NO ACTION

Ashburton Guardian, Volume 55, Issue 239, 23 July 1935, Page 3

NO ACTION

SALES OF FRESH MEAT ASHBURTON TRADE CONDITIONS. BUTGHERS ALLEGE UNFAIRNESS. DEPUTATION WAITS ON COUNCIL. STRAIGHT SPEAKING BY MAYOR. There was much straight speaking at the Ashburton Borough Council meeting last evening when a deputation from the Ashburton Master Butchers’ Association waited on the Council to discuss several questions in regal'd to the abattoirs and the control of the sales of meat in the Blorough. The points raised by the deputation were not acceptable to the Council. The Mayor (Mr W. H. Woods) declared that the questions had been talked over for the past two years and the butchers had to be told “plump and plain just where they stood.” The points wefe discussed before the deputation reached the meeting and after a discussion which lasted for over an hour, the deputation left the Council Chambers without anything having been achieved, the Council not carrying on the discussion further. In reply to the Town Clerk’s letter asking them to state particulars of the questions they wished to place before the Council through a deputation, the master butchers of Ashburton wroto that their subjects were (1) Unfair* competition of aiiction rooms selling meat, (2) calling new tenders for slaughtering contract, (3) that a water meter be installed at the abattoirs, (4) that the repayment of the abattoir loan be spread over a longer period, (5) that a master butcher be included on the abattoir committee in an advisory capacity, (6) items affecting abattoirs. The Mayor (Mr W. H. Woods) stated,.in regard to the first item, that complaints had been made against the auction rooms, but Health Department officials inspected the rooms and reported that there was nothing wrong. There was nothing to prevent the rooms selling meat. , Mr J. T. Pratley: Is that permitted in Christchurch? The Mayor: It is in Ashburton and that is all we are concerned with. “Only Displayed Ignorance.” Referring to the second and third items, the Mayor said that these questions were solely for the controlling authority to deal with. In regard to the fourth item, the Mayor said that the butchers only displayed their ignorance of the position. The abattoir loan had been extended for 14 years when the Council’s loans were converted recently, being extended from 1941 to 1955. “In regard to point five,” the Mayor continued, “we have an independent manager and we have found him to be thoroughly satisfactory. It must be clearly understood that we are managing the abattoir for the whole community, and not for the butchers, who are only a small section of the public. The position was forced on us bv the regulations. “We have had this before us in the past and it now looks very much like bickering, and perhaps I could use an even stronger term than that. The butchers have got to be told plump and plain where they stand and where we stand. If it was a complaint that we had received from the butchers, then we could go into it, but there is not one suggestion here that is in the nature of a complaint or that can be construed! as an improvement at the abattoir.

“I feel that they are just overstepping the limit and I am not disposed to allow them to overstep it any further,” added the Mayor. “Have you anything to say before the deputation arrives? If you think I should take up some other attitude, just say so.”

Mr J. Thompson: I thought we had got all this settled long ago. We have acceded to their request to kill hy contract and the best thing to do now is to hear their case and then deal with it. They seem to think that we are here to stop anyone entering into competition with them, but they are barking up the wrong tree, if they think that. Wo must tell them where they get off. Something on Other Side. ■ Mr Pratley: With regard to point one, (it seems to me that the butchers have a complaint there. They are selling under all sorts ot restrictions, but the auction rooms can sell meat as they like, without license. It seems there is something on the other side as well. The trouble arose, perhaps, through too many butchers starting in the town, but we should go into thenrequests and give them our earnest cons id eration. The Mayor: Councillor Pratley has evidently been misinformed regarding the auction rooms not being subject to awards. The butchers made a complaint to Christchurch, not to us, and an inspector from the city came down. As a result the auction rooms were made to comply with the regulations regarding the payment of award wages, so that part of your argument is washed out. It is not a matter foi us, anyway. It is for the legislation and the Inspector of Awards. They are coming to us after having made a complaint to Christchurch and having fallen. They must bo told plainly where they stand. It comes to a suspicion of pin-pricking, when they do these things. Mr E. Buchanan: No one has a monopoly of any business. He instanced the manner in which shop-

keepers were selling lines in which other businesses specialised, and referred to the small goods sold by the grocers. Mr R. Kerr (amid laughter): We are not grocers; we are storekeepers. The Mayor: Before statements like those made by Councillor Pratley are made 'in open council meeting they tehould be verified. Mr Thompson: We have no powers to stop the auction rooms selling? The Mayor; No, none at all. Mr Thompson: Well, that settles it. I am not saying anything about it being fair competition or otherwise; I just want to say that we have no power over it. Mr J. Shaw: We cannot call for tresh tenders for killing till the present contract expires. • The Mayor: They want us to call tenders all over New Zealand, and even then we might get someone we don’t want.

