HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Press, Volume XLV, Issue 7139, 29 August 1888, Page 5

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Tuesday, august 23. The House met at 11 a.m. Sir H. Atkinson, in reply to Mr Loot, said he could nob definitely announce whett the prorogation would take place } it would all depend on the conference. Eβ saw no reason why the buainesa ofttke House should not be concluded that afijer" noon. . Replying to Mr Hodgkinson, The Pbhmibb eaid the Ctaresnmtafc hoped to be able to bring in » B$U, dealing with. Joehua Jonea* case, if they oouki come to an understanding with 3sam Bolicitore. Beplymg to Sir Q. Grey, Tfa* Pbkuieb promised that a .Oesunte* eion would be appointed to enquire left* the Point Resolution question. GIeBOENB HABBOE BOAED BILL. . . The Gisborne Harbor Board W»e farther considered in Committee. Mr O'C&Uaghan took the chair i& Jfc Ham Uns absence. " Dr.KEWMiN objected to this Billhead said it was on a par with several otto measures providing lor bar harhora. ,*»® considered the proposed erpenditoxa might as well be thrown into the eea. Mr Fish pointed oat that a Select Committee, had enquired,into tStia matter..and the; found that the expenditure up tQ the present would be utterly useless unless tho farther sum asked for was spent on it. Hβ was strongly of opinion that the Bill Bhould be allowed to pass. Several new» clauses were added to the Bill, which was read a third time M<J passed. WELUNOTON SCHOOL OV OHOOIf. The Wellington School of Design Bflf wae farther considered in Committee. ' CUuee 2, Testing land for a Bohool of Deeign in the Education Boards agreed to by 26 to 20. Mr Fish moved that progress be $*» ported on the Bill. He objected to ppwetf being given to borrow £4000 for thia purpose. After a lengthy discussion, the motion, toi reporting progress resulted in a ti9—• Ayes, 28 $ noes, 28. ' " The Chairman gave hie casting vote with the. noes. Mr Fishbb said after the vote just given he should withdraw the Billootheupderataiiding that it should be introdacad M| eatly stage next session. The Bill was then withdrawn. CHIKUSB BIUCu Mr Pbegub moved that the report ef 4fe* conference on the Chinese Bill be agtwfl .to. • •''•'.'■ Agreed to. ' GIBLB* HIOH SOHOOIi. Mr FisHKB eaid after the. promise oe made that be should not proceed witto the Auokland Girls' High Sohool Bill Jtt the, absence of the member for Timaru fee should more that the Bill be dischargee from the order pajwr. Agreed to. THOBNDOX aXOIiAHATIOir 2B&* ' This Bill was committed »od_puee4 without amendment, read a tMra tea* andpaesed. BOAD. BOABOS ACT AJ&KHVJtXST V3JU, TMb Bill was committed. Mr HisLOP explained that the first part of the Bill would be amended, Uxnitlng i| tocKrtain Boad Boardfl, Clause S, power to levy additional general rate. •■ -?• ' ■■ • ■■■•■■ McMaechaht moved—"That the shall not exceed three-eighths c$ * penny in the pound, ioetead of toreo farthing* in districts in which the Counties Acfc hafl been nwpended." The amendment wae carried by 86 to 16, and the clause; agreed to. Clause 9, receiver may bo appointed. Sir J. Hall moved to amend the dauee making it discretionary with the Judge of the Supreme Court to appoint a receiver instead of mandatory. : Mr Hiblop aaid the amendment woma render the clause inoperative. The amendment was agreed to. Mr Wakd moved a new clause making it. compulsory for every receiver to pafenah a balance sheet of the Bead Board. Agreed to, slightly amended. Capt. Sussjem. protested against a fliu of this kind being passed through House, giving enbrmoaa powers to Boa* Bowde, -without membets usdesHtattdag what they were doing. " ■-. . M The Bill wae read a third time by 28 to 4. ■ • ;i .';, ; ; HAVAL AKD BXUTXJSB3, ',^ p , Mr Fbbqos moved the rceondre#||Sg>« the Naval a&d Military tee» Land Bill, rewlt ol a confwenee^S^^wSJ

j "SffSL .t 150 tiU 7Sop.ia- i EVENING SifTiNG- '■ The House resumed at 730 p.m. < eOVBBKMKKT PBINTIKO OFTIC* ■ Mr Sbjdok called the attention of the : Minister for f üblic Works to the condition ■ of the staircase* at the new Government Printing Office. He said they were altogtfher few narrow, and were positively unsafe in c«*» cf fire. , ' Mr MrrcHKLBOM eaid he should have the TTTftttr- ecquir d into at once. DI3TBICT KAILWATS. Beplvin? to Mr Djwnie Stewart, The Pbbmibb said the Government regretted that owing to the late tite session they would have to •*«&» tke District Railways Purchasing BilL it would be introduced again next year, and thYratep&yers would be held liable in the meantime. PSOP*S>iD COMPENSATION. Sir H. α-tkinsoh mo ci "That the report of ih- Committee on the petition of John Luodon aad