PARLIAMENTARY.

Auckland Star, Volume IX, Issue 2609, 17 August 1878, Page 2

PARLIAMENTARY.

FEOM OUR SPECIAL REPORTER

(BY STAR SPECIAL . WIRE),

WELLINGTON, this <W BAD ACOUSTICS OF THE HOUSE ' During the afternoon sitting yektetiLthere were many complaints as to bad &af ing. Mr Gisborno was giving notice n* some motion which was quite inaudible in the gallery when several members bawilj out "We cannot hear." Mr Fox wa« shortly after warmly complaining of thf petty .ceremony instituted by the Secretary of the Post-office, Mr Grey, in abolishing the franking of Parliamentary papers, when Mr' Fisher called out that he could not hear a word. Shortly after which Mr Barff again threatened to put into force the right to have a member's words taken down HOLIDAY TO RAILWAY OFFICIALS Mr Manders gave notice of motion for giving a fortnight's holiday every year to railway officials. '

ORDER OF PETITIONS,

The report of the Classification Committee gave rise lo the most important discussion. The report recommended a revival of theold standing orders, which preclude the presentation of petitions for money or land unless approved by the Government. Mr Pyke here protested that he had not heard' a word of what was said, whereupon Mr Wood called, "Speak out." The House then proceeded to discuss the question of the petition of Charles T. Wing, ■which the Committee on Classification of Petitions reported aa being disrespectful to ;~iJie House, and coming within the terms of the rule precluding direct requests for land of money, —Mr Fitzherbert delivered a strong speech against petitions being admitted which made requests for money or land SIR GEOKGE GREY AND HIS COLLEAGUE AT VARIANCE. 1...J

