PRESBYTERIANISM.

Auckland Star, Volume XIX, Issue 222, 20 September 1888, Page 8

PRESBYTERIANISM.

ITS PRESENT POSITION IN THE

WORLD.

By a curioue coincidence the Pan-Anglican and Pan-Presbyterian assemblies held their meetings at the same time in London. The Pan-Presbyterian meets every four yeajg and the Pun-Anglican every 10. A representative of the "Pall MallGazette"waitedon the organising secretary of the Pan-Presby-terian assembly to hear something of the present position, ol Presbyterianism in the world, In the course of the interview an eminent professor of the Free Church joined in the conversation, which went pretty much' ak follows :—r ■, ,".■'■ ■." "■ " :'.|1' '"•.y'.'* , '■■• )

' How do you estimate Ihe present numerical strength of the Presbytenan world V 'We aie.20,000,000 strong. That is to say, there are 20,000,000 of men, women, aud children who belong as adherents to Presbyterian churches.' I From our last numbering of our people we find that there are about 23,000 ordained pastors, and on outchurch .rolls there are nearly 4,000,Q00 of communicants. Estimating five adherents to one communicant, and about 800 persons in connection with each congregation, that brings out the total pretty near 520,000,000;' 'Of whom I supp se the majo.ity are Scotch or of Scotch descent ?'

'Largely, but not exclusively, as some seem to think. There are representatives here from a million and a-quaiter Presbyterians in the German Empire. We have aloo representatives from France, and there are Presbyterian churches in all lands, from Huseia to /apan. Bub, roughly spunking, Presbyterianism is the religion of two races, the Scotch and the Dutch. As •the Irish have carried the Roman faith over the new world, so the Scotch and Dutch have *et up Presbyterian churches whereever they have gone.' . 1 And where have they gone ? The Dutch, I suppose, are chijfly in South Alr.ca?' , . , .

' There are many in South Africa, where the Boars—who have a representative at this syuod — have the polity and much of the e-pirit of the Covenanters, but there are many alsc in the United States. I should say roughly that of our twenty millions, eighteen millions . are either Scotch or Dutch, or of Scotch or Dutch descent. '

•And all your churches, of whatever nationality, hold the unity of the Presbyterian faith ?' •'*, •

' Yee, to a moct surprising extent.'.,- We stand on the ancient ways. We hold the five great, articles of the Westminster Assembly, We have the same policy, and we have even in small things, without any concert or communication, arrived at the sains results.' 'For instance?'

• Well, take for instance the curious agreement among all our churches that: ihree or four gears' training in divinity is sufficient thoroughly to equip a man for the Presbyterian ministry. .'■■" In all countries where our theological colleges have been established our people setim simultaneously to have* arrived at the same conclusion. In exeat thing*., ac in small, we are of one mind.' :. > , ' . "y't

• Then you have no burning questions to c uact your peace ?' i ' None. Some years ago there seemed a danger that some of bur ministers in" Ht)l« lipd would be carried away by what is called the higher criticism, and that- disputes would distract our churches about the autheniiciiy andauthbrityof theScripturea; but the danger passedj and at present we: have no controversy imperilling our faith.' ■' No downgrade controvftrsyufcuoh as dißtresses ''Mr, Spurgeon 1 Ritualist extravagances V "•No. ' We find sometiraesthat out*:young students arefincined to dally with these rationalißtics peculations. But that which saves them and keeps the church true to great doctrines of grace is the practical experience of direct work with Binful, struggling, sutforing men and wobaen. Fine theories, pretty and philosophical though" they look in the closet, do not stand the test of being put to the saving of souls. It needs a longer rope than philosbphio Bationalisni to reach down to the sunken strata of lost humanity.' -.■.:■..■-..■ 'Then your Robert Blsmeres—■—-' 'Very soon find what Robert Elsmere would have found if he had lived long enough, that nothing but the ddctrines of grace have grip enough in them to save men and women from their sins.'

'But does the Zeitigoist really pass over you, then, as the angel of death passed over "the ljouaea sprinkled with the blood of the Haschal sacrifice V- .