Jlalcrtm C«miohael oe adopted." The Committee had recommended certain sums of money to b» paid to those p titionere, and he desired the Hcnse to come to same decision on the xn&tter. .. Af .er a lengthy discussion, the motion wsa agreed to. THE MOKAtT CLAIM. Bir H. Atdksoh eaid Government had been in communication with Joshua Jooee solicitor with respect to bringing in a Bill dealisg with the recommendation of the Commission on his case. They hadl received a Bill froai those solicitors which they thought wm not at all admissible, but they woud introduce another BH before moving the third reading of th* Appropriation Act, and allow tne Housa to deal with it and move any amendments they thought fit _ .. The Bill was then re*d a first tune. APPSOPKIATIOH 8H.1.. Bir H. Atdnsoh moved the third readißjr of the Appropriation BilL Sir G Umy moved as an addition — "That the House expresses it* opinion th«% the property tax should be amended eaily next eeesion, with the view to establicing an income tax and land tax, exempting improvement." The fepxAUK said that the amendment oould not be added to the motion for the third reading of the BilL It would have to be moved in lieu of it. If carried it would not defeat the Bill, but simply defer the third reading till another day. Sir G. Gut then moved the amendaeat, and spoke at some length on the whole question of taxation, urging that a bad and income tax should be substituted far the property tax, which was absolutely isjaxioaa to the whole community, besides being a most deceiving and unfair tax. Mr Thoxsov (Auckland) was in entire sympathy with Sir G. Grey in his opposition to the properly tax, but he could not de anything to interfere with the passing of the Appropriation Bill, which was a matter of necessity. He wished it to be understood that he had no sympathy whatever with the property tax, and if Sir G. Grey brought it forward next session he would have no warmer supporter, than Mr Fish protested against Sir G. Grey perpetually bringing forward motions of this kind, which oould have no practical rasolt whatever, especially at this late stage e< the session. The House had had tbe Bame speech over and over again from

the hen. gentleman, and he (Mr Fish) &rm3j believed that when Oβ question TH brought forirard next session Bir G. Grey would be oonspicuous by ail absence. Bβ m as much opposed to the property tax a* the member for Auckland Central vat, bat the latter had never consulted iiim in aaj shape on the question, and he had v«ry great doubts about Sir G. Grey's ■tsosrity in it. , -Mr SiDixnr had always understood that file third reading of the Appropriation Bill vua smitable time for moTing a motion of B| kind, and he held that the member for Aiekland Central was doing bis duty in W&ging it forward. His opinion was that Wα Government could hold their seats wnless they took the question of the. incidence of taxation into consideration. He oondemned Mr Fish in strong terms for referring to Sir G. Grey's speech as bald platitudes that had fallen on barren ground. The Parana here rose and said that if ~ this debate were continued much longer it would be impossible to pees any Bill dealing with the Jones' case this session. MrTHoicrsoN (ilareden) thought this was not the proper time to bring down a proposal of this kind, but if a division were celled for he should rote for Sir G. Grey'e amendment, as be felt; strongly on {he question of the property tax. Mr Booßn Mackxnzix pointed out that $be Tree sot in order, as it was sot reierant to the Bill before the House. Tha Spukbb said the amendment was ~ certainly somewhat irrelevant, but on the motion for taird reading cf the appropriation. Bill it was quite competent to move an abstract motion of tais kind, as it painted out another way in which the mosey could be raised. Mr Smith rose to say that after the Premier's statement he Boonld simply content fcfawjfi* with supporting the amendment , Mr Hobb* was entirely in sympathy with S.r G. Grey's amendment, but after the 'distinct promise given by the Premier that the whole question should be considered next session, he could net understand why fci* G. Grey had brought it forward. Mr GoLDii supported the amendment. Sir J. HaUi asked the Premier whether aay opportunity would be given for disouaaing the question of assistance to private schools. Sir H. Atenbos said he should be glad to give ruan an opportunity. He would ■Imply say with r.eptot to Sir G. Grey's •m*ndmenw th*t he regretted exceedingly, after a large number of members had left, when Government had distinctly promised to have the whole matter discussed next nfrimij to see the amendment brought forward. He thanked those