Mr Sheehan followed in the same strain*. ' He said influences had been broughtSito bear on petitions in the lobbies, which reminded him of a highwayman demanding "Your money or your life."—Sir George Grey surprised everybody by stating that there had been no consultation amongst the* Cabinet on the question, but he entirely disagreed with his honourable colleague; He argued that the Crown being the fountain of mercy ought not to prohibit any petition. During the proceedings last night, an equally singular scene occurred^' When, after Mr Stout had made a strong speech against Mr PC olles ton's motion in favour of a deaf and dumb asylum, Sir George Grey came into the House, and said a sum "would be placed on the estimate* for the purpose. Mr Swanson said if petitioners could only petition the Bouse by consent of the Government it would result in lobbying influences. TTnder the present system, the Government "would be relieved of the re-, spon&ibility. He had frequently seenjusV petitions thrown out. If only those petitions* were received which were recommended by * the Government, it "would result in the - petitioner who failed using the every. posfinJe means to oust the existing Ministry ' in order to substitute one which "would favor - their petitions. The public did not know" the proper form of petitioning the House. The difference between the plan proposedby the Classification Committee, and the existing form -was nearly that between tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee. Petitioners were wont, said Mr Swanson, amidst great laughter, to concludes their petitions with " and your petitioners, will ever pray," but if their petitions were excluded as proposed they would there cease. He contended that the public werei / practically ignorant of the form of petition- :' iug the House. The fault of rejection'of - petitions lay with members who introduced irregular petitions. He would like to see a rule limiting the period within "which petitions migiifc be introduced, and compelling petitioners to petition early in the session unless the cause of action arose' during the session. ', i Mr-fimven said petitioning was~becoming a trade. Major Atkinson said the standing order . had originated in the pride of Parliament, ij which considered itself the great helper of , all wrongs. They practically said to petitioners "tell us what you are suffering^; from, but do not presume to prescribe a;; remedy." It appeared to him that the time .'"■' for that had passed. Mr Bowen dividedtheHouse on the question, when the report of \ the Committee wa.-s sustained by 51 to 8. • MRMcLEAN. ■ :-■■■■ -X There appears to be some this session to sit on Mr McLean. Mr Thomson to-day objected to the "word "cGn~ fiscation" iv the motion relative to Otago ■" land fund, and the Speaker struck out the obnoxious word; shortly after which Mr Cutteu said Mr McLean had no right to ask the Government for reasons, a novel political dogma, which elicited amusement. '% PUBLICAN'S LICENSE FEES./ - Sir Robert Douglas presented a petition; from settlers north of Auckland prayingiorthe construction of a railway northoo p Auckland. "":/. Mr JTobbs presented a petition iroiaY'' Thomas Donnelly. rt Mr Tolfi presented a petition from sixty Licensed Victuallers in Auckland, praying '• for a reduction in license fees and the abolition or. the rule compelling them to keep lamps outside their houses at night. • \ • Mr Moss presented a petition from the/ Licensed Victuallers of Parnell, stating that the license fees charged were much higher • than in other parts of the colony, and asking that they be assimilated to other : parts. TRIENNIAL PARLIAMENTS. Di" Wallis gave notice of a bill to provide for triennial elections of the House of Representatives. . ■■■' Mrßarffgavo notice of a bill to amend the "Education Act, 1877." Mr Pyke presented a petition from Roman Catholics of Otago and Southland in favour - ; of aid to their schools. Mr Reeves has given notice of an antiChinese motion. SIR JULIUS VOGEL. In replying to a question by Mr McLean relative to the appointment of agents under the Superscription of Stock Act, the • Premier said the Government had information at that time that Sir Julius Vogel ~* intended to resiga and go into something-, else. Mr Larnach, Sir P. Julyan, Mr Sergeant, and Mr Ornauuy, therefore, were appointed. " ■■.■■■■■: ■ •: ... OTAGO RAILWAYS.; ' In answer to Mr Pyke, Mr MacandreW said that it would be made known in the Public Works Statement whether . the"Government intended to have a surtfey made of the. line from the Clyde to Cromwell and Lake Wanaka. THE CANTERBURY DOMAINS.Replyinsc to Mr Be wen, the Hon. K. Stout said'(hut the whole sum voted for the domains of Canterbury had been paid to the local governing bodies, but he could riot say whether it had bren properly expended/ by them. SEAL FISHERIES. In reply to Mr Feldwick, Mr MacanoW said the Fisheries Bill about to be brought in would provide for the protection of the ' seal fisheries. . ■/>«. .'. ■"■ ; VOLUNTEER FORCE. Replying to Mr Feldwick, Mr BalTance said the Government were taking steps to ;< . re-brganise the Volunteer Force. • "I, - - SPEAKER'S SALARY. , .."''' There was a long and rather acrimonious^^ , debate on the item, £2GO increase in ■«s';.£ Speakers salary. Mr Saunders calliu| upon ,^|. Membeis to keep their hustings pledgesiOi q ecomonny. Mr Barton said he knew cICTKS;,. & who received as much as the Speaker sottice for five months in tlieyear. Mr Barton: Wen were they to regard the Speaker as-a -row that, blooms only in summer.—Mr BallapOß.. . , argued that Speakers in the n^gkbounng colonies were better paid. Mr Hodgmkson contended that other colonies paid ex- _ ■travagaptly.—Mr Sheehan took .exception - .

to the remark that other men would (ake the Speakership at the salary. He knew men who would occupy the ministerial benches at a reduced salary, but they would be dear at the price. The item was carried. PAYMENT OF MEMBEKS. Mr Taiaroa, a Maori member, threw a shell amongst the would-be economist by moving that the whole £21,575 be struck out. He said they ought to begin at home in these matters. Tin's was negatived by forty-seven to seventeen. —Mr Sauuders ! moved that the amount be reduced by £5,574, making the honorarium £150.— Sir George Grey said the Govern- 1 ment had frequently affirmed the ?rinciple of payment of members, t was an ancient English custom. Many believed without payment of members a large number of desirable men would be excluded from the House and leave the legislation in the hauds of the wealthy classes, and all experience shewed that that class invariably legislates fov its own interests. The Government would have been inclined to introduce a bill this session, but as an approach to this £200 had been placed on the estimates, the question was whether £200 was Bufficient. The Government thought it better to leave that question to be dealt

