- ' ing to Dr. Pollen's amendment, said he - considered the Bill equally as important as f was the question of women's franchise, and ■ he was pained and surprised at the reason* ' ing of some of the opponents of the Bill* ' He believed that had it not been for the ' amendment of Dr. Pollen (who by the way, > he believed, did not care a pinch of snuff ' which way it went), the Bill would have ' gone through on the previous night. The > Government were anxious to pass a Bill > which would prove acceptable to both par- " ties, and be trusted the Council would ' assist Government in this laudable endea- > vonr. Any reasonable amendments proposed in Committee would receive the > greatest consideration of himself and bis > colleagues. > After a few remarks by the Hon. T. ' KELLY, the amendment was put and lost > by 20 to 17. ; DIVISION LIST. 1 For the amendment (17). ' Messrs Reynolds Messrs Digues . L. Walker McGregor Pharazyn Oliver Williams Ormond [ Stevens Bowen Bolt Johnston Jenkinson Dr. Pollen ; Wahawaha Mr Hart \ . Whyte i Against the amendment (20). ' Messrs Stewart Messrs Kerr t> Richardson Bigg Capt. Baillie Jei-nings • Mr Kellv Walker • SirG. Whitmore Feldwick i Messrs Bonar • Acland Barnicoat McLean t McCuilougb Peacock Swaeson Montgomery T Shrimaki Sir P. Buckley [ The committal of the 818 was set dowa , for next day. t The Council rose at 925 p.m. b HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. I Wexudesdat, Skftkjcbjkr- 6. ' AFTERNOON SITTING, f The House met at 2.30 pun. i REPORTS. Mr GUINNESS brought up the report of , the. Privileges Committee, which was , ordered to be considered next day. , Mr SHERA brought up the report of the Public Accounts Committee oa the alteration of Public Works Statement of last year. The report was ordered to be considered on 1 Friday. . QUESTIONS. Replyingto Mr Buchanan. Mr SEDDON said that so far as possible > the duties of Registrars of Electors .were > performed by Government officers who received salaries independent of any they might receive for performing electoral duties, but he agreed that some more liberal - remuneration would have to be paid in view 1 of the increased work which will shortly be i [ imposed on them.

Replying to Mr Fergus, I Mr J. MoKENZTE aaid it was the intention of the Government to put a sum of money on the Estimates for the purpose of keeping in repair the track between Milford Sound and Lake TeAnau. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. Mr SEDDON said he desired to make a Ministerial statement in accordance with the promise he had made to Mr RoUeston. He wished to inform the House in the first place that Mr Cadman, a member for Auckland, had been offered the position of Native Minister and also Minister for Justice and for the Mines Department. Mr Cadman had expressed a disinclination to accept the portfolio of Native Minister, and therefore hf (Mr Seduon) had undertaken that portfolio himse.f. The iibual recommendation was made to the Governor that morning and hi» Excellency had approved, and Mr Cadman had been sworn in that morning as ! Minister for Justice and Mines, and he : Would aIBO have charge of the printing de- | partmeut. Mr Keeves bad resigned the port- j folio of Justice, which was now in Mr Cadman's charge. He might say that he (Mr Seddon) had undertaken the portfolio of Native Minister in order, if possible, to remove the gre*t difficulties that existed m the way of the settlement of Native landa, j and which seriously impeded the progress of the North Island, and it was his honest desire to dc his best to promote the settlement of these lands. Ho now desired to say something with respect to the ORDER Or BUSINESS. For the rest of the session he should move that the following Bills be discharged from the Order Paper:— Education Act Audit BilL Wilsou Land Grant BilL Banks and Company's Accounts Audit BUI. Tobacco Acts Amendment BilL . Tenders BilL Juries Act Amendment Bill. Endowment and Educational Reserves Bill. New Zealand Institute Act 1887 Amendment Bill. Representation Acts Amendment Bill. Public Reserves Acts Amendment Bill. Distriot Hating Act Amendment Bill. Mining Companies Act Amendment BilL Endowed Schools Bill. Mining on Alienated Land Bill. Promissory Oaths Act Amendment BilL Boarding and Lodging Houses Bill. Municipal Corporations Act Amendment Bill. Distress for Rent Abolition Bill. Parliamentary Acts Printing BilL Ho hoped to he able to deliver the Public Works Statement early next week, and to take the discussion on Colonel Fox's report either on Tuesday or Wednesday next. He also hoped the House would assist him in getting through the necessary business, and there was no reason why the whole of the business should not be finished before the •ud of tho month Mr ROLLESTON moved the adjournment of the House. He said that in ordinary circumstances a Ministerial statement as to the accession to office of a new Minister would have been allowed to pass in silence, as it put men on their trial, and the House would be willing to give them an opportunity of proving whether they were worthy of office. The present case was very different, however, as tho House had the whole circumstances of the return to the House of a Minister who had previously been on the benches. He ventured to think that a slur bad been cast on Parliament by -a Minister of the Crown appealing over tbe head of the Supreme Court