' Hardly. It affects us, I suppose, in deEiving us of members who'would otherwise aye joined u6.r But; within,'the churches there is not much trace of the destructive influence of modern unbelief. If visible ab all, it shows itaelf most in the pulpits of t.heEßtabliflhed Church of Scotland. In the voluntary churches it is felt rather than seen in,-, the of that spirit of absolute dogmatic certainty which once prevailed.' f But your Westminster Confession ?' ■f We hpl.i to ib Btill, but the interpretation is modified, no doubt, by; the spirit of'tue time, and there is not a grim ineisbehce'upon the accepianoe of all the doctrines by every communicant. Whether or not the communicant-: interprets the doctrine of eovetti/nty and prei stination in the extreme'Caivinistio senwe.br whether he regards it as merely a form of expresaing a jOOhviotiohtbabthe universe is gOvernea by a Divine plan, is a mutter left to the individual conscience.' ' , ' • VBuppofte'/ttia^ 1^ ariply to be admitted ana 'tejii^ydu' that t cannot 'ac'dtip't the limited theor^ or the Atoiiemenb,; and that my views as to,predestination and free will are Aiminifvn rather ilsan Cfltlviuisricr" ■"- ' -■■• 'For my part;,' said one of the Doctors of Divinity, '-.I would lidmibyou to membership provided you were a believer in Christ, and were in'consciopß fellowship with theChristipn members pf my, church.', , .> 'But you would not, I suppoae, accept me iM were only what you may describe as an uhconsciouH Christian, and rejected the supernatural while anxiously endeavouring to live: the Christ-life ancl do the work -of Christ?' :.'.You,would not,want; to join a church wlipse fellowship is .baaed upon a common belief in the reality of the supernatural f ,' That (defends upon whether the communion attracts me, by its service for man I and by its practical. xealisatlon of the | Christian ideal of sacrifice.^ But .suppose | that i was born in'the orthodox faith; join your church, and afterwards find miracles and the supernatural incredible, while still wishing to work with you, would you turn me out?' .' 'I am,afraid/ said one-of my interlpcu-, toi's, 'that we should. But we are very much more considerate to all those'exceptional cases than -we used to be, andprol viding you kept your views to yourself, and did not -blazon them abroad, we should leave fcp your own conscience the responsibility of remaining within "the pal© of the church.' \ , . ■■• Then you still maintain the doctrine c| reprobation?' ■ i .' Reprpbfttioh is riot a doctrine so much j as an inference from the- doctrine of preordinationi and it has been grossly buries-, qued. Hudibiras, for instanoe, fathered upon ne the hideous calumny of sayingthat there are infanta panting in eternal torment We never said anything so revolting. * Nor do we believe that the souls of infants are lost,' 'You doi believe in everlasting punish.ment V - • We sea no Scriptural warrant for assertiing that there is § state after deftt'b/ ■■ -■■ ■• ■■ ■ ' . . ■

• And you hold on to the strict keeping of the Sunday?1 f ; . : 'Certainly. Presbyterians constitute the vanguard of the Christian host charged with the defence of the Day of Rest.' & ['■; 'In church government are you not weakening into Congregationalism ?' ' Not in the:' least. The Congregationalists are moving rather in the dirfiction of Presbyterianism.1 'In one sense yes. The county associations and Congreeational unions approximate to your synoss and general assemblies. But your synods no longer interfere as they used to do between mimstors and congregations. A congregation calls whom it pleases, and, although you still moderate upon the call, it is understood that the Church Assembly does not interfere.* ". ' That' is partially true. Bui we do not regard^ that as : approximating to Congregationalism. - The' right of appeal to the church courts in all cases of dispute between minister and congregations regains. That isXhe distinctive marh; of Pre'sbyterianism, as' against Cpngregationaltßm, as the refusal to repognise bishops is our "mark as. against Episcopacy.' : . ; ' Then on the whole you are hopeful ?'• 'Yes, and confident. We are facing the problems of the new time with the old faith.'