with by the new Parliament. Neither education nor necessity had ever qutitificd him to judge of these matters. He had never known what it was to want money, therefore, would much prefer to leave the matter to be settled by the new Parliament ; but if the amouut was too small they might increase it by special votes. Be believed it to be a fair amount. (Crica of " question"). Sir George Grey spoke with more force than on any occasion previously during the session. Taiaroa's motion was negatived on the voices. A division was demanded. During the interval there was a scene of great animation in the House, and it was evident members took more real interest In this question than any other during the session. Little knots were collected in every part of the House, engaged in earnest discussion. On the question again being put, the noes gave out no uncertain sound, and the motion was negatived by 41 to 19. Mr J. E. Brown proposed that the ten members of the Legislative Council residing in the city of Wellington should receive no honorarium, whioh would reduce the amount by £2,500. Mr Moss in a sarcastic speech criticised this Artemus Ward style of sacrifice. He asked Mr Brown if he would agree to a further reduction of £3,570 by striking off the honorariums of nineteen gentlemen who walked into ayes looby on the last motion. Mr Brown replied that lie did not think the forms of the House would admit of such a motion. A Voice : We can suspond the standing orders. The Chairman : Order, order. Mr Brown : When fete present motion has been dealt with we can deal with yours. Mr Sheehan said there were social reasons, which need uot be discussed, why Wellington members were eutitled to honorariums. Mr Moss objected to the phrase "expense of members," and said he would vote for "payment," Ho had eoasulted his constituents on the question, and they favored his views. He did not believe there was a constituency in the colony which would not support the payment of members if the question was fairly placed before them. It was a pity that members were placed in the invidious position of votiug their own salaries. He would like to see a bill introduced to place matters on a permanent basis. Mr Hursthouse said lie had not «one iuto the Ayes lobby to seek popularity ; his popularity did not rest on what he did in the House. (Some members, who were evidently thinking of the triumphal arch business, here laughed heartily). As a working man's candidate, he could not afford to attend parliament without remuneration. He thought it members were to be paid the money should be subscribed by their constituents (load cries of "No! No !"). Mr Hursthouse, whose mind -was evidently still running on that arch, went on to say they were goiisg to tear down everything. The discussion here degenerated into a general squabble over tfao question, and Mr Brown ultimately withdrew his amendment. The whole exhibition was most humiliating. The honorariums were passed. SIR W. MABTIN'S PENSION. A long discussion occurred on the question of Sir W. Martin's pensiond. Sir George Grey in moving the pension said Sir W. Martin received for some time £1,000 a year. He had to perform duties which entailed great wear and tear of the mind and body, and hi 3 health had been much impaired. Sir W. Martin would be entitled to £500 a year; the next Chief Justice who retires would receive £750, v.iiilo the other judges would get £500. Mr McLean saifl Sir W. Martin had been all these years satisfied with his pension, and if the Government considered him entitled to any sum they should put a sum on the estimates. Mr Bowen strongly supported a pension of £500. It would not be creditable to the colony that a gentleman who had occupied the position of first Chief Justice should have a pension only a little over £300. Sir W. Martin had attainments beyond Ms legal knowledge, was a great philologist, whose ability was acknowledged in reference to the South Sea Island dialects. His special knowledge had been very useful in England enabling scientists to discover connections between the different races of the South Sea Islands. Max Millie r had expressed his hiah appreciation of Sir W. Martin's service.

Mr Swansou hoped the House would set its face against the system of increasing pensions every session. Lobbying had been going on respecting " this old gent's pension" for several days past, and several other Tite Barnacles were now clung on his skirts. If a man. deserved well of the country let a lump sum be voted for_ him, and invested, so as to give him certain interest.

Sir George Grey said neither Sir William Martin nor auy of his friends has had any communication with the Government respecting this matter. He (Sir George Grey) never told what he proposed to do. He never asked any member for it, and never authorised any member to ask for the vote. Money was a matter of indifference to Sir William Martin, and he (the Premier) could not say that he would accept it. He merely asked, the House to vote this in recognition of Sir William. Martin's services. The item passed.

BELLAMY'S,

There was a most humiliating scene in the House least night, when the item " Bellamy's," on account of establishment, £250, discussed. Mr Fox said the place "\v as simply a restaurant or private grog shop. Members ought not to guzzle at the expense of their constituents. If present prices did not pay let Bellamys 'charge another three half-penny on beer, and something extra on wine.—Mr Stout said in New South Wales no liquor was supplied to members within the precincts of the House ,>fiply sandwiches and coffee. Here many -Honourable members were observed pulling wry faces, and two went out to get drinks. Mr Stout went on. to say that the true remedy was to abolish Bellamy's. Did any member imagine that tradesmen did work as the|}House was doing..? Did tradesmen go away from their work every half-hour to some public-honse and take a drink ? Yet that was the case in the House. (Oh, oh.) Mr Sheehan said he would support the item. In the Auckland Provincial Council when there was no Bellamys the whipshad to search club and public-houses at intervals dur[ ingdebatesin order to getniembersnpfor division. It there were no Bellamy's members "would make one for themselves. The membeTs of this House were not free from the ordinary frailties of humanity. (Sarcastic " No, no," and a voice, ."Oh, dear, r '°» not at all.") He believed the abolition °f Bellamy's would impede business. He sP'-tke from experience, for he hadto keep a