hon. gentlemen who, while they were strongly in favor of the amendment, yet rose to the occasion and refused to rote for sham resolutions of this kind, that could hare no practical effect M> Moss denied that it was a sham or bogus resolution. It wae the action of the Government all through the session that was a sham. He cordially supported the amendment The amendment was then put and lost by 35 to 14. The Bill was read a third time and passed. m xoxi.tr bill Mr Hxs&ot moved the second reading of ihe Mokau Mohakatino Bill to grant «ertain concessions to Mr Joshua Jones in ngard to the Mokau block. He detailed the circumstances connected with the introduction of the Bill, and explained its ncoTisions, the second clause setting forth that certificate of title by the NatWe Land Court to the Mokau block shall be issued forthwith. The Bill also provided tb*fc partition of the block be Y>mAa in order to ascertain and allocate all the respective intewate md ■ha~ee of the Natives who have signed a lease from the Native owners of the block to Joshua Jones. He said Government did sot •Tβ their -way to grant a monetary MBjaJdiiratioa to Mr Jones, as suggested by Uβ. mad thought it inadvisable to give " jria» further oonoeesiooe than nrb*t wm a*t down in the Bill. . . . , B*ttA»c» thought Jonee had acted in Tetraiehtforward «y » itating plainly 3£ttowaSed,Mdhe did not we there *W objectionable a this J*iki*lMte period of the aaoum itihoald

wt be dealt with. Hβ held, however, &at consistently with acting fairly to the Satires concerned, they should also deal iberally with Jones. Mr Taipxjjl aaked that the 80l be postxmed till next day in order that it might »translated into the Maori language. It ma on behalf of the Native owners of this and whom he represented that he made Ms reqaeet. Hβ therefore moved the adoarnment of the debate. Agreed to. PUBLIC WOBKS APPBOPBIATIOK BILL. Sir fl. Atkinsox moved the third readng of the rublic Works Appropriation BilL MtWalkxb said he did not think the Jovernm«n6 had much to congratulate jhemselves upon tkis session, and ac the Premier had not ep ken on this question lie should do it for him. Hβ ventured to say that the Opposition had treated the Government generously, and had assisted them to carry the only useful measure that bad been passed this seesioa. It had resulted, however, in the disorganisation not anly of the Government, bat of the Oppo■ition. Hβ held it wae most improper to I hear the Government only that night inviting members to bring down large questions of policy such ac taxation and of revising t&e whole education system. He wat quite certain that unless the House was divided on a question of principle they would never get good government or good aiministratijn. Hβ ie*liy believed that the Premier by hie tarJf proposals had done a great daal for the future of the country, and a very few yean would prove that be had taken a atep in the right direction. That was the only consolation the Opposition would take home with them. At the same time, be could not compliment the Premier on the manner in which be had transacted the business of the session, and with the excaption of one or two Bills that had been passed, none of the other measures woull have much tffest on the country. Hβ trusted that the Native Bills would have the effect the House desired, and that the Native question would be settled for some time to come. It was only by the forbearance of the Opposition, however, that the Premier was enabled to get those Bills through the House. He hoped the Premier would enlighten them before this Bill passed, as to what the real financial position of the colony was. At present, as far as they knew, the Premier started with a deficiency of about .£IOO,OOO, and he hoped they would have full information on that point. There was also a general impression that his estimates of revenue would not be realised, and that the country would have to face a different kind of finance in future. He hoped, however, that the country was mistaken in that respect, and that the Premier would be able to put a better face on the position. Mr Bxbthah was somewhat amused at the speech of the member for Aehburton, who hoped that next session strong party lines would be formed, and at the same time he expressed his thanks to those members who had risen above party to carry the tariff. He could not join in the hope, however, that the tariff would result so satisfactorily as Mc Walter anticipated, he thought it would have a contrary effect on the country. Hβ fully believed that the Native Bills would have a beneficial effect on the future of the country, and he wished to thank Mr Bullanoe for the able assistance he had given in passing the Bills into law. There was one question, however, that should be taken in hand by the Government,and that was the subject of Charitable Institutions, which urgently required attention. He trusted, also, the Premier would use hie best endeavors to settle the Jones' case, as it ahould be dealt with finally this session. Mr Ballancb accepted Mr Beetham's compliment in the spirit in which it was offered. He defended the action the Opposition had taken upon the tariff question, and said when an Opposition had determined to reject all measures, whether good or bad, they lost their functions as an

