DUNDAS MACKENZIE.

Auckland Star, Volume LVI, Issue 65, 18 March 1925, Page 8

DUNDAS MACKENZIE.

• THE ABRAMS METHOD. MEDICAL BOARD'S MOTION. EIGHTH DAY OF HEARING. NEARING THE END. The eighth day of the hearing of the Medical Board's application to have Henry Dundas Mackenzie, medical practitioner, Auckland, struck off the roll, was reached to-day. Mr. Meredith, with Mr. Paterson, appears for the Medical Board, and Mr. Dickson represents Dr. Mackenzie. A woman, whose home is at the Bluff, stated in evidence that a Southern doctor had diagnosed her trouble as an internal tumour, and said an operation would be necessary. She had three months' treatment from Dr. Dundas Mackenzie, and afterwards felt better than slip had done for years. Dr. Mackenzie had advised her to have an operation when she got home, but she had not done so. She had been in Auckland three weeks on this, the second occasion, and now felt very much better as the result of treatment. . Another witness stated that as a result of the Abrams treatment, given by Dr. William Pettit, he had been able to walk without sticks, which had been made necessary following on an accident. Three other witnesses spoke in favour of the Abrams treatment. One said: "Three years ago I was a dying woman, but now I can enjoy life." Another said there was no comparison betweeu her condition now and what it was before she saw Dr. Mackenzie. Radio Expert's Evidence. The presence of a continuous ticking noise while trying to pick up San Francisco station was referred to in evidence by a wireless expert. He was unable to get the sVtion owing to the noise, and after safcjffying- himself that it was not caused by inductiun from the power lines nearby, he thought that it might be due to Dr. Mackenzie's machine. He rang up Dr. Mackenzie, and ascertained'that he was not using the machine, and it was suggested that it was probable that an electrical machine was being used at a nursing home. On ringing up, witness found that an electrical machine wa3 in use at the nursing home. The ticking noise ceased when the machine was stopped. To witness , mind that signified that the machine was radiating energy sufficient to interfere with the reception of -wireless signals. Wireless people thoroughly understood this matter. The nursing home was .about a quarter of a mile away from witness. He had seen both J the diagnostic and healing machines, and their theory was very similar to that of wireless. After experimenting, witness had come to the conclusion that there was a lot of truth in the claim made for the machine as regards the suggestion that the human body radiated energy of different and varying wave lengths. Mr. Meredith: Are you prepared to put a dozen samples, some with blood on, into the machine, and tell us when the blood is in and when it is not?— Yes. And you think you can get it right?— lies, according to previous reading. Witness was quite prepared to give his Honor a demonstration. Mr. Meredith: Then we will have the blood test. Mr. Dickson: Very good. We have no objection at all. Other witnesses were then called in support of the treatment. Mr. Dickson Objects. Mr. Dickson stated that one of his witnesses, who had formerly been a patient of Dr. Hardie Neil, and who had given evidence yesterday, was interviewed by Dr. Hardie Veil after the Court adjournment. Dr. Hardie Neil asked the lady if she had given evidence against him. She said "Yes." Dr. Hardie Neil replied, "How dare you give evidence against mc- in these proceedings!" Counsel entered his protest against that. Mr. Justice Herdman said he was not there to take any part in a private squabble. Mr. Dickson said he could only protest, in view of the fact that Dr. Margaret Knight had approached one of his witnesses, and Dr. Hardie Neil had interviewed another. Counsel suggested itwas most improper. • Mr. Paterson explained that witnesses had been ordered out of Court, and that while Dr. Margaret Knight was in the Arbitration Court waiting to be called a conversation started. His Honor: I am here to try the charges against Dr. Mackenzie. Such matters are beside the question. Mr. Meredith said he had not previously raised any objection, but he now asked that Dr. Mackenzie be required to remain in the Court and not to hold Converse with his witnesses outside. Mr. Dickson: You do not mean to say defendant is holding conversation with his witnesses at the present time. ■ Mr. Justice Herdman intervened. He said he would have no private squabbles. There has been no intimidation, and the matter could well be allowed to drop. The usher was then sent out for Dr. Mackenzie, who entered the Court a moment later. Too Many Patients. Several more patients were called by Mr. (Dickson. Mr. Justice Herdman: There must be some limit to this kind of evidence, Mr. Dickson. Otherwise, it would become a public scandal if this kind of evidence went on. Mr. Dickson: I propose to call evidence to satisfy your Honor that I am not dealing with an isolated case. His Honor: Well, this evidence is purely of a negative character. You can go on calling all Dr. Mackenzie's patients, but you are only repeating evidence. What is the use ? It is only trifling with the Court. . Mh Dickson: But I suggest, sir, that the evidence is relevant, as Dr. Mackenzie is charged with not believing in the efficacy of the Abrams method. • His Honor: He is charged with using the system when he had no honest belief in it. Mr. Dickson: Yes, your Honor, and I am cailing evidence to show that Dr. Mackenzie did have an honest belief. His Honor: You can go on multiplying them, but what is the use? You can bring a. whole host. Yesterday you assured mc you had only ten more witnesses or so to call. . Mi , . Dickson: That is so, your Honor, hut T. am getting offers of witnesses from all quarters. The Judge: The Court can't sit indefinitely like this, hearing evidence that is only a repetition of that given by previous witni-Rscß. Tt will have to be kept ron«o,mblo limits. Mr. Dickson. fWtaS ™! ! a M, y °, Ur Honor lmt T hav ° ?^td m S, d C aIi e "th e m; VitnCßßC? ' nnd haVC