little Belalamy's of his own in the Auckland Provincial Council in order to keep his party from straying away and being absent from divisions. Mr Fox (sotto voce) : That was a \<j y bad school for a young politician^ Mr Wason said it was not s© much the guzzling he objected to as the fearful gorging. There was constant stuffing, morning, noon, and night. There was always a dis gusting odour of game, meat and even onion. (The tone of strong disgust in which Mr Wason uttered the word "onion" elicited roars of laughter.) Then there was the cabbage water faugh. He held in Ms hand the card of Bellamy. On one side was printed a glowing advertisement about the quality of wine and spirits. H3 would leave the Native Ministers to judge of those. But on the other side, there was full board per week, £2; lunch and dinner, £1 12s; breakfast and dinner, £1 15; dinner only, £1 ss. Was not this a pretty state of affairs? There was no good hotel accommodation in Wellington. The days when hon. members had to buy and cook their own chops had passed away. He' thought this subsidy unnecessary.

Mr McLean said the last time he was in Sydney he had dinner with excellent tipple in Bellamy. Mr Fox said they ought to introduce the system of the United States where nothing but tea and coffee was drunk Avithin the precincts of the legislative buildings. He attributed bad legislation to excitement caused by drinking in Bellamy. Mr "Wood here endeavoured to throw oil on the troubled waters." He thought they were wasting time. (No no, and question). Mr Wakefield thought the prices should be increased.

The item was retained by 29 to 22. The other legislative items passed, the whole sum, £391,597, only being reduced by £250, after a discussion occupying a considerable portion'of two sitting days. SINECURES.

A long discussion took place in the House on the item Examiner of Standing Ordei s on private Bills. Mr Swanson considered this bad because there was nothing to do. The item was retained.

On the item sub-libraian, there was another hot wrangle. Mr Swanson objected to the term " sub," because probably some other swell, who was called librarian, got the money for doing nothing, while the sublibrarian did all the work. Item passed.

BELLAMYS.

General disgust is expressed in the lobbie.3 to-day over the discussion last night, especially at vote in aid 6i Bellamys. It is said the House committee found a balance of £800 to credit of the establishment at the opening of the session if the money could be collected. One lobby on dit is that Mr Macfarlane says he would take over_ and boss Bellamys without subsidy as a private spec, and sees hi_ way to make a thousand a year clear. PEIVATE CLAIMS.

Mr Hobbs presented a petition from Thomas Barnaby, of Pukehohe, Auckland, asking for redress for a deduction made by the District Engineer on timber supplied by him to the Government.

Mr Chamberlain moves in the Council on Tuesday that a return of the surveys;' of Kaipara and Helecsville railways be printed. Mr Swanson has given notice to ask the Government whether they have taken any action towards the settlement of the claim of Mrs Eliza Neurant, and if not weather they intend to take any action in this matter.

THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

The proceedings in the Legislative Council were not very important. Colonel Brett kept one attitude during the whole sitting. Captain Eraser's " Hear, hears " were few and far between and given in low tones. There was a touch of the pathetic when Colonel Whitmore described the immense amount of work done by the Government Representative in the Council. When moving the Executives Councillors Bill he enlarged greatly on this, and said it was more than one mortal man could reasonably be expected to do. He did not refer to the physical work, though that was very large. No, ft was the vast mental strain that told. This drew the sympathy of his whole audience, especially when the hon. Colonel put his hand to his head. Even Dr. Pollen opened his eyes and smiled approval, and other former Ministers energetically exclaimed " hear hear." Dr. Pollen himself spake in favour of the bill, and .waving his indispensable penholder, expatiated on the bad way Ministers were generally treated by an ungrateful public. The learned doctor made a joke that, alas, was only audible to four Councillors immediately surrounding him, but as Sir Dillon Bell was one of the fortunate four, and praised the doctor tor it it must have been a good one. At any rate, those who had not heard it looked enviously toward^ those who had, Avhich the lucky quartette treated as another joke, and laughed again. Sir Dillon, sustained by Hall's *' hear, hears," slated demagogues generally, and strongly condemned a recent series of articles on the Civil Service. He himself thought that Ministers and Civil Servants generally were actual martyrs to duty, and this he said from his own long experience. Mr Waterhouse though there was not so much suavity in words when there were two Misistera in' Council, and when there was only one "too many cooks," &c. There was more pathos when Colonel Whitmore, answering an objection made,. said he would allow the Bill to lapse, and hinted something about resigning, the room echoed with "No, no," and Captain Fraser brought out a very sonprous "Go on." The Captain strongly advised the Colonial Secretary when assisted to hit back again, this he assured him he had found to be an infalliable remedy for hypercritieisrn. The gallant colonel defended the Civil Service, and while not believing it to be- perfect said it would compare favourably with any Civil Service in the world, and he, therefore, strongly deprecated the recent articles on the Service. The cheering was loud and long when Sir Dillon Bell assured the Colonial Secretary he had mistaken the feeling of the Council. Mr Waterhouse thought that the colonel, from his military instances, was too ready to pitch into anyone straight away without staying to see if they were friends of foes. At last the second readiug was carried amidst great applause.

REV THOMAS BUDDLB'S LECTURE OST "CREDULITY AND SCEPTICISM.""^ Owing to the inclemency of the weather, Mr Buddies lecture on "Credulity and Scepticism was not largely attended. .Col. Haultain occupied the chair, and called upon Rev. R. Taylor, who offered a prayer. The choir then sang •'Can I forget the Valley r The chairman, in his'few introductory remarks, said that all who knew the lecturer were perfectly aware of his ability and he felt convinced that those present would have an instructive and edifying lecture. Air Buddie then proceeded with his lecture, whica evidenced a large amount of stuay and careful research, and altogether, in the space of two hours, wa3 an able de^enco qc the commonly-received principles of Christianity. His subject embraced two extremes : Credulity, believing without evidence ; and Scepticism, doubting everything without faith. The lecturer described the difference between these extremes with scholarly skill, and showed that Christianity was based upon, belief, founded upon sufficient evidence. The character of Harrington, depicted m Heniy Hoe-era' "Eclipse of Faith," a book whion wasrecommended to young men. showed the unhappy conditou of a man without faith. A number of sceptics were successively referred to al3O credulous sects, the dogmas of which could not be accepted without a large amount of. credulity. Tho lecturer successively reviewed the particular tenets of Catholicism, Tractiaran--sqm Ritualism, Mohammedanism, Mormonism, Spiritualism, &c, and was astonished that persons should allow themselves to be cheated out of cheir common sense by euch absurdities. The lecturer was especially hard upon Kqman Catholics. The story of the discovery or the "Bookof Mormon," by Joe Smith, was graphically told, and modern teachers and writers reviewed, and their teachings exposed, including Parker and Emerson of America and TycdalJ. Huxley, and Newman ot Ireland The "Lost- Tribes," a subiecv ?ppa?e¥tlfr possessing charms for the • credulous, in this colony, was humorously touched upon, creating laughter (A. Voice: "The writer In the Stak, for instance ">. The various forms of reliriouß belief, including their superstitions, i also Pantheism. Atheism, Nationalism Secular- \ I ism, and Materialism, were revealed. He

rusted there were few men to.be found who could look upon this beautiful world, and witness its harmonies and wonders, all bearing the stamp of Divmo -intelligence, ar.d Pay with the gifted Shelley, "There is no God." He instanced Joseph Barker, of Wortley. near Leeds, as a npticable example of a once rel gious man. doubting and descending into blank atheism, and retiring to America, and whoi subsequently thought himself back again into a religious life. He hoped that none of the young men of that Association would cast aside the grand old truths of the Bible for such works a* Darwins Descent of Man, and the fallacies of so-called science. The length of the lecture and the numerous subjects treated, preclude even a fair description of the lecture, which closed with an exhortation to young men. earnestly expresed to stand by the unfailing truths of Scripture, the basis of their faith, assuring them that they form the beat security for their present, and f ature happiness. The lectnre.wag well received and a vote of thanks was carriedby acclamation on the motion of Rev. Allan Webb seconded by MrEwingten. The choir gave "Beautiful Sato/fand the meeting closed in the ordinary way, _______