Mr H. R, C. McElrea: The case as stated by the Mayor was in accordance with the facts and it is no good debating it. The butchers are no doubt suffering a good deal of stress through the selling by the auction rooms and the selling that goes on in the country by the farmers. Other shops in the town are being flooded with small goods and the family of butchers has grown. The point is, who is not under some such stress at the present time? Mr McElrea added that in his opinion the Council should desist from giving any further conference in committee, on the question. The public, as the consumers, were interested and should be allowed to judge. A few minutes later* the deputation was announced. It comprised* Messrs E. Jones, W. H. Hunt, G. E. Glossop and W. Donley. Only An Experiment. Mr Jones stated that one of the deputation’s reasons for approaching the Council was the fact that the killing contract expired in October and though they realised that the contract system, had been of great advantage to the butchers, it was only in an experimental stage and there was room for more competition in the calling for tenders for the work. They could find no fault with the aoi k ol the present contractor, but he had probably taken on the work as an experiment, and he had no doubt made good wages at it. Ashburton did not show up favourably with other tovns so far as prices for slaughtering were concerned. The Mayor : Cam you give us those towns. It is no good for you just to say that costs are lower in other towns. We want the evidence that they are. Mr Jones then quoted the figures for three towns, as follow: Oarnaru. Timaru. Ashburton.

These, he said, were the costs to butchers. The Mayor: What about pigs? Mr Jones: I have not got the iiguies for pigs, but I think they compare in the same way. There is no reason why, with the experience we have had, we cannot bring the figures nearer to those of the other towns, lendeis should be called in other places and should be advertised not once but three times. Dealing with item number three, Mr Jones said that the butchers had been paying, up till last year, £9 for water. This year they had been charged £4O, and, naturally, they wondered, why. They thought the amount was exaggerated as far as actual use of water was concerned!. The Mayor: You are comparing it with what we charged! you before? Mr Jones: We estimate wo use about 4000 gallons a week at the abattoir, and that is a conservative figure. Going on to the next item, that regarding the loan, Mr Jones said that the butchers had noticed that the loan had been spread ov'ea* a further period of 20 years, and the interest and sinning fund were all charged to Die abattoir. He did not know much about municipal affairs, but could not 10 sinking fund bo reduced, spread over a longer period? The butchers felt that ,if that were done they would have a chance of reducing their costs a little. Viewpoint Not Seen. Referring to the suggestion that a master butcher should be appointed to the Abattoir Committee, Mr Jones said that the butchers felt that possibly their side of their case, or thenviewpoint, was not seen. The Mayor: That is what you are here for, to give us your viewpoint. Mr Jones: Wo felt that a master butcher could possibly help the committee, which otherwise could not bo advised as well as it might be. ieio are two master butchers attached to the Christchurch committee and the arrangement is working well there. o are your biggest customeis at . 10 abattoir, and a master butcher might put in a word in .time and save conferences with the butchois. “Now we come to this vexeu. question of the competition by the auction rooms,” ho said. “We do not know what assistance you can give us. It is a serious matter with _ us. Our returns have dropped considerably. This auction-room stunt was started as a draw to attract people to the rooms, but there are many things which are sold in the rooms. If they did not soil one piece of meat they would still have their other lines, hut we have only one line. This competition has seriously drained our resources qnd has greatly affected the killings of every butcher. We understand that- a man was refused to sell icecream because the territory he wished to sell in was well served with tlia commodity. There should be some way of stopping others also. The mastei butchers throughout Now Zealand are taking the matter to Parliament. The butcher’s business is such that any Tom, Dick or Harry can do it; anyone can buy sheep and sell the meat and we have got no redress. More cattle have been killed privately tins year than ever before. It has got to the stage where it is going to put some of us out of business altogether. The butchers are the biggest customers of

the abattoir anjd without us you might not have the abattoir. Mi* Hunt spoke on the question of the unfair competition on the part of the Auction-rooms. “We, are ratepayers, are leasing and renting shops —well, it would not look too good to see some of those shops standing empty,” he continued. “It seems strange that the Health Inspector at Christchurch was able to stop this trading there. It seems that there are different laws for different centres. The Master Butchers’ Association is under the impression that lots of the items put into the abattoir balanc’e-sheet were put there to make the costs look as big as possible. Debits of 1919, before none of us were in business, were shelved and now are brought forward when we weio beginning to show a credit in this account. One member of the Association said, ‘Do we get this place free when we have paid it off?”’ Mr Glossop referred to the killing of pigs at places other than the abattoir, and said that he had insisted that everything he handled in his shop should be killed at the abattoir.