Opposition. Hβ held that already there wen some good results from the passing of the tariff, and he felt sure it would benefit the country greatly. Bef erring to tie Native Bills he hoped the time was not far distant when the Government of the colony would resume theii colonising functions. A majority oi the Honse had determined to give the Native policy a trial, and he hoped it would prove successful. The whole session, in hie opinion, had been productive of good results, and not the least important result had been that they had prevented the Government from bringing iown any measure that would break up the Education system, and Government would think twice before they attempted to interfere with that system. Eβ thought the Premier would have to consider in his next financial proposals, whether he should not develope and improve the education system instead of weakening it. MrMnrrxATH regarded the session as one of the most disastrous that he ever remembered, and said that he could not Forget that the advent of Government on bhe Treasury benohes was due to a political fraud. They had deserted all their pledges and violated every promise they had made, rhe manner also in which the protection policy was carried was a type of their whole administration during the lession. Ererything was done oat of ixpediency and a desire to retain their leata on the benches. Hβ thought they irould never have a satisfactory Government till questions of principle were preferred rather than a desire to retain office, ant they had no such Government at present ia power. Mr Fjikqus contrasted the attitude of Mc Menteath with that of the other Opposition members, as those hon. gentlemen could support some of Bhe Government measures, but the mind of the member for Tβ Aro was bo prejudiced that he could not see a single bright spot in the whole o( the Government policy. As to the history of the present Government being a ehameful one of expediency, Mr Menteath was one of the moet noted oppositionists that ever had a seat in the House. He had sold himself politically over and over again, and had thrown over every party in turn with whom he had been working. He (Mr Fergus) asserted they would never have eatief&crory government till all euch gentlemen -as the member for Tβ Aro, who held euch piebald politics, were out of Parliament, and the sooner Mr Menteath's constituents knew it the better. He had taunted him (Mr Fergus) with supporting the Midland railway since he became Minister, but the House cauldnot forget that hon. gentleman had been an ardtnfc advocate of that line as long as it suited him to do so. The sole reason for Mr Menteath'e opposition to the Government was because the Premier had weighed him in the balance and found him wanting. The hon. gentleman had asserted that the whole history of the session was one of broken promises, but he had not proved one single case in which they had done so. He was quite content to leave the country to judge between cue Government and the member for Te Aro. Dr. Newman deprecated these personalities in the dying hours of the session. He thought the seeeion could show a very poor record, and he earnestly hoped that the doture rules would be adopted next session to put an end to the miserable waste of time that occurred so constantly in the House. Hβ ventured to say that in not a single one of the local bodies was to be witnessed anything like the waste of time that went on in Parliament, and they would have no reform in this respect till their rules of procedure were altered. Respecting the Bill under discussion, he regretted that the House was breaking up and leaving the Government to carry oat a policy that would, revolt in a deficit of £160,000. The revenue, he felt certain, would fill off, and would not realise anything like the Premier's estimate, and he ; waited to see how this unhappy country could bear the increased taxation which was sure to follow. Mr B&TJCB skid the events of this session had been of bo unprecedented a character that be wished to Bay a few words. Although they had passed a policy of protective tendency, still he was not surprised at the fiscal policy of the Government this session, as ccmuag events had east their shadows before, The carrying of that policy, however, had put » very severe strain on many members who had