to the electors of Auckland, and bis opinion was that there could be no satisfactory solution of Mr Cadman's case without a Parliamentary inquiry. After reviewing the circumstances connected with tbe Cadman-Rees case, he said that Mr Cadman had retired from the Ministry presumably because his position was com. S remised. It could not be said that thever* ict of the jury was satisfactory which assessed, to a Minister of the Crown, damages to the extent of 21s, and the amallneaa of 4he damages no doubt practically dismissed the case with contempt. He repeated that a slur had been put on Parliament by Mr Cadman appealing to the electors in this matter; a charge had been made against Mr Cadman by a member of Parliament, and by Parliament he should be judged, and not by any constituency. He held that, unless Mr Cadman thought Borne stigma " attached to him over this matter, he would have insisted on going back to his old position. As matters stood now, it was almost ludicrous that an honourable gentleman should hold the position of Minister of Justice who bad made light of a verdict of the Supreme Court. As to the Premier holding the position of Native Minister, that would create a very uneasy feeling, and the public would think that the Premier was only the nominal head of the department, whilst Mr Cadman was the real head of it. It appeared to him that tho Premier h&d an overweening Bense of his own capacity, and he appeared ready to undertake the I duties of Governor, Speaker, Railway Com- j missioner—or almost any other office it was possible to undertake. Mr SEDDON said .they had just listened to a most extraordinary speech from the Leader of tho Opposition; a speech which should have been followed by the usual motion that the Ministry did not possess i the confidence of the House. The hon. I gentleman should have done that if he went into the lobby alone on it. He held it | was very unfair that, though Mr Cadman had been back in the House for a month, not a single word should have been said till now as to his action, and that Mr Ro'leston I should have waited for this opportunity | to make such an uncalled for attack on the j new Miuister for Justice. The attack, however, was not on Mr Cadman, but on the Government, and the Government accepted the full responsibility. The fact was it was Mr Cadman's over sensitiveness that induced him to resign his seat in the House, and he questioned very much whether any other member of tho House would have resigned if he had been acquitted as Mr Cadman had been. He defended the Smith-Cadman Native land transactions, and said they were such as attached no stigma whatever to thorn. As to what Air Kolleston had said about a Parliamentary Committee, he ' (Mr Seddon) would not send his worst enemy to be tried by a Parliamentary Committee. Mr RoUeston had aaid it was a slur on Parliament to send a member back to the House from his constituency, but lie held it was highly improper to make such a statement, ana it was a elur on an important electorate like that of Auckland. After defending Mr Cadman at some length from the charges made against him, he said he resented the remarks Mr RoUeston had made with respect to his (Mr Seddon's) holding the position of Native Minister, i and said that he had not been a failure in any position he bad yet undertaken, and would do his best in his capacity of Native I Minister to administer the duties of that '; office satisfactorily. Mr SHERA, as a Government supporter, strongly condemned the Government for taking Mr Cadman back into the Cabinet. Ho held that the House would not tolerate all tbe Ministry trafficking in Native lands, '. and they should not tolerate one member of ' the Government doing so. After what had transpired he (Mr Shera) should consider his ! position. He thought other members of the Government party should do the same. J Mr TAIPUA also took the same view, and said Mr Cadman should not have been taken back into the Ministry. He thought : the office of Native Minister should be separate from the office of Premier, and that j the Premier was taking too many offices on J himself. . } Mr FRASER said they all knew Mr Shera was a disappointed man, and any- 1 thing he might say with respect to this I subject mußtbe taken cum grano salts. He ' held that if any other candidate opposed Mr Cadman for the Auckland seat he would have forfeited his deposit. Mr RICHARDSON congratulated Mr Seddon on undertaking the important partfolio of Native Minister, but they all knew that Mr Seddon was no ordinary man ; he would no doubt administer the duties of that office thoroughly. It was, however, the first time they had even the offices of Premier and Native Minister combined. He resented tie Premier's remarks about his (Mr Richardson's) being tried by a Parliamentary Committee for a matter of adtninistration, but he would remind tho Premier that in that affair the colony had not lost a simile penny, and he (Mr Richardson) had not gaintd a penny. Mr Seddon had said he would not send his worst enemy to a Parliamentary Committee, but he had forgotten that one of these Committees had just

absolved the Premier from a charge of altering the Public Works Statement, an action which had never been laid to his (Mr Richardson's) charge, and he hoped never would. Mr TAYLOR approved Mr Cadman's appointment to the Ministry, and was speaking I at the 5.30 adjournment.