Mr Thompson: Do you know of any butcher who buys these pigs? Mr Hunt: Yes, they do buy them, so long as they are passed by the Inspector. Mi* McElrea said he knew a good deal about the troubles and difficulties of butchers. He commended the deputation on taking the question in open meeting! as they would receive the best of assistance from a fair-minded public. The point he wished to refer to was that of unfair competition. He wondered if it could be got round some way, though no doubt the butchers tried to do that. Would the deputation think it was better for the butchers to do their killing at the Fairfield freezing works instead of at the abattoir ? Position in the City. Mr Hunt: Till the abattoir was erected that was where the butchers did their killing, but I cannot give you any figures as to the way it was carried out. Ido know that thcio was recently strong opposition to slaughtering at the Islington works. Butchers went there for their killing because they could get better facilities, such as free chilliug space. Mi* McElrea: Is it not a fact that the Islington works are Filling 1200 sheep a day besides beei and poik foi the butchers? Mr Hunt said that there were a number of butchers in Christchurch so troubled by the depression that they were taking their requirements from Islington. Mr McElrea: Well, wouldn’t, you call that unfair competition? Mr Hunt: Of course, it is. But the men are hard up against it, and Uiey don’t get any of the by-products. It was a great enticement for the companies co get this killing for the byproducts, which are bringing good prices. The carcases are delivered to the butchers’ doors, and they can get any part of tho carcase they want. Mr McElrea: Well, couldn’t Fairfield do that? Mr Hunt: They may be able to do so, but there is very little beef lulled there. Mr McElrea-: Then it would not be wise to attach any importance to the story that is going about that the master butchers are negotiating wit i the Fairfield works to have their lu ing done there? . . , Mr Jones: That story is absolutely without foundation; it is a wild rumour. There has been no thought ol the butchers leaving the abattoir Mr McElrea: You see how things travel round! . , Mr Glossop: The companies deal with tho butchers as wholesalers. Mr McElrea: Yet they flood Ashbuiton with their small goods. The Mayor said that one very &&t fying feature about the representations that had been made by the deputation was that there had been abso lutelv no complaint against tne abattoir or the conduct of tho management. The Council was very P hased to know that. It was a fine D rbute to the manager, and it was to the credit of the contractor and the butch ers that there was nothing to complain about. . . “This is a matter attecting tho public interest, and the butchers must understand that the Council is m charge of the abattoir, not lor butchers but in the interests of the health of the whole community, the Mayor said. “We are not permitted to make a profit on the working o the abattoir, but any loss has to ne borne by tho Council, and as soon as the water charges are raised Die butchers come to us and say Unit the charges have been mounted up.

Big Loss to Borough.

“>lt has come to this that the butchers must be told that the Council administers the abattoir m t ic public interest. As far as wo are concernedj it is not n profit-making oon corn. It has been a big loss to this Borough ever since its inception. I can prove that, and I want you to get that distinctly. ! lf one carried the question to its beginning, one would find that the abattoir had to be built because of tlio default of the butcheis in the first instance, for at one time there were a great many complaints against the slaughter yards oi the butchers. “Now, as to the calling of new tenders. There has been no complaint against the present killing, there have been no cut skins, or anything like that, but I would like to tell the butchers that as the controlling body the question of calling tenders is our job, and we are going to deal with it as our job. Whether we call tenders in the far centres I cannot tell you, but whatever is done it will be with a full sense of our responsibility to the public health.” Dealing with the question of the water supply, the Mayor said that as far back as 1920 there was a deficit of £6OB in the abattoir account, and that had been carried on without ono penny of interest being charged on it. Now that the butchers were on a better footing the Council thought it could put the matter on a better basis. It bad not been done hastily and the Council held that it was a fair and reasonable charge to make. Whether the Council would instal a meter he could not say. A meter would cost more than £25. The amount the

ratepayers had lost over the abattoir exceeded all question of an excessive charge for the water. “I make no bones about saying that,”* the Mayor added. “I don’t admit that there is any overcharge on the part of the Council. Think about these things, will you, and take a fair view of it, and you will come to no other conclusion than that to which the Council has come.