His Honor: What is the use of going on with all these people, who only say the same thing? Mr. Dickson: If your Honor rules in that direction I am bound to accept it. His Honor: How many more witnesses have you got? Mr. Dickson: At least twelve more. His Honor: Then limit it to twelve. I do not want to stop you, of course, unless the conduct of the case is unreasonable. Mr. Paterson said 3S witnesses had now been called for the defence. Mr. Meredith said the evidence was of negative value. It could only be relative to the suggestion that Dr. Mackenzie had no reasonable ground for believing in the machine and treatmeet. If Mr. Dickson went on, they could, strictly speaking, rebut every case. Mr. Dickson: But you can"t rebut? Mr. Meredith: We can — Mr. Dickson: Humph! Mr. Meredith: We can go into each case and show that the improvements were not due to the Abrams machine. His Honor informed Mr. Dickson that he had allowed him the widest latitude. He could call the twelve witnesses if he pleased. He accepted counsel's assurances a3 to the other witnesses available. Mr. Diekson said he would call no more patients, in the circumstances. Expert Engineer's Evidence. Frederick Howe Hadfield. chartered electrical engineer, mechanical engineer, instrument maker, M.1.E.E., and lately consulting engineer to the Government of Natal and the City Council at Durban, deposed to hax-ing made ten Abrams machines. In the making the Abrams machine followed ordinary electrical principles, but no man on earth could say what the reaction was. There was no mystery about the osciloclast. Though people could not see current coming from it, one could not destroy energy. If the power went in it had to come out. Witness had used the osciloclast, and the first experience one got if one sat in front of the machine (operating at the wrong rate) was a tremendous stomach ache. (Laughter.) "Oh, I can assure you of that! And I am not the only one!" Mr. Dickson: I see. And if Dr. Bruce Mackenzie says no energy comes through that osciloclast. what then? Witness: Dr. Bruce Mackenzie may be a very clever man in his own profession, but he knows nothing about electricity whatsoever. (Laughter.) Court Orderly: Silence! Witness: Energy does come from the oseiloclast, despite Dr. Bruce Mackenzie. (Laughter.) With reference to the "Scientific American" and the statements published in that journal concerning the machine, witness said the "Scientific American" had no scientific reputation whatsoever. It was madness to speak about illusions. He would say that the writer who made the statement in the "Scientific American" did not know what he was talking about. He was talking through his hat. (Laughter). Witnesss could erect Abrams machines in the court and could give a demonstration. Work on the Abrams machine was, of course, outside his sphere. . To Mr. Paterson: The machine did oscillate. He was prepared to pit his opinion against Professor Milligan's. Mr. Paterson: Now, Mr. Hadfield, did Dr. Mackenzie tell you that you had cancer of the liver? Witness: I don't know. Don't remember. His Honor: You don : t mean±o tell mc that you didn't take any notice if he told you you had cancer! Witness: He told mc I was very ill, anyway, and he did mc a terrible lot of good. (Loud laughter). I don't think for one moment he meant seriously that 1 had cancer. He did not impress: mc. The Judge: At all events, your liver is all right now? —Yes. The Judge: Well, that's the main thing. (Laughter). Energy From Machine. George Ernest Billing, electhical engineer, Ponsonby, gave expert technical evidence concerning the Abrams machine. He did not agree with Dr. Bruce Mackenzie that no energy came through the machine. A Doctor's Testimony. Wiliiam Pettit, medical practitioner, Auckland, said he was an M.8.,' Ch.B., of Otago University. He was not a