THE ASSEMBLY.

Press, Volume XII, Issue 1501, 31 August 1867, Page 2

THE ASSEMBLY.

In the House of Representatives, on the 20th instant, Mr Beadshaw asked the Hon. the Colonial Treasurer— •' Whether the fines imposed by the Provincial Council of Otago on Messrs Robinson and Every, for contempt, and paid by those gentlemen to the Speaker of the House, have been paid tuto the Colonial Treasury ? Mr FiTZHKRBEftT, in reply, said that no advices had been received of the payment having been made into the Colonial Treasury. The latest advices were to the 16th instant. Mr Cabgill asked the Hon. the Minister for Defence—" Whether pre vision has beeu made in the estimates to supply a gunboat, and other needful appliances, to the Otago Naval Volunteers ?" Colonel Hatjltain said that the" hon. gentleman must recollect thlsfc there were other Naval Volunteer Companies besides those in Otago, and if gunboats were provided for that province they wouldbby 0s y0 to be furnished to other places. The Government had not been able t° place any sum on the estimates for the purpose. If, however, when the estimates were presented it was 4 thought that they had been too niggardly, and the hon. gentleman could persuade & majority of the House that such was the case, the Government would probably make no violent opposition to an address being made to bis Excellency that such a sum be added.

Mr Macakdeevv asked the Hon. the Colouial Secretary—" Whether or not it is the intention of the Government to introduce during the present session any measure for the removal of doubts as to tho power of Provincial Legislatures to take land for roads and other public purposes?" Mr Stafford Baid that ifc was not the intention of thß Government to take any action on the matter until it was known in what manner the Im* perial Government had dealt with the Provincial Compulsory hmd Taking Bill of last session, which had been reserved for the signification of her Majesty's pleasure. He expected that by the Panama mail information would be received from England with respect to that Bill, and it would be useless to legislate until they knew how it had beea dealt with.

The report of the Public Petitions Committee on several petitions that had been referred to them was brought UP The Resident Magistrates Bill and Medical Practitioners Bill were read a third time, and parsed The Otago Goldfields Judicial Officers BiH was read a second time, and the Volunteers Act Amendment Bill was read a third time, and passed. MrTKATERS, in moving the second rendin* of the Conveyancing Ordinance Amendment Bill, said there were many matters relating to the forms of conveyance now in use which were inapplicable to the circumstances of the colony, and winch caused an ncrease of expense rather than a litigation of it, which was the object 53?ori«nnal Ordinance. This Bill wrb intended to simplify the law, and delude cases omitted in the purview f the old Ordinance. He proposed to Stpr the law so that there should not h irnnlied an absolute covenant on the il nf land warranting the property Itat "he world. That; was o»l 7 ; „ll in Eosira' 1 in cases of mortgage, 3* p ro »-dthat *. obi,™** nnder the covenant should be confined to the acts of the party conveying He nroposed also, in cases ot mortgages, that there should be a sale in case of non-payment of interest, if there had been failure of payment for three months. He. proposed also, in cases of leases, where there was a covenant to keep in good and tenarttable repair, that the tenant should not be bound to rebuild in case of earthquake, fire, or tempest. He also proposed to gi ve p° wer of re " entr y at the expiry of three calendar months instead of six months, on npn-payment of rent, and to take away the power of redemption unless it was exercised before execution was executed. He would also give power to borrow on deeds by a memorandum to be deposited, which might be discharged by a very simple form • and he proposed that they should bear the same stamp as mortgages and re-conveyances, "if any." He had inserted" these words, for at present there was no stamp on mortgages. He trusted, as the object of the Bill was to simplify the law, that there wuuld be no objection to it. .