“With regard to the loan, ,without any) suggestion from the butchers or anyone else, this lias been extended for a further term of 14 years, without a penny as cost to the abattoir, not even for the printing of the debentures. The abattoir has been very fortunate in being under local body control in that the loan could be converted as has been done. Mr Hunt has raised the question as to whom the abattoir will belong after it has been paid off. It will remain the property of the Council in trust for the community. Twenty years hence the loan will come due, and it will have been running for 40 years. That is as reasonable a spreading as one . could ask for.

“I would like to say this, too, and it is a point the butchers have been losing sight of, that the Borough ratepayers had to go security for the •abattoir, and they carried it on from the start. When there was a deficit, it was paid out of the rates of the Borough, and far from any criticism being levelled at heavy expenditure, there is a suggestion that it was done for a purpose, thoffgh it can only have sprung from a want of knowledge. I do want you to remember that we are here to protect the ratepayers, and we are absolutely going to see that it is done.

“I don’t think there is any need for a master butcher to be added to the Abattoir Committee. The butchers may think we do not know .much about the abattoir, but there are members of this Council who can advise on these matters just as well as any master butcher can, and besides we have an impartial manager. There have been no complaints from the butchers, and that disposes of that question. Auction-room Wages. The Mayor went on to discuss the subject of unfair competition, and said that 18 months ago the butchers made representations to the Public Health Department in Christchurch, and an inspection of premises was carried out. It was far more intense than was anticipated, and some of tlioso who had shops were put to large expense in making their premises comply with the regulations. That inspection had been made at the specific request of the butchers, and was aimed against the auction rooms. It had been stated that it was unfair trading because the auction rooms did not pay award rates of wages, but the Inspector of Awards at Christchurch came to Ashburton and compelled the payment of award wages. This had nothing to do with the council, and the butchers’ only remedy lay with the Inspector of Awards.

“Can we stop any person from opening a shop?” lie asked. “The fact that the shop is in an auction rooms does not matter. Can you stop one of your employees starting in a shop next door to you? We have no power to stop anyone selling meat when lie is complying with the regulations, and you know that quite well. “One point Mr Glossop mentioned was about the killing of pigs. . This is causing a deal of trouble in many places, and steps are being taken to have it controlled, to make it obligatory that something should be paid for the inspection and passing of the earcase. If the butchers can help us by getting their pigs killed at the abattoir it would help the.-revenue and thereby help the butchers. “It is absolutely wrong for anyone to say that the abattoir is not working at its full, efficiency,” the Mayor said. “I say that it could not be better or more economically conducted than it is at present. Oarnaru and Timaru have been mentioned in comparison with Ashburton, but both those places are much larger than Ashburton. Is it a fair comparison, one of the towns being if not four, times as large as Ashburton ? Can you point out a town of the same size as Ashburton where the costs are better? I venture to say that you can not.

“Here are some figures of killings at the towns you have mentioned, and for 1933:—

“The difference in costs is brought about by the differences in population. “It is our job to see that the abattoir is not run at a loss. We cannot make a profit, but we can’t have a loss. Mr McElrea will do his best to see that it is not a charge on the ratepayers. There have been a number of statements and some adverse criticism outside that can not be borne out by facts, so I have tried to put our side of the case plain. We are not hostile to the butchers. If you have any complaints regarding the working of the abattoir we will' be pleased to receive them and go into them, and we would be pleased to go into any suggestions that were aimed at the better working of tho abattoir. Differences must arise when the council is accused of keeping up tho costs. “There has been a lot of talk about the abattoir in the last two years, and there has been some bickering, so I am glad to have this opportunity of clearing it up,” said the Mayor in conclusion. “I hope that our explanations have been satisfactory and have removed any misconceptions about the working of the abattoir.” Tho deputation thanked the council for its hearing and withdrew. Mr Thompson: Nothing goes like a little plain speaking and commonsense, and they have got it—where the chicken got the axe. Mr S. Mitchell: You certainly told them where they get off the boat.

Cattle .. 0/9 5/9 7/6 Sheep .. lid 9di 1/3 Calves . .. 2/3 1/6 3/-

Tima ru Cattle. Sheep. Lambs. . 3036 22,146 4959 Oamaru . 1909 12,267 1687 Ash burton .. . 1632 8,930 1183