faithfully followed the Premier tor years. Although he was one of the fint to sever his allegiance os that question, he did not regret the attitude he had assumed. He did not despair yet of that policy being reversed, and he should never cease to ape&k againrt it as long as he was in the House. Referring to Mr Fergus's speech, he (Mr Bruce) regretted that the Minister for Justice had attacked Mr Mentaath rather unfairly, and he thought that boo. gentleman was entitled to aspire to any position in the House. He had great faith in the adminutntion of the Government, and while he saw no hope of forming a legitimateparty.solong ac the Government administered the affairs of the country as satisfactorily as they were doing at present he saould have no deaire to displace them. Sir H. Atkinsok eaid it was quite evident they could not expect to get party government at present, because there were no great principles on which the party lines could be formed. There were distinct party lines in tihe colony before the provinces were abolished, but 'not since then, and the Public , Works policy had tended to obliterate them still more? He thanked Messrs Walker and Ballance for the moderate tone of their speeches, and regretted Mr Menteath had imported such bittern isa into the debate, and he thought the statement of the member for To Aro that the Government was a Gorernment of expediency was a reflection on the House, as they permitted the Government to remain on the benches by a large majority. As to Mr Menteatn's high sense of principle he (Sir H. Atkinson) had been informed that tne member for Tβ Aro was willing to intrigue with the most pronounced protectionists in the House in order to turn out the Government, and that was the gentleman who spoke so much of principle. Replying to Mr Walker, he denied that there would be a large deficit at the end of the year. He had every rewan to hope that nis eatim&ta would be realised, and if not, that at any rate the expenditure would be so reduced as to meet the revenue. Aβ to the Midland Uailway, Qf which bo much had been said against the Government, he pointed out tb.it when the Government came into office they found that contract in a most unsatisfactory position, and sinking their own opinions had risen to the occasion and carried out the undertaking. Beferring to Mr Ballance's remarks on education, he said there were men in the Government who felt ac strongly on the necessity of maintaining the education system as any man in the House, but they must deal with the question as one of business, and not as a financial matter. He did not agree that the session was a barren one, and he felt that in years to come, it would redound to the credit of Government that in a time like this they had faced the position and done their best to lift the colony out of its difficulties. He thought it him greatly to their credit that, disregarding all party ties, they had so faced the position, and nothing bnt a sense of the condition of tne country would have iaduoed him to propose a policy which he felt would be likely to separate him from the friends of years. It was no light matter for him to propose this tariff on that ground alone, and he felt that his free trade friends had recognised the dim calties of the position by refusing to withdraw their support, as the member for Tβ Aro had done. He felt proud of the work of the session and of the Native Bills which Government had passed, and which he felt sure would be of great benefit to the country. Government would not allow the session to finish till these Bills became law. 'He went on to say that Ministers would carefully consider the whole question of charitable aid during theme ess &s suggested by Mr Beetham. The great difficulty of the Government this session had been the want of an organised Opposition, and consequently no one was responsible for the waste of time that had occurred all through the session. An instance had occurred that night, when several Opposition members walked out of the House on Sir G. Grey's amendment, which would not have happened if the paity were properly organised. They could never have order until the Opposition were in a position to say they would not tolerate such proceedings. He thanked the Housa for its patient hearing, and moved the third reading of the Bill, which was agreed to on the voices, and the Bill passed. The House adjourned at 1.20 a.m. till 11 a.m.