Mr J. O'Neill would like to ask the hon. member if he proposed to do away with the principle of Torrens' Act, and also whether he intended to simplify and make cheaper the conveyance of property. The present rates were very large for a new country like New Zealand. The registration fees were also found to be ruinously large, and the Bill seemed to retain that principle. Although a person might borrow on a deed of Bale, yet the slip of paper had to be registered, for which the party would have to pay the fee of ten shillings, as if it were a large deed, consequently there would be no saving in that direction. He wished to know if the hon. member was prepared to modify that . clause in the Bill when in committee. He more particularly rose to ascertain whether it was proposed to give effect to the Tjnneiple of Torrens' Act. Mr Staffqed said the Government would not oppose the second reading of the Bill, but, as the hon. gentleman (Mr Travers) was aware, very considerable and important changes in the existing law would be effected by it. The same remark was also applicable to the next measure on the order paper—the Land Registration Ordinance Amendment Bill—which would indeed more largely alter the existing law thaa the measure under consideration. He would suggest to the hon. gentleman, assuming the House would read this Bill and the Land Registration Ordinance Amendment Bill a second time, that both Bills should be referred to a select committee, with power to take evidence. He should very much like the Attorney-General, and those judges of the Supreme Court who were in Wellington at the preßen f . time, to have an opportunity of considering both those measures, and giving their opinion upon them. Mr Tbavees, in reply, said he was not aware that Torrens' Act was incorporated in the New Zealand laws. The Land Registration Act had been a long time hatching its young, and had produced none as yet. It would prove a very costly and troublesome matter to those who might be brought under its operation in this country. The Bill under consideration merely referred to the existing modes of conveyance, which it did not alter. He did not propose to modify the scale of charges for conveyance, as he would not take upon himself to say whether they were excessive or not. It would be necessary to retain the registration, otherwise there would be no notice to persons dealing with the owner of land on the question of encumbrances. He felt that it would be desirable that the two measures referred to should be thoroughly understood, and he would accept the suggestion of. the Colonial Secretary to refer them to a select committee. He had cousulted with hon. members, who were lawyers, in the House, and they concurred with him as to the expediency of such a measure as the Conveyancing Ordinance Amendment Bill. He had also talked the matter over with the Attorney-General, and pointed out to him the direction which he (Mr Travers) proposed to take witk the Bill, and he saw no objection whatever to the legislation. As to the alteration of the Land Registration Ordinance, considerable difference of opinion existed. Iv the examination of a gentleman who nought admission as a professional man before one of the judges in this country, one of the questions asked of him in regard to legal statutes was, " In what instance does the Statute Law of New Zealand sanction a direct "fraud ? " Of course such a question would stagger members of the profession, as they did not look upon the Statute Laws of the country as sanctioning fraud, or as holding out a premium to those who committed it. It was to put an end to what was con- ' sidered fraud, in the eye of one of the judges at least, that he proposed an alteration in that Act. If the Bills were read a second time he would ask

to have them referred to a select committee. He trusted they would pass into law during the course of this session, as he felt satisfied they would be of great advantage not only to those engaged in conveyancing, but also to the public at large, by facilitating its transaction and cheapening the transfer of property. He would give notice for the appointment of a select committee, to whom the Bill should be referred. The Bill was read a second time. On the motion of Mr Trovers the Land Registration Ordinance Amendment Bill was read a second time. The Provincial Lawsuits Act Amendment Bill, passed through committee without amendment, was read a third time, and passed. On the motion of Mr Travers, the Conveyancing Ordinance Amendment Bill, and the Land Registration Ordinance Amendment Bill, were referred to a select committee, consisting of Mr Hall, Mr G. Macfarlan, Mr Curtis, Mr Brandon, Mr Carleton, Mr A. S. Atkinson, and the mover, three to form a quorum; the committee to report in ten days. A Bill for the Protection of Salmon and Trout was introduced and read a first time. Mr R. Graham wished to get a sum of £2000 placed on the estimates as a reward for the apprehension of Kereopa, the principal murderer of the Rev. Mr Volkner. Mr Stafford stated that the Government had already offered a reward of £1500 for the apprehension of Kereopa, and that fact was made known to the Arawas ; and the reward was lately renewed, but had had no effect. By the assurance that the Government would take any action of this kind, not only in the case of Kereopa but of other murderers, the object of the hon. member would doubtless be attained. Mr Travsrs trusted that the Government would pay a reward, whether Kereopa was brought in alive or dead. Mr G.Graham expressed an opinion that a reward was unnecessary, as Kereopa would be taken without one. Mr Hall was glad to hear that Kereopa could be taken without any reward being offered ; be only wished the hon. member would tell the Government how it was to be done. Mr Cracboft Wilson, C.8., said he would be the first to give the hon. member a vote of thanks if he captured Kereopa, but the converse had to be considered ; there was such a thing as being an accessory to the concealment of a murderer, and he hoped the hon. member, by not effecting the capture, would not bring himself in that category.