member of the B.M.A. owing to their opposition to public lecture work. Since 11)19 he had been practising in Auckland as a general practitioner. He first heard of the Abrams method through friends and patients who had been to Dr., Dundas Mackenzie. At that time witness did not know Dr. Mackenzie. In consequence of what he was told, he rang up Dr. Mackenzie, and went to see him. At that time witness regarded the method with suspicion, indeed, with opposition. Although still a sceptic, he went to see Dr. Mackenzie because he was ill and could not carry on his practice properly as a resultr Dr. Mackenzie gave him every possible facility for investigation, lending witness text books and allowing him the freedom of his examination room. Dr Mackenzie allowed witness to see his patients and to examine them. After what he had seen, witness underwent treatment himself. He was suffering from inflammation of the right hip bone. This had hindered his work, since he could not walk without pain, and the trouble was becoming more severe. Prior to this, witness had consulted three brother practitioners. He got no relief from them. It was in August, 1922, that he went to see Dr. Dundas Mackenzie, He had treatment for about three weeks, and the results was that the condition of the hip was about 50 per cent better, and he was enabled to carry on his work. The current was projected into his body over the affected joints, The treatment lasted for about an hour at a time. AVitness read the authorities on Abrams after receiving so much benefit. He then came to the conclusion that he must either continue to use inferior methods, send many of his patients to Dr. Mackenzie, or else learn the method himself. He therefore determined to go to America. Far from placing any obstruction in witness' way, Dr. Mackenzie did everything possible for witness and sent a cable to Dr. Abrams to take witness into the clinic. In December, 1922, witness went to the Abrams clinic and met Dr. Abrams. s No man could meet him without realising that he was a man of outstanding genius. "Treated with Eminent Success-" Continuing, Dr. Win. Pettit said he remained at the Abrams clinic about two mouths. Over 50 practitioners were attending the clinic 'at that time. They were all either qualified medical- practitioners with the M.D. or were practitioners who could practice surgery. Witness was satisfied with what he observed. Witness gave a great deal of technical evidence. Incidentally, he mentioned that the radiophone was used for recording reactions. If cancer was

placed in the machine there was a change in the tone every six seconds. Witness saw a large number of cases diagnosed, treated and checked up by clinical methods. They were treated with eminent success. In one case witness saw a man suVering from cancer successfully treated. The man —a doctor—came to the clinic almost dying, and after six weeks' treatment he was so much better that he was going back to his practice. At that time there were many virulent attacks in the newspapers on the Abrams system. Henry Ford's paper had made virulent attacks, stating things that could be proved to be untrue. Witness wrote to Henry Ford jibout the matter, but Ford was prevented from getting the letter. Mr. Meredith protested that this was not evidence. Witness returned to New Zealand in April, 1023. and since then had been practising the Abrams method in addition to his ordinary practice. Witness had had the machine under constant observation since he came back from America nearly two years ago. Every month the results showed more conclusively the beneficial results of the system. It was not infallible, of course. No diagnosis method was infallible. Dr. Wm. Pettit produced the diagnostic and oscillocast, and gave detailed evidence of a technical nature at some length. (Proceeding.)