Mr Stafford said he had expected, j when the term " converse" was used, that it was going to be said that Kereopa might catch the hon. member. After some further discussion the motion was negatived. Mr Reeves, in asking leave to introduce the New Zealand Bankruptcy Bill, said, —I can hardly ask leave to introduce an important measure like a new Bankruptcy Bill into this House without explaining the reasons which have induced the committee to arrive at the conclusion that it was necessary. Thp committee was composed of a number of members from various provinces of the colony, and they came unanimously to the conclusion that the existing law was altogether faulty, and incapable of being worked with advantage. They presumed, also, from the fact that the Government had called for the committee, that they, to a certain extent, had the same view of the question, and the members of the committee resolved, therefore, to introduce a new Act, and I believe they have the support of the Government, and I trust they will also that of the House. The new Act has not been, I need hardly say, framed by the committee, but has been adapted from the English Act, which, I may say, is the result of the concentrated experience of the world on this subject, and has been adapted by three members, two of them hon. and learned members, the member for Christchurch (Mr Travers), the member for Lyttleton (Mr Macfarlan), and the member for the Northern Division (Mr T. Macfarlane). These hon. members have given great and close attention to the subject, and have adapted this Act to the wants of the colony, and I believe they have found that it is easily to be adapted to the machinery at present in existence here. I shall not trouble the House, on the present occasion, with any of the details of the Bill. It will, I trust, soon be in the hands of members, and they will then be able to judge of its merits. I think they will perceive that it is a good measure, and, compared with other measures lately put into their hands, that it is ■ drafted in an exceedingly Bimple and intelligible form, so that those who run may read in fact, and that alone will render it of great use to the colony. There are not many fundamental changes introduced in the practice by this measure. One of the most important is, that it proposes to do away with imprisonment for debt. There are important changes in detail; such as the substitution of one accountant in bankruptcy for the numerous inspectors who now hold office; and the spirit of the measure is this, that it will enable creditors to appoint their own trustees and manage their own affairs. It has been repeatedly stated, it has in fact been the great objection to measures of this kind, that if the power of managing bankrupt estates was placed in the hands of creditors they would not take the necessary trouble. The main reason of that, I take it, has been that the Acts have been so cumbersome and unintelligible, and the delays of the Court and the vexations to which creditors have been put have been so irremediable, that they have been disgusted and have been unable to get persons to act as trustees. This Act is simple and comprehensive, and those who take the trouble to look into it will understand it, and I think trustees will be found to undertake the duties, and carry them out satisfactorily. In aßking the House for leave to intro-

duce this measure, I may say that I hope they will look on it in the same light as that in which they were invited to look on a series of Bills introduced by Government the other day — us the result of the collective wisdom of the old country, and that they will not impede its progress anymore than is necessary; for the whole colony is looking for a measure of this kind, and if a good one is passed, I am satisfied that the country will be very grateful for it, and I trust, therefore, that this Bill will meet with the approval of the Government, and of the House.

Mr Travers, in seconding the motion, begged to disclaim a large portion of the merit due to the preparation of this measure in the form in which it should be presented to the House. The chief merit was due to the two gentleman with whom he had been associated on the committee, and he might say that his assistance was but small as compared with their labours. The present Bill would, he believed, work well; it would place virtually in the hands of the creditors and their trustees almost the entire management of the estate, and the Supreme Court would only be resorted to, if necessary, to maintain the rights of the creditors. Mr Stafford—The hon. member for Avon has stated his belief that the country will be grateful for this Bill. 1 have no doubt it will if the Bill is entitled to the character ascribed to it. The Bill, I understand, is founded on a Bill which at present is under the consideration of the Imperial Parliament. For many years successive Lord Chancellors and AttorneysGeneral have made efforts in one or both branches of the Imperial Parliament to have a Bill passed to improve the existing bankruptcy law. It isprobablethatthe Bill under consideration of the Imperial Parliament may have become law at the present time, in consequence of being the result of many years' experience of the operation of a similar law in that part of the United Kingdom called Scotland, where it is said they have got the best bankruptcy laws and the worst marriage laws of any civilized community. I trust this Bill will be found as acceptable to New Zealand as the working of the Scotch system is to Scotland, where it has been so many years in operation. At the same time I cannot say I feel particularly sanguine, for I am aware that there is, perhaps, no one question that has been found so difficult to solve ; and if one considers the character of the insolvency proceedings it is not to be wondered at. that difficulty should exist. It is almost impossible to make an unvarying law to meet equitably all cases of insolvency. When we know that one of the largest commercial nations in the world—a nation almost every male member of which is mixed up with trading transactions — had tried some twenty-four bankruptcy laws in seventy-two years — I mean the United States of America —we may recognize what a difficult question it is to legislate upon satisfactorily. I think tho hon. member and the select committee deserve the thanks of the House for the great earnestness and zeal with which they have brought a large amount of legal and commercial experience to bear on this question. I trust it will be as acceptable to the country as the hon. member anticipates, and if it is, it will be as acceptable to any Government that may for the time have the conduct of public affairs. Leave was granted, and Messrs Reeves, Travers, and G. Macfarlan, ordered to prepare and bring in the Bill, which was read a first time, ordered to be printed, and the second reading fixed for Tuesday next. The House adjourned at twenty minutes to nine o'clock.